Jesus' brethren and not cousins

[jerome_ky]

I know the “brethren” of Jesus were the sons of Mary the wife of Cleophas, but I am confused by the language saying that Jesus had brothers and sisters, and the reasoning that there were no terms for “cousin,” when Luke 1:36 states that Elizabeth was Mary’s “cousin.” I’m not having a crisis of faith or anything like that, just curious what the answers are to this.

 

[thistle]

I know the “brethren” of Jesus were the sons of Mary the wife of Cleophas, but I am confused by the language saying that Jesus had brothers and sisters, and the reasoning that there were no terms for “cousin,” when Luke 1:36 states that Elizabeth was Mary’s “cousin.” I’m not having a crisis of faith or anything like that, just curious what the answers are to this.

catholic.com/tracts/brethren-of-the-lord

 

[Reuben_J]

I know the “brethren” of Jesus were the sons of Mary the wife of Cleophas, but I am confused by the language saying that Jesus had brothers and sisters, and the reasoning that there were no terms for “cousin,” when Luke 1:36 states that Elizabeth was Mary’s “cousin.” I’m not having a crisis of faith or anything like that, just curious what the answers are to this.

There is indeed no term for the word cousin in ancient Aramaic. More importantly, in their spoken language and as such the culture was, where families and relatives were really closely knitted, relatives like cousins or distant cousins were simply just called brothers or sisters of so and so, depending on their sex.

But that is not the only thing for believing that Jesus had no brothers or sister, rather, the tradition that was passed on from the apostles, people who knew Jesus personally. We are confident of this knowledge, that is by tradition, because our Church started from the time of the apostles never to be interrupted until today. We know who and what Jesus was.

 

[MT1926]

and the reasoning that there were no terms for “cousin,” when Luke 1:36 states that Elizabeth was Mary’s “cousin.” I’m not having a crisis of faith or anything like that, just curious what the answers are to this.

I think this pretty much comes down to which Bible you are looking at:

Luke 1:36 King James Version (KJV)
36 And, behold, thy cousin Elisabeth, she hath also conceived a son in her old age: and this is the sixth month with her, who was called barren.

Luke 1:36 New Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition (NRSVCE)
36 And now, your **relative **Elizabeth in her old age has also conceived a son; and this is the sixth month for her who was said to be barren.

Luke 1:36New American Bible (Revised Edition) (NABRE)
36 And behold, Elizabeth, your relative, has also conceived[a] a son in her old age, and this is the sixth month for her who was called barren;

Luke 1:36International Standard Version (ISV)
36 And listen! Elizabeth, your relative, has herself conceived a son in her old age, this woman who was rumored to be barren is in her sixth month.

Luke 1:36Good News Translation (GNT)
36 Remember your relative Elizabeth. It is said that she cannot have children, but she herself is now six months pregnant, even though she is very old.

I also, went to an online Greek Bible and it translates the word “suggenhs” to mean relative.

So this would lead me to believe we don’t even know what her exact relationship was. Could have been her cousin. However, it is more reasonable to believe it was more likely Mary’s mother’s cousin since the verse does state “in her old age” and we know Mary was a teenager at the time.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[Reuben_J]

I think this pretty much comes down to which Bible you are looking at:

Luke 1:36 King James Version (KJV)
36 And, behold, thy cousin Elisabeth, she hath also conceived a son in her old age: and this is the sixth month with her, who was called barren.

Luke 1:36 New Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition (NRSVCE)
36 And now, your **relative **Elizabeth in her old age has also conceived a son; and this is the sixth month for her who was said to be barren.

Luke 1:36New American Bible (Revised Edition) (NABRE)
36 And behold, Elizabeth, your relative, has also conceived[a] a son in her old age, and this is the sixth month for her who was called barren;

Luke 1:36International Standard Version (ISV)
36 And listen! Elizabeth, your relative, has herself conceived a son in her old age, this woman who was rumored to be barren is in her sixth month.

Luke 1:36Good News Translation (GNT)
36 Remember your relative Elizabeth. It is said that she cannot have children, but she herself is now six months pregnant, even though she is very old.

I also, went to an online Greek Bible and it translates the word “suggenhs” to mean relative.

So this would lead me to believe we don’t even know what her exact relationship was. Could have been her cousin. However, it is more reasonable to believe it was more likely Mary’s mother’s cousin since the verse does state “in her old age” and we know Mary was a teenager at the time.

Just my 2 cents.

Yep, I wanted to say that. You are right, it depends on the translation. Obviously who use the Bible tend to translate it accordingly. I am not saying that it is deliberate but when there are options in word usage for the translation, it happens.

In any case, the fact that they did not have the word for cousin is a fact. It is not wrong also to translate Elizabeth as Mary’s cousin by virtue of their relation, since we do have a word for it.

 

[fnr]

My belief is that St. Joseph had children from a previous wife, who had died before his betrothal to Mary. That was the belief of the earliest Church Fathers. The notion that they were actually cousins dates to St. Jerome or afterward.

Due to the lack of hygienic conditions and medical care, many women died in childbirth. Roman tombstones indicate that the highest number of female deaths took place between the ages of 15 and 29, prime years for childbearing. As a result, many men had multiple wives, and could be considerably older than their wives. Roman law only required that a woman have her period for her to be considered marriageable, and could be legally back-validated even for marriages before the onset of menses. I think that’s the most reasonable explanation for (1) Jesus’ brothers and sisters and (2) the total absence of St. Joseph from Jesus’ adult ministry, including at Cana which preceded it.

I believe that many of the mentions of the brothers in the Lord in the gospels, particularly in Mark 3 and John 7, reflect a criticism by the evangelists of the Jerusalem Church, which was headed by James, “the Brother of the Lord” (affirmed in Josephus). Mark 3:21 indicated that the mother and the brothers of Jesus thought that he was insane. John 7:5 points out that the brothers of the Lord did not believe in him. From Acts, we see tension between the Jerusalem Church and other ministries, such as the mission in Antioch (founded by the Hellenists who had been kicked out of Jerusalem, see Acts 11:19) and Paul (see Acts 21 and Galatians 2). I believe that Mark and John were both criticizing James and Jerusalem Church by pointing out that the Lord’s relatives never followed him during his earthly ministry.

If you account for the fact that the members of the Jerusalem Church also referred to themselves as “the poor” (see Acts 11:29-30, Galatians 2:10, 1 Cor 16:1-4). If you hold that in mind, the statement of Christ in Mark 14:7 and John 12:8, that “you will always have the poor with you, but you will not have me” – could be be a criticism of the Jerusalem Church. In John 13:29, Jesus actually attributes Judas’ concern for the poor with his betrayal.

I think the “brethren” of the Lord were extremely controversial in the first century, not because of a dispute of whether they were cousins or brothers and sisters, but because they asserted authority within the early Church and there tension and conflict over it.

 

[Pulvis]

Good website for Bible study.
blueletterbible.org/lang/Lexicon/Lexicon.cfm?strongs=G4773&t=KJV

syggenēs

The KJV translates Strongs G4773 in the following manner: kinsman (7x), cousin (2x), kinsfolk (2x), kin (1x).

 

[Mintaka]

The literal meaning of “suggenes” is something like “born from the same kindred.” So it’s a pretty vague description of kinship. You could have something like a hundred or two hundred people in your extended family who qualified for that term.

 

[PJM]

I know the “brethren” of Jesus were the sons of Mary the wife of Cleophas, but I am confused by the language saying that Jesus had brothers and sisters, and the reasoning that there were no terms for “cousin,” when Luke 1:36 states that Elizabeth was Mary’s “cousin.” I’m not having a crisis of faith or anything like that, just curious what the answers are to this.

Previous Question Next Question

Mary’s Virginity/Jesus’ Brothers & Sisters
Question from Ron on 11/14/2005:
Father, the church teaches Mary maintained her virginity until taken into heaven. The bible speaks of Jesus’ “brothers and sisters”. Was this reference just used figuratively (generically) since how could Jesus have any bothers or sisters if Mary remained a virgin?

Answer by Fr. John Trigilio on 1/25/2006:
Good point. The Gospels were written in GREEK and Jesus spoke Aramaic and Hebrew. All three ancient languages did NOT have a separate word for ‘relative’ ‘cousin’ ‘aunt’ ‘uncle’ ‘niece’ or ‘nephew’. The Greek word ADELPHOS and Hebrew word ACH can be translated as “BROTHER” but it is also used to denote an extended relationship, like cousins or as in the case of Abraham and Lot, an uncle and his nephew. Genesis 14:14 and 14:16 use the word ACH in Hebrew (the Septuagint uses the Greek word ADELPHOS) and the King James Bible translates that as “brother” as in “his brother Lot.” Yet, Genesis 11:29, 31 show that Abram (Abraham) is the brother of Haran and Haran is the father of Lot, so in English, we say, Lot is Abram’s nephew or Abram is Lot’s Uncle. Ancient Hebrew and Greek did not have those words, so they either said it clumsily, as “Lot, the son of Abram’s brother, Haran” or they merely used the colloquial ‘brother’ as we would use the word ‘relative’ and say ‘brother’ Lot rather than ‘nephew’ Lot. If Lot can be called the ‘brother’ of his uncle Abraham, then the cousins and other relatives of Jesus can also be called ‘brethren’ or ‘brothers and sisters.’ IF the bible does it in one place, it can do it in another.

Secondly, had Jesus any siblings, where were they on Good Friday? Why was Jesus alone with His Mother if He had brothers and sisters? Why would He have given the Virgin Mary to Saint John to care for if He had siblings who would be bound by Jewish law and custom to care for their mother?

COPYRIGHT 201

 

[susanlo]

Luke 1:36
New International Version
Even Elizabeth your relative is going to have a child in her old age, and she who was said to be unable to conceive is in her sixth month.
Douay Rheims Bible
And behold thy cousin Elizabeth, she also hath conceived a son in her old age; and this is the sixth month with her that is called barren:
English Revised Version
And behold, Elisabeth thy kinswoman, she also hath conceived a son in her old age: and this is the sixth month with her that was called barren.

Luke 1:36 uses the term syngenis.biblehub.com/interlinear/luke/1-36.htm
According to Strong’s Concordance, this means: cousin, kin(-sfolk, -sman). biblehub.com/strongs/greek/4773.htm
Forms of syngenis are used 12 times in the NT and are translated relative/kinsmen. biblehub.com/greek/strongs_4773.htm

Mark 6:3
New International Version
Isn’t this the carpenter? Isn’t this Mary’s son and the brother of James, Joseph, Judas and Simon? Aren’t his sisters here with us?" And they took offense at him.
Douay-Rheims Bible
Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joseph, and Jude, and Simon? are not also his sisters here with us? And they were scandalized in regard of him.
English Revised Version
Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, and brother of James, and Joses, and Judas, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended in him.

Mark 6:3 (and Matthew 13:55-56) use the terms adelphos and adelphai. biblehub.com/interlinear/mark/6-3.htm
These are defined brother and sister. biblehub.com/strongs/greek/80.htm biblehub.com/strongs/greek/79.htm
These words are used many times in the New Testament to mean biological sibling or brother/sister in Christ. These 2 terms are never used to describe an extended family member or kinsman. biblehub.com/greek/strongs_80.htm biblehub.com/greek/strongs_79.htm

So the words in the 1st-century inspired Greek texts used to mention Jesus’ brothers and sisters in Mark 6:3 and Matthew 13:55-56 were exclusively used to refer to brother and sister.

 

[MT1926]

Mark 6:3 (and Matthew 13:55-56) use the terms adelphos and adelphai. biblehub.com/interlinear/mark/6-3.htm
These are defined brother and sister. biblehub.com/strongs/greek/80.htm biblehub.com/strongs/greek/79.htm
These words are used many times in the New Testament to mean biological sibling or brother/sister in Christ. These 2 terms are never used to describe an extended family member or kinsman. biblehub.com/greek/strongs_80.htm biblehub.com/greek/strongs_79.htm

So the words in the 1st-century inspired Greek texts used to mention Jesus’ brothers and sisters in Mark 6:3 and Matthew 13:55-56 were exclusively used to refer to brother and sister.

Susan,

I think you are mistaken here in regards to your claim of exclusively.

Here is a quote from another page on this web site:

It’s true that there is a more precise Greek word for cousin (anepsios), but it’s not true that adelphos can only mean a biological sibling. In Matthew 23:8 Jesus told us to call one another brothers (adelphoi), but obviously not in the biological sense of the word. In Matthew 13:55-56 four men are named as brothers (adelphoi) of the Lord: James, Joseph, Simon, and Jude. But if these men weren’t Jesus’ biological brothers, then who were they?

In John 19:25 we read, “Standing by the foot of the cross of Jesus were his mother and his mother’s sister, Mary the wife of Cleophas [emphasis added], and Mary of Magdala.” But Matthew 27:56 tells us that at the cross, “were Mary Magdalene and Mary the mother of James and Joseph, and the mother of the sons of Zebedee." This means that “Mary’s sister, Mary the Wife of Cleophas” is the same person as “Mary, the mother of James and Joseph.” Since it would have been very strange for two biological sisters to both share the same name, the two Mary’s probably shared a more distant kin relationship (thus showing once again that adlephe does not always refer to a biological sibling)

Therefore, just because these men were called “brothers” does not mean they were Jesus’ biological brothers and, for at least two of them, the evidence points away from this conclusion.

Also in regards to your never argument:

Lot, for example, is called Abraham’s “brother” (Gen. 14:14), even though, being the son of Haran, Abraham’s brother (Gen. 11:26–28), he was actually Abraham’s nephew. Similarly, Jacob is called the “brother” of his uncle Laban (Gen. 29:15). Kish and Eleazar were the sons of Mahli. Kish had sons of his own, but Eleazar had no sons, only daughters, who married their “brethren,” the sons of Kish. These “brethren” were really their cousins (1 Chr. 23:21–22).

The terms “brothers,” “brother,” and “sister” did not refer only to close relatives. Sometimes they meant kinsmen (Deut. 23:7; Neh. 5:7; Jer. 34:9), as in the reference to the fort

 

[susanlo]

Susan,

I think you are mistaken here in regards to your claim of exclusively.

Here is a quote from another page on this web site:

It’s true that there is a more precise Greek word for cousin (anepsios), but it’s not true that adelphos can only mean a biological sibling. In Matthew 23:8 Jesus told us to call one another brothers (adelphoi), but obviously not in the biological sense of the word. In Matthew 13:55-56 four men are named as brothers (adelphoi) of the Lord: James, Joseph, Simon, and Jude. But if these men weren’t Jesus’ biological brothers, then who were they?

In Matthew 23:8 Jesus is telling the 12 Apostles that they are to be brothers. They are brothers because they have been adopted by God the Father. The context of this passage seems to be about creating equality among the 12 Apostles. Later in Acts and in the epistles we see Christians being called brothers and sisters by each other. They are all adopted into sonship by God. While this does not mean the same thing as biological sibling, the relationship is one that is trying to be reflected. It goes along with the introduction in Jesus’ teaching that God is to be called Father - therefore His children are siblings.

In John 19:25 we read, “Standing by the foot of the cross of Jesus were his mother and his mother’s sister, Mary the wife of Cleophas [emphasis added], and Mary of Magdala.” But Matthew 27:56 tells us that at the cross, “were Mary Magdalene and Mary the mother of James and Joseph, and the mother of the sons of Zebedee." This means that “Mary’s sister, Mary the Wife of Cleophas” is the same person as “Mary, the mother of James and Joseph.” Since it would have been very strange for two biological sisters to both share the same name, the two Mary’s probably shared a more distant kin relationship (thus showing once again that adlephe does not always refer to a biological sibling)

Therefore, just because these men were called “brothers” does not mean they were Jesus’ biological brothers and, for at least two of them, the evidence points away from this conclusion.

I guess there are (at least) 4 ways to understand John 19:25:

1. This verse is about 4 women: His mother (1), His mother’s sister (2), Mary the wife of Cleophas (3), and Mary of Magdala (4).
2. His mother’s sister is the wife of Cleophas because they are sisters-in-law. This Mary may have been Joseph’s sister. Or Cleophas could have been Mary or Joseph’s brother. (Also, similarly, they could be step-sisters).
3. Jesus’ mother Mary had a sister named Mary who was wife of Cleophas.
4. Jesus’ mother Mary had a distant relation that was called sister despite not actually being a sister.

Also in regards to your never argument:
"Lot, for example, is called Abraham’s “brother” (Gen. 14:14), even though, being the son of Haran, Abraham’s brother (Gen. 11:26–28), he was actually Abraham’s nephew. Similarly, Jacob is called the “brother” of his uncle Laban (Gen. 29:15). Kish and Eleazar were the sons of Mahli. Kish had sons of his own, but Eleazar had no sons, only daughters, who married their “brethren,” the sons of Kish. These “brethren” were really their cousins (1 Chr. 23:21–22).

The terms “brothers,” “brother,” and “sister” did not refer only to close relatives. Sometimes they meant kinsmen (Deut. 23:7; Neh. 5:7; Jer. 34:9), as in the reference to the fort"

This is Old Testament Hebrew written over 1000 years before the Greek text we are discussing. I do agree that Hebrew (unlike Greek) does not have a way of distinguishing brother/sister from cousin from other relation. I don’t understand why this would be relevant.

 

[Todd977]

[Mark 6:3 (and Matthew 13:55-56) use the terms **adelphos

and adelphai. biblehub.com/interlinear/mark/6-3.htm
These are defined brother and sister. biblehub.com/strongs/greek/80.htm biblehub.com/strongs/greek/79.htm
These words are used many times in the New Testament to mean biological sibling or brother/sister in Christ. These 2 terms are never used to describe an extended family member or kinsman. biblehub.com/greek/strongs_80.htm biblehub.com/greek/strongs_79.htm

So the words in the 1st-century inspired Greek texts used to mention Jesus’ brothers and sisters in Mark 6:3 and Matthew 13:55-56 were exclusively used to refer to brother and sister.

In Acts 7:13, it says, “And at the second visit Joseph made himself known to his brothers (adelphos), and Joseph’s family became known to Pharaoh.” Of Joseph’s eleven brothers, only Benjamin was Joseph’s full brother, having the same father (Jacob) and mother (Rachel); the rest were Joseph’s half-brothers, having the same father (Jacob) but different mothers (Leah, Bilhah or Zilpah).

Since Jesus was known as “Joseph’s son” (Luke 4:22), the brothers and sisters of Jesus mentioned in Sacred Scripture, as far as New Testament usage is concerned, could refer to Joseph’s children by a previous marriage, as described in the second-century Protoevangelium of James, just as easily as they could refer to any other supposed children born to him of Mary.

 

[po18guy]

Keep in mind that the scriptures were written in at least three languages, and that all have been translated to a better or worse degree. Luke wrote in Greek, which has a word for cousin. For ancient Hebrew/Aramaic language usage of “brother” or “sister”, please read the Book of Tobit. Aside from being a wonderfully edifying book, you will see that a man married his “sister” - but that meant only that she was from his same tribe (of the twelve tribes). The same with “brother.” In many parts of the world to this day, “brother” or “sister” still means anyone from your same town or village.

 

[po18guy]

Luke 1:36
New International Version
Even Elizabeth your relative is going to have a child in her old age, and she who was said to be unable to conceive is in her sixth month.
Douay Rheims Bible
And behold thy cousin Elizabeth, she also hath conceived a son in her old age; and this is the sixth month with her that is called barren:
English Revised Version
And behold, Elisabeth thy kinswoman, she also hath conceived a son in her old age: and this is the sixth month with her that was called barren.

Luke 1:36 uses the term syngenis.biblehub.com/interlinear/luke/1-36.htm
According to Strong’s Concordance, this means: cousin, kin(-sfolk, -sman). biblehub.com/strongs/greek/4773.htm
Forms of syngenis are used 12 times in the NT and are translated relative/kinsmen. biblehub.com/greek/strongs_4773.htm

Mark 6:3
New International Version
Isn’t this the carpenter? Isn’t this Mary’s son and the brother of James, Joseph, Judas and Simon? Aren’t his sisters here with us?" And they took offense at him.
Douay-Rheims Bible
Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joseph, and Jude, and Simon? are not also his sisters here with us? And they were scandalized in regard of him.
English Revised Version
Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, and brother of James, and Joses, and Judas, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended in him.

Mark 6:3 (and Matthew 13:55-56) use the terms adelphos and adelphai. biblehub.com/interlinear/mark/6-3.htm
These are defined brother and sister. biblehub.com/strongs/greek/80.htm biblehub.com/strongs/greek/79.htm
These words are used many times in the New Testament to mean biological sibling or brother/sister in Christ. These 2 terms are never used to describe an extended family member or kinsman. biblehub.com/greek/strongs_80.htm biblehub.com/greek/strongs_79.htm

So the words in the 1st-century inspired Greek texts used to mention Jesus’ brothers and sisters in Mark 6:3 and Matthew 13:55-56 were exclusively used to refer to brother and sister.

This is the post-reformation, Protestant view, but it does not accord with history. Best to rely on the Church for linguistic usage regarding relationships, rather than a dictionary. If you had the Book of Tobit in your bible, such ancient Hebrew language use would be clear.

 

[Todd977]

[Mark 6:3 (and Matthew 13:55-56) use the terms **adelphos

and adelphai. biblehub.com/interlinear/mark/6-3.htm
These are defined brother and sister. biblehub.com/strongs/greek/80.htm biblehub.com/strongs/greek/79.htm
These words are used many times in the New Testament to mean biological sibling or brother/sister in Christ. These 2 terms are never used to describe an extended family member or kinsman. biblehub.com/greek/strongs_80.htm biblehub.com/greek/strongs_79.htm

So the words in the 1st-century inspired Greek texts used to mention Jesus’ brothers and sisters in Mark 6:3 and Matthew 13:55-56 were exclusively used to refer to brother and sister.

In Acts 2:29, Peter addressing the crowd of Jews in Jerusalem, saying, “Brethren (adelphos), I may say to you confidently of the patriarch David that he both died and was buried, and his tomb is with us to this day.”

In response to Peter’s speech, the crowd of Jews said to the Peter and the rest of the Apostles, "Brethren (adelphos), what shall we do?” (Acts 2:37)

In Acts 3:12,17, Peter addressing the people at Solomon’s Portico, said, "Men of Israel, … brethren (adelphos), I know that you acted in ignorance, as did also your rulers.

In Acts 7:2, Stephen addressed the Jewish Council in Jerusalem, saying, “Brethren (adelphos) and fathers, hear me.”

Later in his speech, in Acts 7:23, Stephen said of Moses, “When he was forty years old, it came into his heart to visit his brethren (adelphos), the sons of Israel. 24 And seeing one of them being wronged, he defended the oppressed man and avenged him by striking the Egyptian. 25 He supposed that his brethren (adelphos) understood that God was giving them deliverance by his hand, but they did not understand. 26 And on the following day he appeared to them as they were quarreling and would have reconciled them, saying, ‘Men, you are brethren (adelphos), why do you wrong each other?’”

Barnabas and Paul went into the synagogue at Antioch of Pisidia and "after the reading of the law and the prophets, the rulers of the synagogue sent to them, saying, “Brethren (adelphos), if you have any word of exhortation for the people, say it.” So Paul stood up, and motioning with his hand said, 'Men of Israel, and you that fear God, listen . . . Brethren (adelphos), sons of the family of Abraham, and those among you that fear God, to us has been sent the message of this salvation . . . Let it be known to you therefore, brethren (adelphos), that through this man forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you, (Acts 13:15-16,26,38)

When Paul was arrested at the Temple in Jerusalem he addressed the people, saying, “Brethren (adelphos) and fathers, hear the defense which I now make before you.” (Acts 22:1)

I’m not an expert in Greek but the above examples from the New Testament seem to show that the word “brethren” (adelphos) had a much broader usage at the time than you suppose and seems to have been used to mean anything from “full brother” to the much more general “fellow Jew” or, as you pointed out in the case of Christians, “fellow Christian.”

 

[Duane1966]

catholic.com/tracts/brethren-of-the-lord

This article explains it well.

 

[MT1926]

In Matthew 23:8 Jesus is telling the 12 Apostles that they are to be brothers.

. I have no arguments that as Christians we are all brothers and sisters. However, you have me confused here. We were discussing Matthew 13:55-56. It seemed like you were trying to say James and Joseph and Simon and Judas were Jesus biological brothers? I have no problem with brothers in Christ but I see no evidence of them being our Blessed Mothers children.

I guess there are (at least) 4 ways to understand John 19:25:

1. This verse is about 4 women: His mother (1), His mother’s sister (2), Mary the wife of Cleophas (3), and Mary of Magdala (4).

1. His mother’s sister is the wife of Cleophas because they are sisters-in-law. This Mary may have been Joseph’s sister. Or Cleophas could have been Mary or Joseph’s brother. (Also, similarly, they could be step-sisters).

1. Jesus’ mother Mary had a sister named Mary who was wife of Cleophas.

1. Jesus’ mother Mary had a distant relation that was called sister despite not actually being a sister.

I am not quite sure what your point is here. The verse has 4 women in it but I don’t understand your explanations or where you are going with it. Once again I was putting together 2 Bible verse to help you see who James and Joseph were and you ignored what I said about the verse and respond about something irrelevant. We can’t take one verse of the Bible and come to a conclusion. We have to read every verse in the context of the paragraph, which is read in context of the chapter, which is read in the context of the entire Bible. When we do this it helps us come to a better conclusion and understanding. For instance if we read John 19:25 along with Matthew 27:56 and Mark 15:40 we come to a better conclusion.

John 19:25
25 So the soldiers did this. But standing by the cross of Jesus were his mother, and his mother’s sister, Mary the wife of Clopas, and Mary Mag′dalene.

Matthew 27:56
56 among whom were Mary Mag′dalene, and Mary the mother of James and Joseph, and the mother of the sons of Zeb′edee.

Mark 15:40
40 There were also women looking on from afar, among whom were Mary Mag′dalene, and Mary the mother of James the younger[a] and of Joses, and Salo′me,

All 3 passages are taking place at the same time frame. All passages speak of 3 women, John mentions Jesus’ mother as well. All 3 mention May Mag’dalene so she is identified. All 3 speak of another Mary, in John she is the wife of Clopas and in Matthew the other Mary is the mother of James and Joseph. We can come to the conclusion that this is the same Mary in all 3 gospels, the wife of Clopas and the mother of James and Joseph. Now there is a forth woman in all three gospels and a peice of information is given about her in each gospel. By putting all three gospels together we can come to a logical conclusion that the forth woman is Salo’me, Jesus’ mother’s sister, who is the mother of the sons of Zeb’edee (James and John).

This is Old Testament Hebrew written over 1000 years before the Greek text we are discussing. I do agree that Hebrew (unlike Greek) does not have a way of distinguishing brother/sister from cousin from other relation. I don’t understand why this would be relevant.

No argument here. I will refer you to Todd who had a much better explaination than I did.

In Acts 2:29, Peter addressing the crowd of Jews in Jerusalem, saying, “Brethren (adelphos), I may say to you confidently of the patriarch David that he both died and was buried, and his tomb is with us to this day.”

In response to Peter’s speech, the crowd of Jews said to the Peter and the rest of the Apostles, "Brethren (adelphos), what shall we do?” (Acts 2:37)

In Acts 3:12,17, Peter addressing the people at Solomon’s Portico, said, "Men of Israel, … brethren (adelphos), I know that you acted in ignorance, as did also your rulers.

In Acts 7:2, Stephen addressed the Jewish Council in Jerusalem, saying, “Brethren (adelphos) and fathers, hear me.”

Later in his speech, in Acts 7:23, Stephen said of Moses, “When he was forty years old, it came into his heart to visit his brethren (adelphos), the sons of Israel. 24 And seeing one of them being wronged, he defended the oppressed man and avenged him by striking the Egyptian. 25 He supposed that his brethren (adelphos) understood that God was giving them deliverance by his hand, but they did not understand. 26 And on the following day he appeared to them as they were quarreling and would have reconciled them, saying, ‘Men, you are brethren (adelphos), why do you wrong each other?’”

Barnabas and Paul went into the synagogue at Antioch of Pisidia and "after the reading of the law and the prophets, the rulers of the synagogue sent to them, saying, “Brethren (adelphos), if you have any word of exhortation for the people, say it.” So Paul stood up, and motioning with his hand said, 'Men of Israel, and you that fear God, listen . . . Brethren (adelphos), sons of the family of Abraham, and those among you that fear God, to us has been sent the message of this salvation . . . Let it be known to you therefore, brethren (adelphos), that through this man forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you, (Acts 13:15-16,26,38)

When Paul was arrested at the Temple in Jerusalem he addressed the people, saying, “Brethren (adelphos) and fathers, hear the defense which I now make before you.” (Acts 22:1)

I’m not an expert in Greek but the above examples from the New Testament seem to show that the word “brethren” (adelphos) had a much broader usage at the time than you suppose and seems to have been used to mean anything from “full brother” to the much more general “fellow Jew” or, as you pointed out in the case of Christians, “fellow Christian.”

 

[susanlo]

I have no arguments that as Christians we are all brothers and sisters. However, you have me confused here. We were discussing Matthew 13:55-56. It seemed like you were trying to say James and Joseph and Simon and Judas were Jesus biological brothers? I have no problem with brothers in Christ but I see no evidence of them being our Blessed Mothers children.

Matthew 23:8 "But you are not to be called ‘Rabbi,’ for you have one Teacher, and you are all brothers [adelphoi].

They were brothers because they were equals under the father God. They shared a heavenly parent, but not an earthly parent. (I guess a few of the Apostles - Simon Peter/Andrew and James/John were biological brothers, but that isn’t what this is about).

Matthew 13:54 Coming to his hometown, he began teaching the people in their synagogue, and they were amazed. “Where did this man get this wisdom and these miraculous powers?” they asked. 55 “Isn’t this the carpenter’s son? Isn’t his mother’s name Mary, and aren’t his brothers [adelphoi] James, Joseph, Simon and Judas? 56 Aren’t all his sisters [adelphai] with us? Where then did this man get all these things?” 57 And they took offense at him.

Were James, Joseph, Simon, Judas and unnamed sisters/adelphai singled out because they were children of God the Father, the only fellow Jews in the area, or were they talking about a family relationship? It seems like they are using it in terms of a biological family relationship, and in NT Greek forms of adelphio and adelphai are not used to describe cousins, aunts, uncles and distant relations. This doesn’t mean that these couldn’t be step-brothers/sisters (or half-brothers/sisters to those in the community who considered Jesus to be the carpenter’s son).

I am not quite sure what your point is here. The verse has 4 women in it but I don’t understand your explanations or where you are going with it. Once again I was putting together 2 Bible verse to help you see who James and Joseph were and you ignored what I said about the verse and respond about something irrelevant. We can’t take one verse of the Bible and come to a conclusion. We have to read every verse in the context of the paragraph, which is read in context of the chapter, which is read in the context of the entire Bible. When we do this it helps us come to a better conclusion and understanding. For instance if we read John 19:25 along with Matthew 27:56 and Mark 15:40 we come to a better conclusion.

John 19:25
25 So the soldiers did this. But standing by the cross of Jesus were his mother, and his mother’s sister, Mary the wife of Clopas, and Mary Mag′dalene.

Matthew 27:56
56 among whom were Mary Mag′dalene, and Mary the mother of James and Joseph, and the mother of the sons of Zeb′edee.

Mark 15:40
40 There were also women looking on from afar, among whom were Mary Mag′dalene, and Mary the mother of James the younger[a] and of Joses, and Salo′me,

All 3 passages are taking place at the same time frame. All passages speak of 3 women, John mentions Jesus’ mother as well. All 3 mention May Mag’dalene so she is identified. All 3 speak of another Mary, in John she is the wife of Clopas and in Matthew the other Mary is the mother of James and Joseph. We can come to the conclusion that this is the same Mary in all 3 gospels, the wife of Clopas and the mother of James and Joseph. Now there is a forth woman in all three gospels and a peice of information is given about her in each gospel. By putting all three gospels together we can come to a logical conclusion that the forth woman is Salo’me, Jesus’ mother’s sister, who is the mother of the sons of Zeb’edee (James and John).

The original quotation from post #11 claims that Mary’s sister [adelphē] is the same woman as Mary the wife of Cleophas and the mother of James and Joseph. It claims that it would be unusual to have two biological sisters both named Mary, and therefore adelphē means distant relation. I think there could be other explanations such as Mary’s sister in John 19:25 referring to a different woman than Mary the wife of Cleophas as you are stating as well. I read somewhere that some of the original texts have an ‘and’ between them, but there is some ambiguity.
Either way, just because a lady named Mary (wife of Clopas/Cleophas) had 2 sons named James and Joseph it doesn’t mean that Mary (Jesus’ mother) could have not possibly had a son Jesus, and other sons/step-sons named James, Joseph, Simon and Judas. These are all very common names used by many people in this New Testament era.

No argument here. I will refer you to Todd who had a much better explaination than I did.

I see now that in the 1st Century Jewish people referred to fellow Jews as brother and sister. This is similar to Christians calling each other brother and sister. They aren’t using this term to describe a specific family relationship, but a general “brotherhood.” I agree that the term was used this way. However, they never used it to denote someone who is a cousin or relative. It seems they would either use the term ‘syngenis’ discussed earlier that means kinsman, or ‘anepsios’ which is the Greek word for cousin (Colossians 4:10) to describe a cousin or other extended family relationship.

 

[rcwitness]

I have wondered how St James is related to Jesus.

Galatians 1:19
But I saw none of the other apostles except James the Lord’s brother.

… seems he must be considered step brother, for Catholics. This may be why he was afforded the position of Bishop of Jerusalem?