Jesus as the only saviour

  • Thread starter Thread starter 2014taylorj
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
So exactly why is it inappropriate to describe the father or holy spirit as saviour, if both are fully God, and so was Jesus?
 
2014taylorj said:
So exactly why is it inappropriate to describe the father or holy spirit as saviour, if both are fully God, and so was Jesus?
Click to expand...
Because neither the Holy Spirit nor the Father became man and died for us. They’re not Jesus. The persons of the Trinity are not interchangeable: they’re distinct.
 
Jesus is one person with two natures: divine and human. Natures are not born and natures do not die. Persons are born and persons die. Therefore, since Jesus is God by the divine nature, we say God died. Not by any change to the divine nature, but by the change to the human nature that was assumed by the Divine Person.

Divine Simplicity only means that the Divinity has no parts, not that God is simple to understand. In addition to the whole transcendent thing, humans understand things by categorizing, grouping, understanding the conditions that define something. Something as “simple” as God, which has no such conditions, doesn’t relate to anything in our immediate experience and how we think about things. His absolute simplicity therefore is hard to grasp in our minds.

Most of the heresies that diverged from Trinitarianism went for relatability and analogy over the truths passed down.
 
I also would not relate the relations of the Trinity to the relations between the two natures of Jesus. For example, God has one will shared by all three persons as one being. Jesus had a human will and the divine will. The human will was its own, separate thing, but submitted itself to and cooperated with the Divine Will.
 
Fauken said:
40.png
2014taylorj:
So exactly why is it inappropriate to describe the father or holy spirit as saviour, if both are fully God, and so was Jesus?
Click to expand...
Because neither the Holy Spirit nor the Father became man and died for us. They’re not Jesus. The persons of the Trinity are not interchangeable: they’re distinct.
Click to expand...
They’re relational distinct, yes.

I don’t know that it’s inappropriate to refer to the Father and Holy Spirit as our savior, either. The Catechism specifically says “under Heaven,” which to me refers to created things (such as the human nature belonging to the person of Jesus Christ).
 
Wesrock said:
It’s not inappropriate to describe God as our savior.
Click to expand...
For I am the Lord your God, the Holy One of Israel, your Savior . . . “You are my witnesses,” declares the Lord, and my servant whom I have chosen, so that you may know and believe me and understand that I am he. . . I, am the Lord, and apart from me there is no savior. . . I have revealed and saved and proclaimed— I, and not some foreign god among you. You are my witnesses,” declares the Lord, “that I am God… . . This is what the Lord says— your Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel:“. . . I am the Lord, your Holy One, Israel’s Creator, your King.” Isaiah 43
 
well now i’m really confused who is right. Is it appropriate to describe the father or holy spirit as saviour or not. I thought christ died for our atonement?
 
To quote St Thomas Aquinas: ‘Christ, then, is man, though He has no human personality. But His humanity, far from being lowered by this union with the Word, is rather thereby elevated and glorified. From that union His humanity has an innate sanctity substantial and uncreated. To illustrate. Imagination, the highest of sense faculties, has a higher nobility in man than in animal, a nobility arising from its very subordination to the higher faculty of the intellect. A thing is more noble when it exists in a higher being than when it exists in itself.’
 
Yes. A mistake. I thought Wesrock was making your point.
 
Last edited:
2014taylorj said:
well now i’m really confused who is right. Is it appropriate to describe the father or holy spirit as saviour or not. I thought christ died for our atonement?
Click to expand...
Philip said, “Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us.” Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the works themselves. -John 14:8-11
 
Jesus is the Incarnation of the Second Person of the Trinity, born of the virgin Mary through the Holy Spirit Spirit. Jesus (God) came to do the Will of the Father. Think of “Father” as the “Eternal Thought” or “Mind” who begot the Eternal Word. Distinct yet both inseparable. You cannot speak of one without including the other.

“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. . . And The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.” John 1:1-14
 
Even Mary the Blessed Virgn, Queen of the Holy Rosary, called God the Father her savior. So it wouldn’t be inappropriate to call God the Father or God the Holy Spirit your savior.
 
Also 1992 catechism: “all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is His Body.”
 
The way I see it, God is pure.

Even moses was not allowed to wear shoes in his presence.

So we must be pure to be in his presence. But as humans we are not pure.

So God offered his pure and only Son to be a sacrifice for our sins. Jesus being pure was the perfect lamb.

Jesus as a human knew of temptation but resisted the devil so was perfectly placed to be our Judge.

We can be pure through jesus and no other way because of our sins.
 
Jesus is our only Saviour.

Jesus is God.

God is our only Saviour.

Now, saying that the other Persons of the Trinity (The Holy Spirit and The Father) are Our Saviour, (for me) is correct because the Trinity is present when one of the Person is present; BUT, it will get you some trickier discussions with our nit-picky amateur theologians in CAF.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top