Jesus as True God and True Man

  • Thread starter Thread starter Cathoholic
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
pohandes said:
…
Sorry. But it does not help. I need to know what you mean “God assumed human body” and “substantially united to some thing”.
Click to expand...
I wrote: “The Son of God assumed human body and soul. His divine nature was substantially united to human nature.”

Human nature is body-soul, which is a human person, capable of rational thought and voluntary decision.

In the Incarnation, the human nature of Jesus Christ is created body and soul and is united with the divinity of the Son of God, and there is no change that occurs in the divinity, the only change is that the human is created and united. The Person is that of the Son of God. One person and two natures.
 
Vico said:
In the Incarnation, the human nature of Jesus Christ is created body and soul and is united with the divinity of the Son of God,
Click to expand...
Do you mean a Combination?
Vico said:
there is no change that occurs in the divinity, the only change is that the human is created and united. The Person is that of the Son of God.
Click to expand...
So Divine nature did not changed and Human nature changed? Although I still do not know what you mean by united.
Vico said:
One person and two natures.
Click to expand...
being is self-exist and being possible, is a Description of Essence, not the natures. What was Jesus’ Essence? Self-exist or possible thing?
 
pohandes said:
…
Click to expand...
You wrote: “I still do not know what you mean by united.”
In Jesus Christ are two natures – the divine plus human body and soul (with human will and intellect) – one person. This is called the hypostatic union.

You asked: “What was Jesus’ Essence?”
The incarnate Son of God is an individual, complete substance.
 
Vico said:
You wrote: “I still do not know what you mean by united.”
In Jesus Christ are two natures – the divine plus human body and soul (with human will and intellect) – one person. This is called the hypostatic union.
Click to expand...
Can we divide Jesus to two natures?

Can the Divine nature be Jesus’s divine nature without his human nature?

And as I said before: If he is true God and True man, then he must have both all man’s attributes and all God’s attributes, And it is impossible, because he can’t have inconsistent attributes:

He must be mortal to be a man, and He must be immortal to be the God. He must be needy to be a man, and He must be needless to be the God, etc.
Vico said:
You asked: “What was Jesus’ Essence?”
The incarnate Son of God is an individual, complete substance.
Click to expand...
It is not a answer to my question. Does he have one essence? If yes, is his essence self-exist or possible?
 
pohandes said:
Can we divide Jesus to two natures?

Can the Divine nature be Jesus’s divine nature without his human nature?

And as I said before: If he is true God and True man, then he must have both all man’s attributes and all God’s attributes, And it is impossible, because he can’t have inconsistent attributes:

He must be mortal to be a man, and He must be immortal to be the God. He must be needy to be a man, and He must be needless to be the God, etc.
Click to expand...
Jesus was fully human and fully God. He was one person with two natures - human and divine.
 
pohandes said:
…
Click to expand...
You asked: “Can we divide Jesus to two natures?”
Yes, there two natures.

You asked: “Can the Divine nature be Jesus’s divine nature without his human nature?”
Yes, the natures are not mixed.

You wrote: “He must be mortal to be a man, and He must be immortal to be the God. He must be needy to be a man, and He must be needless to be the God, etc.”

A human being has an immortal soul, but the body dies and is resurrected. Two two natures are present at the same time as the Council of Chalcedon (451) stated (from Denzinger, old numbering):
148 Therefore, following the holy fathers, we all teach that with one accord we confess one and the same Son, our Lord Jesus Christ, the same perfect in human nature, truly God and the same with a rational soul and a body truly man, consubstantial with the Father according to divinity, and consubstantial with us according to human nature, like unto us in all things except sin, [cf. Heb. 4:15]; indeed born of the Father before the ages according to divine nature, but in the last days the same born of the virgin Mary, Mother of God according to human nature; for us and for our deliverance, one and the same Christ only begotten Son, our Lord, acknowledged in two natures,’ without mingling, without change, indivisibly, undividedly, the distinction of the natures nowhere removed on account of the union but rather the peculiarity of each nature being kept, and uniting in one person and substance, not divided or separated into two persons, but one and the same Son only begotten God Word, Lord Jesus Christ, just as from the beginning the prophets taught about Him and the Lord Jesus Himself taught us, and the creed of our fathers has handed down to us.
Click to expand...
You asked: "Does he have one essence?
Essence is being. There is one being. There is one person, the Son of God, with two natures. A natures is not the same as an essence, for nature is essence in action.

You asked: “is his essence self-exist or possible?”
I think you are asking about is versus may be. I will assume you mean the person of the Son of God. The Son of God is.
 
Montrose said:
Why is that?
Click to expand...
Because it is not! please read my post again. You did not answer to my question.
Vico said:
You asked: “is his essence self-exist or possible?”
I think you are asking about is versus may be . I will assume you mean the person of the Son of God. The Son of God is.
Click to expand...
I asked: this essence is self-exist or not?
 
pohandes said:
40.png
Montrose:
Why is that?
Click to expand...
Because it is not! please read my post again. You did not answer to my question.
Vico said:
You asked: “is his essence self-exist or possible?”
I think you are asking about is versus may be . I will assume you mean the person of the Son of God. The Son of God is.
Click to expand...
I asked: this essence is self-exist or not?
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
I guess everyone is having a hard time actually understanding what you are asking!
Click to expand...
 
pohandes said:
40.png
Montrose:
Why is that?
Click to expand...
Because it is not! please read my post again. You did not answer to my question.
Vico said:
You asked: “is his essence self-exist or possible?”
I think you are asking about is versus may be . I will assume you mean the person of the Son of God. The Son of God is.
Click to expand...
I asked: this essence is self-exist or not?
Click to expand...
Yes. That is what “is” means as opposed to “may be”.
 
pohandes said:
40.png
Vico:
Jesus Christ is the person of the Son of God with divine nature and assummed human nature.
Click to expand...
Do you mean he lost his divine attributes by assuming human nature?
Click to expand...
No.

Council of Constantinople II (533 A.D.) (from Sources of Catholic Dogma, Denzinger, old numbering):
Can. 8. If anyone who agrees that a union has been born of the two natures of divinity and humanity, or who says that one nature of the Word of God has been made flesh, does not accept these (expressions) as the holy Fathers have taught, namely, that of the nature of God and of that of man, the union having taken place according to subsistence, one Christ was produced; but from such words attempts to introduce one nature or substance of Godhead and humanity of Christ, let such be anathema. For, while asserting that the only-begotten Word is united according to subsistence, we do not say that any confusion of the natures with each other has been produced; but rather we believe that while each remains exactly as it is, the Word has been united to the flesh. Therefore, there is one Christ, God and man, the same [person being] consubstantial with the Father according to the Divinity, and the same consubstantial with us according to the humanity, for the Church of God equally detests and anathernatizes those who divide or cut part by part, and those who confuse the mystery of the divine dispensation of Christ.
Click to expand...
Heresies that were anathemized in Church councils:
  • Confirmed that the Son of God is of one substance with the Father; against Arianism (325)
  • Confirmed that the Holy Spirit was not created by the Son and is truly divine; against Macedonianism (381)
  • Confirmed that Christ has a rational soul; against Apollinarianism (381)
  • Confirmed that Christ is one person not two; against Nestorianism (431)
  • Confirmed that Christ has two natures not one; against Monophysitism (451)
  • Confirmed that Christ has two wills not one; against Monotheletism (680)
 
Montrose said:
Jesus was FULLY human and FULLY God.
Click to expand...
If Hes is Fully God. then he can’t be Fully Human: He is self-exist and can’t be a creature (as a human) He is immortal and he can’t die, like a human. He is needless and does not need food and water as a human. HE IS FULLY GOD.
Vico said:
No.
Click to expand...
OK. So he kept his divine attributes by assuming human nature. Then he must be needless, but needed food and water. He must be immortal, but he died on the cross, etc.
 
pohandes said:
40.png
Montrose:
Jesus was FULLY human and FULLY God.
Click to expand...
If Hes is Fully God. then he can’t be Fully Human: He is self-exist and can’t be a creature (as a human) He is immortal and he can’t die, like a human. He is needless and does not need food and water as a human. HE IS FULLY GOD.
Vico said:
No.
Click to expand...
OK. So he kept his divine attributes by assuming human nature. Then he must be needless, but needed food and water. He must be immortal, but he died on the cross, etc.
Click to expand...
Your profile says you are Catholic. You must therefore know that Jesus was fully human and fully God. This is Church doctrine.

CCC 464 The unique and altogether singular event of the Incarnation of the Son of God does not mean that Jesus Christ is part God and part man, nor does it imply that he is the result of a confused mixture of the divine and the human. He became truly man while remaining truly God. Jesus Christ is true God and true man.
 
pohandes said:
40.png
Montrose:
Jesus was FULLY human and FULLY God.
Click to expand...
If Hes is Fully God. then he can’t be Fully Human: He is self-exist and can’t be a creature (as a human) He is immortal and he can’t die, like a human. He is needless and does not need food and water as a human. HE IS FULLY GOD.
Vico said:
No.
Click to expand...
OK. So he kept his divine attributes by assuming human nature. Then he must be needless, but needed food and water. He must be immortal, but he died on the cross, etc.
Click to expand...
Two natures, one person. The human nature needs and the human body dies and is resurrected and the human soul is immortal.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top