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Booklover
Guest
Vickie
- Status
B
Booklover
Guest
Yep, Muslims never give up in letting us know that they, and only they, have and know the truth!
Vickie
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hamba2han
Guest
Jesus (pbuh) is NOT the only “son of God” mentioned in the Bible:
Jacob is God’s son and firstborn: “Israel is my son, even my firstborn” Exodus 4:22.
Solomon is God’s son “He shall build an house for my name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom for ever. I will be his father, and he shall be my son”: 2 Samuel 7:13-14.
Ephraim is God’s firstborn: “for I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is my firstborn.” Jeremiah 31:9 → Who is God’s firstborn – Israel or Ephraim??
Adam is the son of God “Adam, which was the son of God.” Luke 3:38.
Common people (you and me) are the sons of God:
"Ye are the children of the LORD your God" Deuteronomy 14:1. “For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God” Romans 8:14. “But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name:” John 1:12. “That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;” Philippians 2:15. “Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: … now are we the sons of God” 1 John 3:1-2. “When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?” Job 38:7. “Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD,” Job 2:1. “Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD,” Job 1:6. “when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men,” Genesis 6:4. “That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they [were] fair” Genesis 6:2
And was Jesus the only begotten Son of God? (with a capital ‘S’ in the word ‘Son’ even!) → Read Psalms 2:7
"I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me (King David, King), Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee."
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jakasaki
Guest
Somehow I knew this was comming.
God, refers to Israel as His ‘firstborn’ son because the Israelites were his chosen people. God made promises to Abraham concerning his descendants and God performed many miracles in delivering the Israelites out of Egypt and in establishing the Israelites as a new or ‘firstborn’ nation.
Being the ‘firstborn’ under Jewish law entitles an heir to special inheritance rights - a double portion of the family inheritance was the right of the firstborn.
Also, the ‘firstborn’ acted as the family’s priest in the event of the father’s absence or death. This function ceased when the priesthood was committed to Levi’s tribe.
“Firstborn” is also used metaphorically in the O.T… The term “firstborn of the poor” used in Isaiah 14:30, means one who is supremely poor. And, “firstborn of death”, used in Job 18:13 refers to Job’s disease. Again, the context of the passage helps determine what is actually meant.
Christ is called the ‘Firstborn over all creation’ (Col. 1:15).
The entire passage shows that Christ has priority, preeminence and sovereignty over all creation, since all things were created by Him.
For further clarification, read Hosea 11:1 “When Israel was a child, I loved him and out of Egypt I called my son.” Here, God calls the nation of Israelites his son. There are other references similar to these. The context is that God used a metaphorical figure of speech denoting his relationship with Israel.
I’m not going to cover any more passages…
The term “Son of God” appears many times in the Bible. It is related to various people or peoples. However when this term relates to Jesus Christ it has a unique meaning. This term is an analogy that describes who Christ is uniquely, and, His relation to the Father.
Many Muslims assert that since there are many people referred to as ‘sons of God’ in the Bible, then Jesus was only speaking metaphorically when He called Himself the ‘Son of God’.
In other words, Jesus was the Son of God by doing good works, glorifying God, being humble, etc. But Muslims and the teaching of Islam state that He was not the One and Only Son of God in any special unique sense.
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hamba2han
Guest
Firstly, Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) did NOT dream of ascending to the heavens to meet his Lord, the event known as Isra & Mi’raj was indeed a REAL journey of body and soul.
Secondly, why should non-believers differentiate between the contents of the Qur’an and the ahadith?.. After all, both the Qur’an and the ahadith came from the lips of the same man, do they not?
Thirdly, the night journey of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) is indeed mentioned in the Qur’an:
Glory to (Allah) Who did take His servant for a Journey by night from the Sacred Mosque to the farthest Mosque, whose precincts We did bless,- in order that We might show him some of Our Signs: for He is the One Who heareth and seeth (all things). … *Surah al-Isra’, Ayah 1 *
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jakasaki
Guest
God speaks to all of HIS prophets hamba - allah did not speak to mohamad at all except the “night journey” incident.
And isn’t there a hadith from one of the wives where it is stated that mohamad never left the bed during this journey. It sounds like a dream to me.
And wasn’t there the 50 prayers a day deal but Moses told mohamad to go and tell allah to reduce them and then allah said 5 prayers a day will do.
Why didn’t allah speak to mohamad from day one. God speaks to ALL OF HIS prophets at **ALL **times.
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jakasaki
Guest
The Biblical Test
How do we determine if anyone is a true Prophet of God with a Divine Revelation?
Do we simply take them at their word?
If this is the case, then we have many people throughout history, as well as today, who claim to have messages from God! Fortunately,** God gives us a criterion to test the claims of those who claim to be Prophets: **
“When a prophet speaks in the Name of the Lord, if the word does not come to pass or come true, that is a word which the Lord has not spoken, the prophet has spoken it presumptuously, you need not be afraid of him.” (Deuteronomy 18:21-22)
**The fact of the matter is, that Muhammad gave us no prophecies which came true. He does not pass God’s test as a Prophet and his Qur’an is, therefore, not the Word of God. **
**The Bible clearly tells us ** - Test everything. Hold on to the good. (1 Thessalonians 5:21)
**Also, Bible translations have been improved in recent years through the incorporation of older manuscripts that have been discovered in recent times.
Why are Muslims so reluctant to do the same with the Qur’an?
Why have Muslims leaders prohibited the examination of the oldest Qur’ans?
Perhaps an examination of the problems with the the Samarkand Qur’an will provide some reasons for the reluctance of Muslims to examine the manuscript evidence for their “scriptures”?
Also, why have some writers such as Anwar Shaikh received numerous death threats from Islamic leaders because of their analysis of Islamic history?
It must be noted that none of the persons or organizations who issued the fatwas against Mr. Shaikh accepted an invitation to publically debate him and his ideas - their only response was to issue threats!
If the Qur’an is the truth, what do they have to fear? **
How do we determine if anyone is a true Prophet of God with a Divine Revelation?
Do we simply take them at their word?
If this is the case, then we have many people throughout history, as well as today, who claim to have messages from God! Fortunately,** God gives us a criterion to test the claims of those who claim to be Prophets: **
“When a prophet speaks in the Name of the Lord, if the word does not come to pass or come true, that is a word which the Lord has not spoken, the prophet has spoken it presumptuously, you need not be afraid of him.” (Deuteronomy 18:21-22)
**The fact of the matter is, that Muhammad gave us no prophecies which came true. He does not pass God’s test as a Prophet and his Qur’an is, therefore, not the Word of God. **
**The Bible clearly tells us ** - Test everything. Hold on to the good. (1 Thessalonians 5:21)
**Also, Bible translations have been improved in recent years through the incorporation of older manuscripts that have been discovered in recent times.
Why are Muslims so reluctant to do the same with the Qur’an?
Why have Muslims leaders prohibited the examination of the oldest Qur’ans?
Perhaps an examination of the problems with the the Samarkand Qur’an will provide some reasons for the reluctance of Muslims to examine the manuscript evidence for their “scriptures”?
Also, why have some writers such as Anwar Shaikh received numerous death threats from Islamic leaders because of their analysis of Islamic history?
It must be noted that none of the persons or organizations who issued the fatwas against Mr. Shaikh accepted an invitation to publically debate him and his ideas - their only response was to issue threats!
If the Qur’an is the truth, what do they have to fear? **
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hamba2han
Guest
I am not aware of any such hadith.
There is just too much to explain about the significance of Isra’ and Mi’raj but suffice for me to say at this juncture that the command Allah gave on this night journey of the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) for him to inform and teach believers of their obligation to perform the 5 daily prayers can be considered to be the Muslim’s passport to get into Paradise.
Muslims would still need to do a few other things in order to gain entry into Paradise of course, but the 5 daily prayers is absolutely the most important act of worship that they can do to please their Lord and Creator and the life of a Muslim really should revolve around his or her daily prayers.
And where in the Bible is this stated?
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jakasaki
Guest
Post #26 has some passages… but I guess that you didn’t even read that!
Here’s more
The first two verses of the book of Hebrews teach very loudly and plainly that, “God has spoken!” God is not silent. God is not withdrawn and uncommunicative.
Hebrews 1:1-2
God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds;
Exodus 7:1
"So the LORD said to Moses: “See, I have made you as God to Pharaoh, and Aaron your brother shall be your prophet.”
2 Peter 1:21
for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.
Numbers 27:18 And the LORD said to Moses: "Take Joshua the son of Nun with you, a man in whom is the Spirit, and lay your hand on him;
This is exhausting every time we post these things… I’m done
You want to know more, read the Bible with an open mind, they’re in there how many times God spoke to His prophets.
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Hadi
Guest
jakasaki
"God speaks to ALL OF HIS prophets"
show me from the OT that God spoke to **ALL **the prophets…you showed only Moses so far
"God speaks to ALL OF HIS prophets"
show me from the OT that God spoke to **ALL **the prophets…you showed only Moses so far
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Jamison97
Guest
Jakasaki, Mohammed was never spoken to directly by Him but instead through the angel Gabriel. And Holly, you are horrible intolerant to say the least. I love Christ, I am a devout Christian, but I can’t handle that. I’m attempting to pray to get over how intolerant your statement was, but I become filled with anger at times. I hope He will let me get over this. 
This is the kind of stuff that makes religions hate each other. You might not have to follow Islam, but you can at least respect their religion. I expect that Muslims respect Christians even though we don’t follow the same faith as you. We all believe in God, and we’re all human. Christians and Muslims have had so many faults so many times, be it war or decreasing social justice.
This is the kind of stuff that makes religions hate each other. You might not have to follow Islam, but you can at least respect their religion. I expect that Muslims respect Christians even though we don’t follow the same faith as you. We all believe in God, and we’re all human. Christians and Muslims have had so many faults so many times, be it war or decreasing social justice.
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Muslim_Woman
Guest
In the name of Allah , Most Gracious, Most Merciful
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So , God sent His final holy book to His last Prophet and promised that He will safe the book from corruption. God made it possible for Muslims to have the whole book in memory. So , millions including non-Arabs memorised the whole Quran . Other memorised few verses & we daily recite it in our 5 times prayers.
O people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians)! Do not exceed the limits in your religion, nor say of Allah aught but the truth.
The Messiah Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), was (no more than) a Messenger of Allah and His Word, (“Be!” - and he was) which He bestowed on Maryam (Mary) and a spirit (Rooh) created by Him;
so believe in Allah and His Messengers. Say not: “Three (Trinity)!” Cease! (it is) better for you.
For Allah is (the only) One Ilah (God), Glory be to Him (Far Exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belongs all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth. And Allah is AllSufficient as a Disposer of affairs.
( سورة النساء , An-Nisa, Chapter #4, Verse #171)
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anything goes against holy Quran is not accepted as truth to us. God says in Quran that He begets not , nor was He begotten.
Bible says , Adam (pbuh) is son of God . Why Christians don’t worship him as God ? God created Adam (pbuh) without father & mother , God created Jesus ( pbuh) without father …these are miracles. Miracle birth did not make anyone equal to God.
Muslims believe Jesus (pbuh) was blessed with a holy book —Injeel/ Bible. But nobody memorised it as Muslims do it with Quran or nobody recorded it . Later Bible was altered by human being.
So , God sent His final holy book to His last Prophet and promised that He will safe the book from corruption. God made it possible for Muslims to have the whole book in memory. So , millions including non-Arabs memorised the whole Quran . Other memorised few verses & we daily recite it in our 5 times prayers.
David (pbuh) is mentioned in Bible as begotten son , also many others are sons of God . Most probably , it was a tradition to call people as sons of God at that time. It does not mean that God has any wife/ wives , they gave birth of so many kids of God…this is blasphemy in Islam.
O people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians)! Do not exceed the limits in your religion, nor say of Allah aught but the truth.
The Messiah Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), was (no more than) a Messenger of Allah and His Word, (“Be!” - and he was) which He bestowed on Maryam (Mary) and a spirit (Rooh) created by Him;
so believe in Allah and His Messengers. Say not: “Three (Trinity)!” Cease! (it is) better for you.
For Allah is (the only) One Ilah (God), Glory be to Him (Far Exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belongs all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth. And Allah is AllSufficient as a Disposer of affairs.
( سورة النساء , An-Nisa, Chapter #4, Verse #171)
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dzheremi
Guest
Reallyyyy?Jakasaki, Mohammed was never spoken to directly by Him but instead through the angel Gabriel. And Holly, you are horrible intolerant to say the least. I love Christ, I am a devout Christian, but I can’t handle that. I’m attempting to pray to get over how intolerant your statement was, but I become filled with anger at times. I hope He will let me get over this.
Are you sure the “religions” hate each other because of what Holly wrote on a message board? Are you sure it is not more sensible to attribute a healthy dislike of Islam to the presence of verses like this one in their “holy book”:Qur’an (9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."
When Muslims kidnap and kill your loved ones, drive you from your home, force your daughters to convert to Islam, burn your places of worship down, etc., then you can come back and tell us all how much you respect Islam. All of these things happen in places where the two religions live together like Egypt, Nigeria, Indonesia, etc. I’m sorry, but being a thug and a sadist is not the way to earn my respect, whether you think you’re doing Allah’s (or Jesus’, or Vishnu’s, or whoever you believe is God!) work or not.
What are you basing this on, exactly? Press confrences? Translations of “nice” (often abrogated) verses in the Qur’an? I can understand why you’d want to believe this, but history does not bear it out.
Please, sir or ma’am, look into just what the Qur’an says about Christians. Some of it is good, but some of it is bad, and many Muslims would, as a result of what the Qur’an says about us, not agree at all that we are all just worshipping God. As the user “Bosnian Muslim” said only a few days ago, to a Muslim all religions outside of Islam and Judaism are polytheism. As you may or may not know, the polytheists are not considered among the “Protected people” of the Qur’an (the “Ahl al-Kitaab”, or “People of the Book”), so once it has been established you are a polytheist (and of course, you yourself have no say in this) there is no religious motivation for any Muslim to protect you from harm or treat you fairly.
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Muslim_Woman
Guest
In the name of Allah , Most Gracious, Most Merciful
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I am sure , u don’t consider Hitler as a Christian , right ?
{God forbids you not, with regard to those who fight you not for (your) Faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: for God loveth those who are just.} (Al-Mumtahanah 60:8)
Revile not ye those whom they call upon besides God, lest they out of spite revile God in their ignorance…}* (Al-An`am 6:108)
{Call to the way of your Lord with wisdom and goodly exhortation, and have disputations with them in the best manner; surely your Lord best knows those who go astray from His path, and He knows best those who follow the right way.} (An-Nahl 16:125)
related link: Manners with Non-Muslims
Daby - Canada
Question
I was wondering what I should be doing in this situation. At my job, someone I work with is a Buddhist. She is constantly talking about her religion and what she believes. She knows my religion and as a Muslim, I know I can’t put down anyone else’s religion.
readingislam.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=IslamOnline-English-AAbout_Islam/AskAboutIslamE/AskAboutIslamE&cid=1123996015592
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These are not allowed in Islam
I am sure , u don’t consider Hitler as a Christian , right ?
{God forbids you not, with regard to those who fight you not for (your) Faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: for God loveth those who are just.} (Al-Mumtahanah 60:8)
Revile not ye those whom they call upon besides God, lest they out of spite revile God in their ignorance…}* (Al-An`am 6:108)
{Call to the way of your Lord with wisdom and goodly exhortation, and have disputations with them in the best manner; surely your Lord best knows those who go astray from His path, and He knows best those who follow the right way.} (An-Nahl 16:125)
to my knowledge , according to Bible , Jesus (pbuh) told that we ( non-jews) are dog or pig or both. Quran call Jews & Chrisitans as people of the holy book.
related link: Manners with Non-Muslims
Daby - Canada
Question
I was wondering what I should be doing in this situation. At my job, someone I work with is a Buddhist. She is constantly talking about her religion and what she believes. She knows my religion and as a Muslim, I know I can’t put down anyone else’s religion.
readingislam.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=IslamOnline-English-AAbout_Islam/AskAboutIslamE/AskAboutIslamE&cid=1123996015592
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dzheremi
Guest
I did not say whether or not they were allowed, no that it even matters since Islam is BUILT on forced conversions. Frankly, even if I were to concede this point, it’s still possible to argue that what’s allowed in Islam for believers to do to non-Muslims is bad enough! Like this wonderful tidbit (caps aren’t mine, sorry; it was like that in the first full, contextually sound translation that I found):These are not allowed in Islam
**I WILL CAST TERROR INTO THE HEARTS OF THOSE WHO DISBELIEVE. THEREFORE STRIKE OFF THEIR HEADS AND STRIKE OFF EVERY FINGERTIP OF THEM. THIS IS BECAUSE THEY ACTED ADVERSELY TO ALLAH AND HIS MESSENGER; AND WHOEVER ACTS ADVERSELY TO ALLAH AND HIS MESSENGER - THEN SURELY ALLAH IS SEVERE IN REQUITING (EVIL). THIS - TASTE IT, AND (KNOW) THAT FOR THE UNBELIEVERS IS THE PUNISHMENT OF FIRE. O you who believe! When you meet those who disbelieve marching for war, then turn not your backs to them. And whoever shall turn his back to them on that day - unless he turn aside for the sake of fighting or withdraws to a company - then he, indeed, becomes deserving of Allah’s wrath, and his abode is hell; and an evil destination shall it be. So you did not slay them, but it was Allah Who slew them and you did not smite when you smote (the enemy) but it was Allah Who smote, and that He might confer upon the believers a good gift from Himself; (8:12-17) **
Hitler has nothing to do with this conversation.
However you square this with verses demanding that you subjugate others or kill because they don’t believe in Islam and Muhammad is your business. I’ve read this verse a million times on here, and I’ll still tell you without a hint of malice that a million verses of this type are not worth even one drop of Assyrian, Coptic, Nubian, Habesha, Persian, Armenian, Berber, or Arab blood. Put your money where your book is or close your book, once and for all. I’m tired of this.
The trouble with this is that the call to Islam that came to the Jewish, Christian, Zoroastrian, and Pagan middle east either came with its own army or in advance of one. So this is one of those verses where I would say it would be nice if it were so, but only a fool would think that the Arabs came to Egypt, Lebanon, Iraq, Palestine, etc. to have a cup of tea and preach the words of the Qur’an with nothing up their sleeves. History does not show us that, but the opposite.
You’ll forgive me if I wait for some sort of reference from you, I hope, since it doesn’t seem that you actually know what the Bible says. If you bring some reference (and please not just a link to an Islamic site; last time I visited one, it gave my computer a virus), I will look at it and discuss it with you.
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AdriannaJean
Guest
Wow. I have to withdraw from this post before I say something uncharitable.
CHRISTIANS!!! WHAT ARE YOU DOING?!?!?!?!
Some of the things that have been said in this forum have made me feel ashamed to share a beautiful religion with you. How can you be so disrespectful and call yourselves disciples of Christ? No one is saying you have to agree with everything everyone says, but mind your manners as you should have been taught to do in grade school!
To my Muslim friends, I feel obligated to apologize on behalf of my “Christian” brethren here. “Forgive them, they know not what they do.”
CHRISTIANS!!! WHAT ARE YOU DOING?!?!?!?!
Some of the things that have been said in this forum have made me feel ashamed to share a beautiful religion with you. How can you be so disrespectful and call yourselves disciples of Christ? No one is saying you have to agree with everything everyone says, but mind your manners as you should have been taught to do in grade school!
To my Muslim friends, I feel obligated to apologize on behalf of my “Christian” brethren here. “Forgive them, they know not what they do.”
M
Muslim_Woman
Guest
** In the name of Allah , the Most Gracious , Ever Merciful **
http://theislampath.com/smf/Smileys/default/salam.gif
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http://theislampath.com/smf/Smileys/default/salam.gif
Thank You. This kind of rare posts help me to avoid the trap of Devil & not to start hating all Christians.
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Jay53
Guest
I’m just curious - exactly which posts did you find offensive so as to make to “feel ashamed”?Wow. I have to withdraw from this post before I say something uncharitable.
CHRISTIANS!!! WHAT ARE YOU DOING?!?!?!?!
Some of the things that have been said in this forum have made me feel ashamed to share a beautiful religion with you. How can you be so disrespectful and call yourselves disciples of Christ? No one is saying you have to agree with everything everyone says, but mind your manners as you should have been taught to do in grade school!
To my Muslim friends, I feel obligated to apologize on behalf of my “Christian” brethren here. “Forgive them, they know not what they do.”
J
jakasaki
Guest
You know, I was going to start listing them - but I’m not. Look them up. Here’s a few.
Abraham
Moses
Aaron
John the Baptist
Jacob
Daniel
Noah
Isaiah
Ezekiel
Samuel
:coffeeread:
H
Hadi
Guest
Do you really think I’m ignorant about these prophets …I asked you not their names but to quote from the OT that God spoke to All of these prophets…you have given reference only to Moses so far
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