Jesus as a highly addictive neurotoxic drug?

[nfinke]

: a highly addictive, neurotoxic, i.e., poisonous, drug.

I think this is definitely an extreme characterization. As far as drugs go, alcohol is one of the least addictive or toxic or poisonous, especially in the way most people consume it.

You have to drink alcohol past the level of moderation for a pretty considerate length of time before developing something like a dependency, or being “poisoned” by it in any life threatening or even life altering way. You really have to be gravely irresponsible in your consumption for something like that to happen. This is in contrast to many other drugs (heroin, cocaine, etc) that actually can addict you or even kill you easily with one use, especially if you don’t know what you’re doing. Noone has ever become an alcoholic or experienced withdrawals due to taking one double shot of whiskey.

Alcohol doesn’t compromise the mind if you drink in moderation. If it does…that isn’t drinking in moderation. I drink in moderation. I never drink to the point where something like my driving is effected, and sometimes, when my friends are out of town, I’ll go 6-8 months not even thinking about a drink. So to say it’s “highly addictive” is a hot take to say the least.

To answer your actual question: wine was unbelievably common in the era. There was alot of it around, and significantly, there wasn’t alot of clean water around. The alcohol makes wine more resistant to bacteria and whatnot, so it was just safer to drink than grape juice. Famously alot of churches in the Nordic countries in the early centuries were baptizing people with beer, because clean, fresh water was so scarce in comparison. The church came in and defined that baptism has to be with water, but if they were baptizing people with beer, you can imagine why Christ didn’t say they needed to find something like water every Sunday, or even every day, in order to receive the eucharist. Would make it pretty prohibitive.

 

[clintbranam]

This is an interesting quote–thanks for sharing it.

 

[PetraG]

With all due respect, I’ve come to see alcohol for what it is: a highly addictive, neurotoxic, i.e., poisonous, drug. It has ruined millions of lives and enabled immeasurable sin. I wonder if there’s any worthwhile writings speculating why Jesus would choose it when instituting the Eucharist?

It was a Passover meal, so I’d suggest researching the origin of including wine in the Passover meal.

Keep in mind, too, that it is not necessary for the faithful to recieve Holy Communion under the species of wine. It is not offered in amounts that either lead to a dopamine hit or cravings or any of the rest. You may as well say that we ought to stop putting vanilla extract in ice cream because we could make alcoholics that way. Well, no, we’re not. Just as a teaspoon of (usually 70 proof) vanilla extract is not going to give anybody a buzz, just so the amount of wine used at Mass is not going to make someone an addict. It might trigger an association that ought to be avoided for someone that is already an alcoholic, but it isn’t going to make anybody an alcoholic. There simply is not that much consumed.

Ethanol itself tastes horrible and half a pint of it would kill you. The only reason to drink it is for the dopamine hit, same as any other drug.

Well, this is obviously not true, since it isn’t the reason I drink it. No, enjoying the taste does not stem purely from association. Where did you get that? Did you get some idea that there isn’t anyone who developed a taste for wine without ever getting a buzz? No one who restricts themselves to amounts lower than what cause a buzz or “relaxation” or what have you? Sorry, but…not true.

I believe the most effective way to quit it is to demonize it

Actually, that way really does not work any more than making a movie like “Reefer Madness” turns people off of using marijuana. Demonization is hyperbole to the point of falsehood, and falsehood fails in the end. People catch on that you’re not telling the truth, and then they don’t want to believe that you’re even partly right.

 

[OurLadyofSorrows]

Oh really? The Church isn’t going to quit consecrating wine? No kidding. Obviously, Jesus knew what he was doing–I was asking if anyone knew of any good writings on the subject. I think it’s valid to question the contradiction of wine being used in the most sacred way possible while the same substance is, in essence, an addictive poison. (Obviously, not everyone has a problem with alcohol–that doesn’t change the fact that people drink it because it’s a drug that feels good.)

There is a big difference

Wine consecrated becomes the Body Blood Soul and Divinity of Christ. Bottles of Christ are not being sold in liquor stores and never will be.

Wine made by the humble winemaker are always wine, are never Christ, and are sold in liquor stores.

Christ is never poison, Christ is Yeshua, Salvation.

 

[Mhkc]

My position on alcohol consumption, and for that matter, even tobacco, or in states where other substances are legal… that the little buzz might have its sort of fun, appealing, different state making, socializing, etc… however, there are some people that may have pronounced difficulty with going over board. I think that is a personal discernment issue. I know for me, its the same vigilance as with my own careful watch over my thoughts words and actions relating to fleeing the 7 deadly sins.

in my path, as I go through my process of sanctification, I find that as I develop a more filial respect and fear of God, its that I don’t want to give ‘room’ to distance myself with sin.

That has been a one month prayer of mine to attain slowly. Though my feelings , I say I want to get to where I have a more readily sense of love by God in my feeling state for sure. I also want to have just a better assurance of God’s love, even when I don’t “FEEL” it, per se, or that its not in my emotions. Part of my sanctification is , via continually fleeing sin, regardless of any feelings of temptation I have, or especially what I call the build up a sense of pinned up emotion that might come with leaving vices of all ilks, … is that though I don’t know what God may have willed for me, I just know that at my stage of life, I am simply rather preferred to error on fleeing sin, spending what time I can in adoration, rosaries, study, and improved interactions with others

 

[LilyM]

See, thing is, we need food: food is sustenance. It seems natural that we crave it. And natural to look at those cravings as temptation of the flesh.

What’s the difference between wine and grape juice? Alcohol. What’s alcohol? It’s really nothing but a neurotoxic poison which is the opposite of sustenance. It’s bad for us. That’s why it strikes me as curious Jesus chose it.

Alcohol does a lot of other things and has a lot of other qualities. It kills germs, it is an analgesic (numbs physical pain) and a muscle relaxant. All of these can be very good qualities in moderation. In some circumstances it may be better to have a nip of spirit or a glass of wine than to pop a painkiller, eg for people who have allergies or intolerances for prescription painkillers.

 

[neophyte]

You know Allen Carr?

Nope, never heard of him.

I realized a long time ago that addiction is fundamentally a relational disease, that it’s not really about the drugs but about my inability to live as a human being. As I went about the work of fixing that, I lost the urge to use. Today I know that alcohol is bad for me and that it’s not bad for a lot of other people, and that’s pretty much the standard view in my recovery fellowship.

I’ve never met anyone that thought the way you do, and I don’t see it as a healthy foundation on which to base recovery; addiction affects every area of our lives, including those which are absolutely good and necessary and which cannot be abandoned as evil without abandoning our own humanity.

 

[clintbranam]

Hmm, interesting–thanks for sharing. I’m still thinking all this through… thank you for writing.