Jesus a disciple of John the Baptist?

[thistle]

Jesus was greater than John the Baptist. He was also younger. John said that he was greater. **Jesus was with John the Baptist before he started his own ministry. ** Therefore, he may have been influenced by John’s teachings, before he went out and spread his word.

Do you not get it?? Jesus is GOD.
GOD is not the disciple of anyone.

By the way, when was Jesus with John the Baptist apart from in the womb at the Visitation and the Baptism in the Jordan??

 

[Neil_Anthony]

Do you not get it?? Jesus is GOD.
GOD is not the disciple of anyone.

By the way, when was Jesus with John the Baptist apart from in the womb at the Visitation and the Baptism in the Jordan??

Jesus learned from his parents, and from the rabbis.

 

[NotWorthy]

Jesus learned from his parents, and from the rabbis.

What rabbi’s? It seemed the rabbi’s were completely ignorant of Jesus or his learning.

 

[Orogeny]

What rabbi’s? It seemed the rabbi’s were completely ignorant of Jesus or his learning.

Luke 2:41-47:

41 12 Each year his parents went to Jerusalem for the feast of Passover, 42 and when he was twelve years old, they went up according to festival custom. 43 After they had completed its days, as they were returning, the boy Jesus remained behind in Jerusalem, but his parents did not know it. 44 Thinking that he was in the caravan, they journeyed for a day and looked for him among their relatives and acquaintances, 45 but not finding him, they returned to Jerusalem to look for him. 46 After three days they found him in the temple, sitting in the midst of the teachers, listening to them and asking them questions, 47 and all who heard him were astounded at his understanding and his answers.

Jesus and John were cousins. I suspect (but of course have no way of actually knowing) that they knew each other growing up. I also suspect that John actually learned from Jesus and that was, at least in part, the reason he (John) started his ministry.

Again, that is just my thoughts and I don’t have any way of actually knowing that is true, but I do know without a doubt that Jesus learned from rabbis.

Peace

Tim

 

[NotWorthy]

Luke 2:41-47:

Jesus and John were cousins. I suspect (but of course have no way of actually knowing) that they knew each other growing up. I also suspect that John actually learned from Jesus and that was, at least in part, the reason he (John) started his ministry.

Again, that is just my thoughts and I don’t have any way of actually knowing that is true, but I do know without a doubt that Jesus learned from rabbis.

Peace

Tim

Jesus entered the Temple at 12 in Luke’s Gospel. This would have been the first time He was allowed in the Temple, if I’m correct, because he’s finally “of age”.

It is clear that He already understands a lot, just by the text of the Gospel. Hence, Jesus seems to already have learned what He knew prior to his staying in the Temple.

I would presume that He learned from His Mother, Mary.

Now, while you are referring to the Gospels, look again at John chapter 1. Twice John the Baptist claims that he did not know Jesus. He only knew Jesus was the Messiah because of the descent of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Orogeny]

Jesus entered the Temple at 12 in Luke’s Gospel. This would have been the first time He was allowed in the Temple, if I’m correct, because he’s finally “of age”.

It is clear that He already understands a lot, just by the text of the Gospel. Hence, Jesus seems to already have learned what He knew prior to his staying in the Temple.

Yes, Jesus knew much, but that doesn’t mean that he didn’t learn anything from the rabbis.

Now, while you are referring to the Gospels, look again at John chapter 1. Twice John the Baptist claims that he did not know Jesus. He only knew Jesus was the Messiah because of the descent of the Holy Spirit.

He only realized that Jesus was the Messiah because of the descent of the Holy Spirit, but that doesn’t mean that he didn’t actually know Jesus. Again, they were family.

In Matthew 3, John and Jesus have a conversation that sure sounds like they knew each other:

13 10 Then Jesus came from Galilee to John at the Jordan to be baptized by him. 14 11 John tried to prevent him, saying, “I need to be baptized by you, and yet you are coming to me?” 15 Jesus said to him in reply, “Allow it now, for thus it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness.” Then he allowed him.

Peace

Tim

 

[NotWorthy]

Yes, Jesus knew much, but that doesn’t mean that he didn’t learn anything from the rabbis.

I am of the impression that Jesus was asking questions simply to make the rabbi’s think. You know, like, "What did David mean in Psalm 110, when he asked, “The Lord said to my Lord…”.

Or, “If Isaiah 7:14 and Isaiah chapter 11 are talking of the same child, why is Isaiah 11 a messianic prophecy and Isaiah 7 is not”.

Remember, the Rabbi’s were very impressed with His understanding.

And out of the Rabbi’s and Mary, only Mary would have read the Scriptures in the light of Christ. I imagine she taught Jesus far more than those rabbi’s ever could have.

He only realized that Jesus was the Messiah because of the descent of the Holy Spirit, but that doesn’t mean that he didn’t actually know Jesus. Again, they were family.

And yet, John the Baptist said, “I did not know him”. Not, “I never knew my cousin was the Messiah. Who would have thought it?”.

In Matthew 3, John and Jesus have a conversation that sure sounds like they knew each other:
Peace

Tim

And again, John says, “I never knew him”. John lived in the Wilderness in Judea near Jerusalem, which would place him south of Samaria. He may have lived with the Essenes. Jesus hails from the Galilean area north of Samaria. I don’t think their kinship proves anything.

And the words John uses in Matthew don’t prove anything that hasn’t been told to his father, Zechariah in Matthew 1. John has probably been taught since his earliest childhood that his mission in life was to prepare the way for the Messiah.

 

[Orogeny]

I am of the impression that Jesus was asking questions simply to make the rabbi’s think. You know, like, "What did David mean in Psalm 110, when he asked, “The Lord said to my Lord…”.

Or, “If Isaiah 7:14 and Isaiah chapter 11 are talking of the same child, why is Isaiah 11 a messianic prophecy and Isaiah 7 is not”.

Remember, the Rabbi’s were very impressed with His understanding.

Are you of the opinion that Jesus never learned anything from anyone except for Mary (and I presume Joseph)?

And out of the Rabbi’s and Mary, only Mary would have read the Scriptures in the light of Christ. I imagine she taught Jesus far more than those rabbi’s ever could have.

Perhaps, but that doesn’t exclude rabbis as teachers.

And yet, John the Baptist said, “I did not know him”. Not, “I never knew my cousin was the Messiah. Who would have thought it?”.

You can read that as you wish, but I don’t read it that way. Jesus had friends growing up. He had family growing up. I have no reason to think that John wasn’t one of them.

And again, John says, “I never knew him”. John lived in the Wilderness in Judea near Jerusalem, which would place him south of Samaria. He may have lived with the Essenes. Jesus hails from the Galilean area north of Samaria. I don’t think their kinship proves anything.

John lived there prior to his ministry. I don’t know of any reason to think he lived his entire life there.

I agree that kinship proves nothing, but there is a logical reason to suspect that they knew each other. After all, it was John’s mother that Mary first went to after she said yes. There was clearly a closeness between the two and there is no reason to think that it died once their children were born.

Peace

Tim

 

[NotWorthy]

Are you of the opinion that Jesus never learned anything from anyone except for Mary (and I presume Joseph)?

No, but you used a Scripture to say you are positive. In this Scripture, this would be the first time that Jesus ever entered that part of the Temple, since He was a child prior to that. I think your reasoning there was faulty.

And I think the rabbi’s would have been wrong in more ways than they were right back then, because they couldn’t conceive of a Messiah coming out of Isaiah 52:13-53:12, when that is exactly what they got.

I think Mary and Joseph would have been by far the greatest teachers of Jesus.

Perhaps, but that doesn’t exclude rabbis as teachers.You can read that as you wish, but I don’t read it that way. Jesus had friends growing up. He had family growing up. I have no reason to think that John wasn’t one of them.John lived there prior to his ministry. I don’t know of any reason to think he lived his entire life there.

Let’s see. We know that John was born in the hills of Judea (south of Samaria). The next we know of him, he’s hanging out in the wilderness. We know that he was a Nazirite (he won’t touch alcohol, etc.), which would keep him in the wilderness for his entire adult life.

Jesus was born in Bethlehem, went to Egypt, came back and settled in Nazareth, which again is north of Samaria. There is nothing that directly links Him up with John the Baptist. They may have met from time to time during the Passover festivals, but nothing indicates this, nor even hints at it.

And John the Baptist clearly says twice, “I didn’t know him…”

I agree that kinship proves nothing, but there is a logical reason to suspect that they knew each other. After all, it was John’s mother that Mary first went to after she said yes. There was clearly a closeness between the two and there is no reason to think that it died once their children were born.

No, Mary went up to visit her kinsman, Elizabeth, because the angel Gabriel told her it was a sign. Mary would want to investigate the sign.

This very well could have been the first time they met, for all we know. After all, one was 90 and one was 13-15. How many pre-teens get close to their 80-90 year old relatives?

So, the 90 year old parents of John the Baptist probably didn’t travel too much anymore, nor live much longer. But in any event, from 12 years onward, John the Baptist probably lived in the wilderness of Judea, in line with his Nazirite ways. We have no indication either from Christian tradition or Scripture that indicates the two of them were acquainted.

 

[NotWorthy]

But, in any regards, whether they were acquainted or not is irrelevant.

There is nothing to show that Jesus would have been a disciple of John’s.

Look further at the Gospel of John (the Apostles). There are a couple of John’s disciples that meet Jesus. They never indicate that they knew him prior to that instant. One would think that a person’s disciples would get a chance to meet one another.

 

[mercygate]

In my New Testament Literature course my professor said that it is evident (when using the criterion of dissimilarity) that Jesus was a disciple of John the Baptist and that anything put into the Gospels about John the Baptist declaring himself lesser than Jesus was Christian glossing. How can I refute this point?

I don’t know that you need to “refute” it.

The whole Gospel is a Christian “gloss,” isn’t it? The Gospels were written in the Church and for the Church. Let him show you the Gospel of John the Baptist, written BEFORE the Gospels, and then we can talk.

Jesus was a kinsman of John. They were the same age. There is no reason other than a negative one to presume that Jesus was John’s disciple at all – especially since the Gospels do not even suggest it. But even if He did hang out with John for a while, that would not change the fact that He went His own way after He was baptized.