Jesuit superior general: ‘We have formed symbolic figures such as the devil to express evil’

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If accurate, this is a disgraceful interview.

I just can’t understand, as a convert to the faith, the dissatisfaction some catholics feel with long-settled Catholic teaching, or their need to trouble faithful Catholics with such public speculation. What does he think he will achieve other than sow discord and confusion?

I can only hope this is an error with the translation; an excuse we’ve had to use a lot recently.
 
Stat_Crux said:
If accurate, this is a disgraceful interview.

I just can’t understand, as a convert to the faith, the dissatisfaction some catholics feel with long-settled Catholic teaching, or their need to trouble faithful Catholics with such public speculation. What does he think he will achieve other than sow discord and confusion?

I can only hope this is an error with the translation; an excuse we’ve had to use a lot recently.
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I’ll second that hope. Bad translation would be so much better (because that can be corrected more quickly) than bad theology!
 
Jesuits confuse me, I honestly can’t understand how some of them are even Catholic. This is what happens when you educate yourself out of intelligence. If I had read this or been involved with someone like this when I was coming into the Church I would have never come in.
 
i would be interested to hear father pacwa’s opinion on this…
 
brian_custer said:
i would be interested to hear father pacwa’s opinion on this…
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I’d also like to hear Pope Francis’ opinion on this, as the man was his erstwhile superior as head of the Jesuits, and His Holiness has a markedly different view of things on that front.
 
Stat_Crux said:
If accurate, this is a disgraceful interview.

I just can’t understand, as a convert to the faith, the dissatisfaction some catholics feel with long-settled Catholic teaching, or their need to trouble faithful Catholics with such public speculation. What does he think he will achieve other than sow discord and confusion?

I can only hope this is an error with the translation; an excuse we’ve had to use a lot recently.
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I also hope it is an error with translation. If not, we can pray for those who hold to such errors.
 
Heresy heresy heresy everywhere. The church is in a state of apostasy.
 
Theodora said:
Jesus taught that the Devil is a person, and not a symbol of evil.

Along comes the Jesuit superior general of the Jesuits telling his audience that Christians have “formed” the devil as a way of expressing evil.

catholicherald.co.uk/news/2017/06/01/jesuit-superior-general-we-have-formed-symbolic-figures-such-as-the-devil-to-express-evil/
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The Devil is real.

So are demons.

Period.

I do not like one word that this article has quoted.

I wonder whether his words might have been misconstrued. Maybe it is not that he saying that the devil does not exist but that we make other things symbolic of the devil, in the things around us.

Either way, I really hope he didn’t say what the newspaper has reported him to have said. But, considering he is proposing things outlawed by the Church, such as women ministers, it doesn’t look good.
 
Stat_Crux said:
If accurate, this is a disgraceful interview.

I just can’t understand, as a convert to the faith, the dissatisfaction some catholics feel with long-settled Catholic teaching, or their need to trouble faithful Catholics with such public speculation. What does he think he will achieve other than sow discord and confusion?

I can only hope this is an error with the translation; an excuse we’ve had to use a lot recently.
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Not a view of the devil that is unfamiliar to me coming from a Jesuit. I recall hearing similar views from one of my Jesuit teachers in High School.
 
Dorothy said:
I also hope it is an error with translation. If not, we can pray for those who hold to such errors.
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It may just have been a translation error.

It’s not as if Pope Paul VI didn’t address that puerile notion in 1972.

What are the Church’s greatest needs at the present time? Don’t be surprised at Our answer and don’t write it off as simplistic or even superstitious: one of the Church’s greatest needs is to be defended against the evil we call the Devil.​

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It is a departure from the picture provided by biblical Church teaching to refuse to knowledge the Devil’s existence; to regard him as a self-sustaining principle who, unlike other creatures, does not owe his origin to God; or to explain the Devil as a pseudo-reality, a conceptual, fanciful personification of the unknown causes of our misfortunes. When the problem of evil is seen in all its complexity and in its absurdity from the point of view of our limited minds, it becomes an obsession. It poses the greatest single obstacle to our religious understanding of the universe it is no accident that St. Augustine was bothered by this for years: “I sought the source of evil, and I found no explanation.”
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November 15, 1972.
ewtn.com/library/papaldoc/p6devil.htm
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Here’s the text of the question and answer:

Q. Para terminar quería preguntarle si cree que el mal es un proceso de la psicología humana o proviene de una entidad superior.

A. Desde mi punto de vista, el mal forma parte del misterio de la libertad. Si el ser humano es libre, puede elegir entre el bien y el mal. Los cristianos creemos que estamos hechos a imagen y semejanza de Dios, por lo tanto Dios es libre, pero Dios siempre elige hacer el bien porque es todo bondad. Hemos hecho figuras simbólicas, como el diablo, para expresar el mal. Los condicionamientos sociales también representan esa figura, ya que hay gente que actúa así porque está en un entorno donde es muy difícil hacer lo contrario.

I don’t know much Spanish, and Google translate isn’t the best. Any takers for a thorough translation?
 
Havard said:
Here’s the text of the question and answer:

Q. Para terminar quería preguntarle si cree que el mal es un proceso de la psicología humana o proviene de una entidad superior.

A. Desde mi punto de vista, el mal forma parte del misterio de la libertad. Si el ser humano es libre, puede elegir entre el bien y el mal. Los cristianos creemos que estamos hechos a imagen y semejanza de Dios, por lo tanto Dios es libre, pero Dios siempre elige hacer el bien porque es todo bondad. Hemos hecho figuras simbólicas, como el diablo, para expresar el mal. Los condicionamientos sociales también representan esa figura, ya que hay gente que actúa así porque está en un entorno donde es muy difícil hacer lo contrario.

I don’t know much Spanish, and Google translate isn’t the best. Any takers for a thorough translation?
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Yeah you don’t have to know much Spanish to know he’s saying “Symbolic Figures, like the devil” (figuras simbólicas, como el diablo). Seems this isn’t an issue of translation but of theology.
 
My Spanish is not exactly stellar, but here is my translation:
P: Finally, I’d like to ask you whether you believe that evil is a process of human psychology or comes from a higher being.
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R: From my point of view, evil forms a part of the mystery of freedom. If a human being is free, they may choose between good and evil. As Christians, we believe that we are formed in the image and semblance of God, (?) God is free, but God always chooses to do good because He is goodness itself. We have formed symbolic figures, such as the devil, to express evil. This figure is also represented by social conditions, because there are people who act this way [evil] because they are in an environment where it is very difficult to act otherwise.
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I was really unsure around the (?). Anyone who used Spanish more recently than five years ago, you are welcome to verify my translation.
 
sko said:
My Spanish is not exactly stellar, but here is my translation:

I was really unsure around the (?). Anyone who used Spanish more recently than five years ago, you are welcome to verify my translation.
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First, thanks for translating!

Second, it is concerning if this is an accurate initial quote. One of the issues with Liberation Theology is it eventually puts one at odds with God.

I think we need to pray for all involved.
 
I think the greatest crime is not what was said but who said it and how it will mislead the faithful. Oh yes, Satan is real, and he uses us to his advantage, it seems even those in the Society of Jesus. I wonder what Jesus would say, oh wait, I don’t have to, it is all in the Bible.

Of course if you listen to a different Jesuit the Bible is slanted in the gospels to win more and more converts. Some of those things didn’t really happen as the Bible says they did.

Now more and more people will not believe Satan is real, since he is just a “symbol” something we made up to describe evil. Why fear him, why fear demons? Why call on the Blessed Mother or even God since Satan is just a representation of evil. Why have exorcists? Possession cannot be real!!! We can beat evil by ourselves right, I mean since there is no temptor, no deceiver.

I certainly hope the Church responds to this officially!
 
Sadly, the Jesuits are shrinking badly. Google “Jesuits, closings”, or such. They have reduced staff in American “Jesuit” institutions until there is maybe 2 or 3 in a high school, and 4 in a “Jesuit” college. They claim the number of persons entering the Jesuits is increasing, but it is still far far below the replacement level for those who are dying.

Around 1981 St. JP II took direct control of the Order for a couple years. I think they made a few concessions, promised to behave, and unfortunately the pope let them choose their own leaders again. There are some good Jesuits but their ministry gets drowned out by the leaders, and the few hard core dissenters; so they keep shrinking. Orthodox young men are finding orthodox orders.

My guess is in most countries they will pull back to a few major cities, such as NYC and Boston in the US.

What a loss for the Church!
 
commenter said:
Sadly, the Jesuits are shrinking badly. Google “Jesuits, closings”, or such.** They have reduced staff in American “Jesuit” institutions until there is maybe 2 or 3 in a high school, and 4 in a “Jesuit” college.** They claim the number of persons entering the Jesuits is increasing, but it is still far far below the replacement level for those who are dying.

Around 1981 St. JP II took direct control of the Order for a couple years. I think they made a few concessions, promised to behave, and unfortunately the pope let them choose their own leaders again. There are some good Jesuits but their ministry gets drowned out by the leaders, and the few hard core dissenters; so they keep shrinking. Orthodox young men are finding orthodox orders.

My guess is in most countries they will pull back to a few major cities, such as NYC and Boston in the US.
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I think you overstate the issue slightly. Just an example. My Jesuit university alma materhas 38 Jesuit priests on staff including the President. And my Jesuit High School alma mater still has 8 Jesuit priests on staff.
What a loss for the Church
 
Havard said:
Here’s the text of the question and answer:

Q. Para terminar quería preguntarle si cree que el mal es un proceso de la psicología humana o proviene de una entidad superior.

A. Desde mi punto de vista, el mal forma parte del misterio de la libertad. Si el ser humano es libre, puede elegir entre el bien y el mal. Los cristianos creemos que estamos hechos a imagen y semejanza de Dios, por lo tanto Dios es libre, pero Dios siempre elige hacer el bien porque es todo bondad. Hemos hecho figuras simbólicas, como el diablo, para expresar el mal. Los condicionamientos sociales también representan esa figura, ya que hay gente que actúa así porque está en un entorno donde es muy difícil hacer lo contrario.

I don’t know much Spanish, and Google translate isn’t the best. Any takers for a thorough translation?
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Thanks for posting this.
I will try & have someone translate it where I work.

But from what others have posted, I have a feeling that there is not a translation problem at all… :highprayer:
 
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