Jesuit superior general: ‘We have formed symbolic figures such as the devil to express evil’

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friardchips said:
Agreed.

This is why I don’t understand the practice of Exorcists sending those who come to them, to psychologists, as a first base. The first thing apparently to diagnose is mental illness, and while in some cases that might be the case, surely the first thing to diagnose ought to be whether the person is suffering from some form of diabolic infiltration. It is like putting secular health ideas (not all of which are wrong) ahead of the spiritual. Sometimes, people need both, even, but if people go to exorcists, then I think they ought to be seen and diagnosed first as being possessed or not on some level.

Apparently, Exorcists only actually have to perform a very small number of exorcisms in response to the amount of people who come to them and yet this is hardly surprising if the majority of those people are immediately being sent away. Even if a person is helped with some subtle mental problem, doesn’t still negate the possibility of possession, and need for help in spiritual matters. I actually think it is patronizing for people to be turned away when they have come forward saying that they believe Satan is persecuting them in a way that is too much for them - as if they ought to first be disbelieved.

Back on topic, this Archbishop has things the right way around, compared to someone quoted in an article I read the other day in a position of authority, who was reported as stating pretty much the opposite.
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While you are correct, I remember one of the Vatican’s chief exorcists once saying about half the people in the psychiatric ward could probably be healed simply by visiting an exorcist. I got to find that quote…
 
USMC_Convert said:
While you are correct, I remember one of the Vatican’s chief exorcists once saying about half the people in the psychiatric ward could probably be healed simply by visiting an exorcist. I got to find that quote…
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I am sure that is true also…perhaps their relatives do not have solid Christian beliefs.
 
We are all blessed to have Archbishop Charles Chaput (OFMcap 😉 ):cool:
 
USMC_Convert said:
While you are correct, I remember one of the Vatican’s chief exorcists once saying about half the people in the psychiatric ward could probably be healed simply by visiting an exorcist. I got to find that quote…
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That was probably Fr. Gabriele Amorth who died not that long ago. Would be interesting to see that quote.
 
unafraid said:
Archbishop Chaput is clearly responding the that heresy regarding the devil that was unfortunately spewed out by the leader of the Jesuits. Bravo! Archbishop Chaput has always been, for me, a man of great insight, and my favorite American prelate. He always comes right to the heart of an issue, and he is bold in his faith. The Church is lucky to have him. We need many more like him.
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Yes, indeed… The Church is blessed with this wonderful archbishop… Hopefully and prayerfully… a Cardinal at some point soon…
 
It does not have to be all mental illness, or all coming from the devil. It can be both. A person who is mentally ill may be more vulnerable to the devil. One of the effects of the devil could be mental illness.

Historically Christians have identified sources of evil as the World, the Flesh, and the Devil. But even if the Devil can hurt us directly, he also can try to influence us in other ways. Besides totally ignoring the power of the devil, many Christians underestimate the power of the World. It used to be a merely a kind of peer pressure, but now the World is much more powerful, leading us through social media, or “what’s trending now”. This is the devil, working on us indirectly.

But I agree it is prudent for exorcists to work in conjunction with Christians in mental health where possession is a possibility. And mental health professionals should consider an occasional referral to an exorcist for examination.
 
I believe it was Venerable ++Archbishop Sheen who once said the biggest trick the devil plays is to convince the world he does not exist.
 
unafraid said:
Archbishop Chaput is clearly responding the that heresy regarding the devil that was unfortunately spewed out by the leader of the Jesuits. Bravo! Archbishop Chaput has always been, for me, a man of great insight, and my favorite American prelate. He always comes right to the heart of an issue, and he is bold in his faith. The Church is lucky to have him. We need many more like him.
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👍
 
unafraid said:
Archbishop Chaput is clearly responding the that heresy regarding the devil that was unfortunately spewed out by the leader of the Jesuits. Bravo! Archbishop Chaput has always been, for me, a man of great insight, and my favorite American prelate. He always comes right to the heart of an issue, and he is bold in his faith. The Church is lucky to have him. We need many more like him.
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I totally agree!
 
Stat_Crux said:
If accurate, this is a disgraceful interview.

I just can’t understand, as a convert to the faith, the dissatisfaction some catholics feel with long-settled Catholic teaching, or their need to trouble faithful Catholics with such public speculation. What does he think he will achieve other than sow discord and confusion?

I can only hope this is an error with the translation; an excuse we’ve had to use a lot recently.
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👍
 
USMC_Convert said:
Jesuits confuse me, I honestly can’t understand how some of them are even Catholic. This is what happens when you educate yourself out of intelligence. If I had read this or been involved with someone like this when I was coming into the Church I would have never come in.
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👍
 
USMC_Convert said:
Jesuits confuse me, I honestly can’t understand how some of them are even Catholic. This is what happens when you educate yourself out of intelligence. If I had read this or been involved with someone like this when I was coming into the Church I would have never come in.
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I am glad you are in the faith. We need the prayers of strong Catholics.
 
commenter said:
Sadly, the Jesuits are shrinking badly. Google “Jesuits, closings”, or such. They have reduced staff in American “Jesuit” institutions until there is maybe 2 or 3 in a high school, and 4 in a “Jesuit” college. They claim the number of persons entering the Jesuits is increasing, but it is still far far below the replacement level for those who are dying.

Around 1981 St. JP II took direct control of the Order for a couple years. I think they made a few concessions, promised to behave, and unfortunately the pope let them choose their own leaders again. There are some good Jesuits but their ministry gets drowned out by the leaders, and the few hard core dissenters; so they keep shrinking. Orthodox young men are finding orthodox orders.

My guess is in most countries they will pull back to a few major cities, such as NYC and Boston in the US.

What a loss for the Church!
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It is sad to hear about many Jesuits not in keeping with correct theology.
They need our prayers, and also those who are influenced by their errors.

Sacred Heart of Jesus…We love You and we trust You!

Our Lady Seat of Wisdom…Pray for us!
 
Pretty soon some will be like a Protestant I know…

They don’t believe in demons.
They don’t believe in Lucifer at all.
And told me that Hell also does not exist.

I gave them the benefit of the doubt on demons, didn’t really argue Lucifer, but asked them in all sincerity since they claim to be Christian how can they not believe in
Hell, even though Jesus speaks of it himself in the NT. Their reply was, “Jesus just used Hell as a metaphor”. :eek:

Yes, the theological incontinence is real people.
 
There may not be that job title, “at the Vatican”. But there are exorcists in most larger dioceses, presumably the diocese of Rome has one or more priests in that function. The normal practice, when there are many dioceses performing a function (such as exorcism), is to have someone at the central office dioceses or priests can consult with. Someone at the central office likely consults on the kind of training needed for exorcists, so the function exists, regardless of job title.
 
punisherthunder said:
Hell, even though Jesus speaks of it himself in the NT. Their reply was, “Jesus just used Hell as a metaphor”. :eek:
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You can’t even say that.

The head of the Jesuits says the NT is unreliable and open to discernment.

Fr. Abascal: “So then, there would have to be a lot of reflection on what Jesus really said. At that time, no one had a recorder to take down his words. What is known is that the words of Jesus must be contextualized, they are expressed in a language, in a specific setting, they are addressed to someone in particular.”

Rusconi: “But if all the words of Jesus must be examined and brought back to their historical context, they do not have an absolute value.”

Fr. Abascal: “Over the last century in the Church there has been a great blossoming of studies that seek to understand exactly what Jesus meant to say… That is not relativism, but attests that the word is relative, the Gospel is written by human beings, it is accepted by the Church which is made up of human persons… So it is true that no one can change the word of Jesus, but one must know what it was!”

Rusconi: “Is it also possible to question the statement in Matthew 19:3-6: ‘What therefore God has joined together, let not man put asunder’”?

Fr. Abascal: “I go along with what Pope Francis says. One does not bring into doubt, one brings into discernment….”

Rusconi: “But discernment is evaluation, it is choosing among different options. There is no longer an obligation to follow just one interpretation…”

Fr. Abascal : “No, the obligation is still there, but to follow the result of discernment.”

Rusconi: “However, the final decision is based on a judgment relative to different hypotheses. So it also takes into consideration the hypothesis that the phrase ‘let man not put asunder’ is not exactly as it appears. In short, it brings the word of Jesus into doubt.”

Fr. Abascal: “Not the word of Jesus, but the word of Jesus as we have interpreted it. Discernment does not select among different hypotheses but listens to the Holy Spirit, who – as Jesus has promised – helps us to understand the signs of God’s presence in human history.”

Rusconi: “But discern how?”

Fr. Abascal: “Pope Francis does discernment following St. Ignatius, like the whole Society of Jesus: one has to seek and find, St. Ignatius said, the will of God. It is not a frivolous search. Discernment leads to a decision: one must not only evaluate, but decide.”

Rusconi: “And who must decide?”

Fr. Abascal: “The Church has always reiterated the priority of personal conscience.”

Rusconi: “So if conscience, after discernment, tells me that I can receive communion even if the norm does not provide for it…”

Fr. Abascal: “The Church has developed over the centuries, it is not a piece of reinforced concrete. It was born, it has learned, it has changed. This is why the ecumenical councils are held, to try to bring developments of doctrine into focus. Doctrine is a word that I don’t like very much, it brings with it the image of the hardness of stone. Instead the human reality is much more nuanced, it is never black or white, it is in continual development.”

Rusconi: “I seem to understand that for you there is a priority for the practice of the discernment of doctrine.”

Fr. Abascal: “Yes, but doctrine is part of discernment. True discernment cannot dispense with doctrine.”

Rusconi: “But it can reach conclusions different from doctrine.”

Fr. Abascal: “That is so, because doctrine does not replace discernment, nor does it the Holy Spirit.”

cnsnews.com/blog/michael-w-chapman/jesuit-leader-no-one-recorded-jesus-words-marriage-its-nuanced-never-black

magister.blogautore.espresso.repubblica.it/2017/02/22/marriage-and-divorce-the-general-of-the-jesuits-jesus-too-must-be-reinterpreted/?refresh_ce
 
Bottom line is, if you need an exorcism, don’t ask a Jesuit…

But if 100,000 is burning a hole in your pocket they will have a seat for you in class.😃
 
Hoosier_Daddy said:
Bottom line is, if you need an exorcism, don’t ask a Jesuit…

But if 100,000 is burning a hole in your pocket they will have a seat for you in class.😃
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Ever hear the old joke about the Dominican, the Jesuit, and the Franciscan pastors?

The Dominican came by and said, “Great news! Our Parish just made 100% participation in a Novena; everybody entered names at the completion, and the winner won a Ferrari!”

The Franciscan said, “What’s a Ferrari?”

The Jesuit said, “What’s a Novena?”
 
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