Jesus Brother James

[Exporter]

Mary had no children after Jesus Christ. There are volumes written about this topic.

Very briefly; when Joseph and Mary were married everyone knew that Mary who had been “Temple” girl would never have carnal relations. When the Angel Gabreal came, Mary was a virgin- read it.(Luke 1: 26 on)Joseph was an Elderly man at the time of the marriage. This kind of marriage was common, the man would allow the wife to stay at his house so people would not think the Jewish priests were being personal with the older Temple girls. JOSEPH HAD SEVERAL SONS BY HIS FIRST WIFE WHO HAD DIED. So Mary was a step-mother to Joseph’'s sons who were older than Jesus.

go see, kensmen.com/catholic/protoevangelium.html

GO TO CHAPTER IX TO SEE JOSEPH AND MARY (Chapter 9)

 

[Ghosty]

On the basis of what has been stated it is quite clear, that Jesus had brothers and sisters and Mary was mother of all.

No, because the words used are the words for female and male cousins. In Aramaic, and many modern languages as well, brother and sister are used to refer to any relative of the same generation. This is espescially common in cultures with large extended families, where the individual family unit is subordinate to the entire extended family, and elders have a high place of honor. In such cultures, it’s more important to denote one’s place in the family hierarchy, and a “brother” is simply a male relative who is in equal standing in the family.

 

[Kostja]

Tom:

Kostja, welcome to the forum

Thank you very much, Tom.

“It states that James is NOT the biological “brother” to Jesus, unless of course you are arguing that Joseph is the BIOLOGICAL father of Jesus. It is in the EXACT same relationship and they are NOT biological”! QUOTE=Tom

Thath´s right, what you say, “James is NOT the biological “brother” to Jesus”.

Isa 7:14 we can reading.

“Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.” It is quite clear, that Jesus is The Son of God and his Mother was virgin Mary, but if we are quite exact, we must pay regard to context. Here we can read Matthew 13:" And when he was come into his own country, he taught them in their synagogue, insomuch that they were astonished, and said, Whence hath this man this wisdom, and these mighty works"? Jews scribes dount´t belief, that Jesus was The Son of God and so the says Matthew 13: 55-56 “Is not this the carpenter’s son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas? And his sisters, are they not all with us”? The context, where Jews speaks Jesus and his brothers and sisters is quite clear. We can say as well, that Jesus was half-brother, of course, but Mary was mother of all. In this way I understand, what Matthew says in his gospel.

Blessing and peace for you.

Kostja

 

[st_julie]

I read somewhere that one needs an understanding of tribal language.

st julie

 

[Eden]

St. Julie, were you referring to the article “Bad Aramaic Made Easy”?

catholic.com/library/Bad_Aramaic_Made_Easy.asp

Some excerpts:

"It is unlikely that the term “brother” is being used figuratively or mystically because all Christians are Christ’s brothers in that sense, making it pointless to single out certain individuals for this description. Full brother is impossible, as Protestants also acknowledge, since Jesus was not the biological child of Joseph. Half-brother is ruled out by the fact that Mary remained a virgin. It is possible they were adoptive brothers, but there does not seem to be any evidence for this in the biblical or patristic record.

More plausibly, they were step-brothers: children of Joseph who were Jesus’ brothers by marriage. There is some evidence for this in the writings of early Christians. The earliest discussion of the matter that we have–in a document known as the Protoevangelium of James (c. A.D. 120)–states that Joseph was a widower who already had a family and thus was willing to become the guardian of a consecrated virgin. Though not inspired, the document was written within living memory of Mary, when Christ’s family was still well known, as other sources attest (e.g., second century historian Hegisippus). It may contain accurate traditions regarding the family structure.

The step-brother hypothesis was the most common until St. Jerome (the turn of the fifth century), who popularized the idea that the brethren were cousins. One would not guess this from a casual reading of the New Testament, but many have tried to deduce it from statements in the New Testament.

Part of the issue turns on the meaning of the word “brother.” Thus far we have been discussing the English word brother for simplicity. The Greek equivalent (adelphos) includes the same concepts in its range of meaning. But Greek also has a word for “cousin” (anepsios), which seems to have been the normal word used when referring to cousins. An advocate of the cousin hypothesis would need to explain why it wasn’t used if Christ’s brethren were cousins."

“The conclusion thus seems inescapable: Witherington is wrong. There is no Aramaic word for cousin, and there certainly is no evidence that there was one in first-century Aramaic…
If he cannot then—however nice a guy he may be—Witherington behaved irresponsibly by asserting in popular print that there is such a word. In so doing he misled people of multiple religious persuasions, disturbed the faith of some, confused others, and sparked a round of needless arguments.”

 

[VociMike]

Heck, even English has a tradition of “brother” meaning more than just “a son by one or both of my parents”. Consider the song “Brother, Can You Spare a Dime?”

 

[Kostja]

Posted by thessalonian

“John 19
25: So the soldiers did this. But standing by the cross of Jesus were his mother, and his mother’s sister, Mary the wife of Clopas, and Mary Mag’dalene”.


I ask first, was Clopas carpenter?

Blessings to you

 

[Tom]

Kostja:

We can say as well, that Jesus was half-brother, of course, but Mary was mother of all.

This is not stated in Scripture, it is conjecture, you have to admit there are several different possibilities:
• These brothers and sisters are in reality “cousins”, as in Gn 14 reference to Lot.
• These brothers and sisters are “half” brothers and sisters and not children of Mary, but only of Joseph. Scripture does not say children of Mary, in fact in all of Scripture Jesus is the only person to be identified as son the of Mary.
• These are “brethren” and not related at all.
These are just some of the possibilities, nowhere in Scripture does it say these are children of Mary. The ONLY reason I can figure anyone would dispute the Catholic teaching is an attempt to disprove the Church, is there any other reason you can think of?

 

[Axion]

Eden:

Part of the issue turns on the meaning of the word “brother.” Thus far we have been discussing the English word brother for simplicity. The Greek equivalent (adelphos) includes the same concepts in its range of meaning. But Greek also has a word for “cousin” (anepsios), which seems to have been the normal word used when referring to cousins. An advocate of the cousin hypothesis would need to explain why it wasn’t used if Christ’s brethren were cousins."

Quite simple. Matthew 13.55 is reported speech.The people of Nazareth were speaking, not in **Greek ** but in Aramaic.

The word **brother ** in Aramaic has the wider meaning including kinsman. Greek has no exact equivalent. So translate the word into Greek and the closer word becomes (adelphos) with a much narrower meaning.

 

[Axion]

Kostja:

Matthew 13: 55-56 “Is not this the carpenter’s son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas? And his sisters, are they not all with us”? The context, where Jews speaks Jesus and his brothers and sisters is quite clear. We can say as well, that Jesus was half-brother, of course, but Mary was mother of all. In this way I understand, what Matthew says in his gospel.

And this is the problem with trying to understand 1st Century texts reporting ancient Hebrew culture, on the basis of twenty first century suburban western attitudes and a poor English translation.

The words “brothers” and “sisters” in Aramaic - and in many other languages has a meaning that extends to all close kinsfolk.

In fact while James and Joses are mentioned as Jesus’s brothers in Matthew 13:55, it is made clear in Mathew 27:56 and Mark 15:40 that their mother was ANOTHER Mary.

Matthew 27.55 There were also many women there, looking on from afar, who had followed Jesus from Galilee, ministering to him; 56 among whom were Mary Mag’dalene, and Mary the mother of James and Joseph, and the mother of the sons of Zeb’edee.

This other Mary is identified in John 19:25, where a literal translation of the original Greek states. “But by he cross of Jesus the Mother of Him AND the sister of the Mother of Him, Mary the wife of Cleopas AND Mary the Magdalene.”
The precise positioning of the ANDs makes it clear that there were three women called Mary here, and that Mary the wife of Cleophas (called the Virgin Mary’s sister) is the same as the mother of Joses and James.

Jude/Judas identifies himself in his epistle as BROTHER of James, but significantly only as SERVANT of Jesus. To have identified himself as Jesus’s blood brother would have added enormous weight to his epistle, but he doesn’t so identify himself here. We know the reason, because James and Joseph are identified as sons of the OTHER Mary in Matthew 27 and Mark 15. Judas then seems to be another son of Mary the wife of Clopas.

 

[Axion]

The Third Apostle James?

In order to allege that the Apostle James, “brother” of Jesus was a Son of Mary, you have to invent a shadowy third Apostle called James. Is this credible?

James “Brother of Jesus” is referred to as one of the APOSTLES by Paul in Galatians 1.9. Yet we know from Matthew 10:2-4 that neither of the Apostles named James was actually a Son of the Virgin Mary! One of the Apostles James, is however, the Son of ALPHAEUS, who most bible scholars agree is the same person as Clopas - already identified as Father of James and Joseph.

So if James “brother of Jesus” was an Apostle, he cannot have been a son of Mary.

One can argue that a **third ** James, supposed blood brother of Jesus, was elevated to the Apostleship at some time after the resurrection. However this presents a number of difficulties.

a) Why is this “third James” **never ** mentioned in the gospel accounts?
b) Why would the Apostles take a non-apostle as their leader in Jerusalem?
b) Why is the 3rd James’s elevation to Apostle not mentioned in scripture?
c) Why did Jesus give Mary as Mother to John, if this “third James” existed?
d) What happened to the “second” James, son of Alphaeus after the resurrection? If we imagine a “third James”, then James the Apostle, son of Alphaeus disappears from history mysteriously at exactly the same time the supposed “third James”, just as mysteriously appears.

Is it not obvious that it is James the Apostle, Cousin of Jesus, who is the Apostle and “brother of the Lord” of the early church in Jerusalem?

The “Third James” hypothesis doesn’t hold water.

 

[wjhii]

The fact is that James is Jesus’ half brother. The church refuses to accept that Mary and Joesph had sexual relations after Christ’s virgin birth. Facts are facts and James was the true brother of Christ and the Virgin Mary was James mother.

jamjostab:

How do we explain Jesus brother James (galatians1:1-24) to a protestant from scripture and the Chuch History.

 

[Nan_S]

wjhii:

The fact is that James is Jesus’ half brother. The church refuses to accept that Mary and Joesph had sexual relations after Christ’s virgin birth. Facts are facts and James was the true brother of Christ and the Virgin Mary was James mother.

I’m still waiting for you to provide evidence that backs up this statement. Please tell me which bible verse says the Virgin birthed a second child.

 

[mlchance]

wjhii:

The fact is that James is Jesus’ half brother. The church refuses to accept that Mary and Joesph had sexual relations after Christ’s virgin birth. Facts are facts and James was the true brother of Christ and the Virgin Mary was James mother.

As has been pointed out already, Scripture tells us the parents of both Apostles named James:
Matthew 10:2-3: The names of the twelve apostles are these: first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zeb’edee, and John his brother; Philip and Bartholomew; Thomas and Matthew the tax collector; James the son of Alphaeus, and Thaddaeus…
Neither James is Joseph’s son; therefore, Mary is not the mother of either James.

It’s really not that complicated.

– Mark L. Chance.

 

[Zooey]

Axion:

The words “brothers” and “sisters” in Aramaic - and in many other languages has a meaning that extends to all close kinsfolk.
In fact while James and Joses are mentioned as Jesus’s brothers in Matthew 13:55, it is made clear in Mathew 27:56 and Mark 15:40 that their mother was ANOTHER Mary.
Matthew 27.55 There were also many women there, looking on from afar, who had followed Jesus from Galilee, ministering to him; 56 among whom were Mary Mag’dalene, and Mary the mother of James and Joseph, and the mother of the sons of Zeb’edee.
This other Mary is identified in John 19:25, where a literal translation of the original Greek states. “But by he cross of Jesus the Mother of Him AND the sister of the Mother of Him, Mary the wife of Cleopas AND Mary the Magdalene.”
The precise positioning of the ANDs makes it clear that there were three women called Mary here, and that Mary the wife of Cleophas (called the Virgin Mary’s sister) is the same as the mother of Joses and James.
.

Terrific post!!!
Mary the mother of Jesus never had another child.
Even in modern English, identifying other relatives can be tricky. How many of you who say these were Jesus’ literal full brothers know the difference between a 2nd cousin & a 1st cousin once removed??? (I happen to, because I’m so darn smart …No, but I have both, living in the same area, but they are just “cousins” to the rest of the world.)

 

[Tom]

wjhii:

The fact is that James is Jesus’ half brother. The church refuses to accept that Mary and Joesph had sexual relations after Christ’s virgin birth. Facts are facts and James was the true brother of Christ and the Virgin Mary was James mother.

Again, show us specifically in Scripture where it says they are the children of the virgin Mary. Everyone has explained it quite well, even given Scriptural proof, where’s yours?
As far as the “brother” vs. “cousin” discussion, PLEASE refer to an ancient Aramaic dictionary for the word brother, then for the word cousin, they are one in the same, although there are several different spellings (around 30 if I recall correctly) since Aramaic was mainly a spoken language and there were several different dialects, there Are also differences between male and female, one of the spellings is AHah, I remember that as “AHA” like see! It means “kinsman”, brother, nephew, cousin (male), uncle. If you need to specify the exact relationship you would have to describe the relationship
thru the males family, for example: John the Baptist would be called the AHah of Jesus, if you needed to know the exact relationship it would be described as John, son of Zacharia husband to Elisabeth, sister to Mary, wife of Joseph.

Luke 1:5 - THERE was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth

But please don’t take my word for it look it up the research is fun.
From a previous thread:

Tom:

Have you ever wondered about Mary’s perpetual virginity? I know the arguments about the “brothers and sisters” could be cousins and nephews, Jesus didn’t speak Greek, He spoke Aramaic. I’d just like to give my opinion. Please note it’s only mine, not the Catholic Churches.
First of all, I don’t think anything in Scripture is by chance, it all has a purpose. I’m not a quoter, I feel giving exact verses often results in taking things out of context, so I will only site chapter, read it all, it won’t hurt.
I find it interesting that, Mt and Lk approach the annunciation (of the birth of Jesus) from different perspectives. Mt, Chap 1 addresses the annunciation from Joseph’s side, while Lk Chap 1 addresses it from Mary’s. I think this is very significant when viewed from the OT book of Numbers.
We know Mary is a young teenager engaged to be married to Joseph. We know they are both good and pious Jews. We know Mary has knowledge of how children are conceived (I know not man). We know that at that time it was not unusual for engaged couples to have sexual relations, actually being engaged was considered a part of being married. We also know that Mary and Joseph did not yet have sexual relations. The question we must ask ourselves is, did Mary and Joseph intend to have sexual relations after their marriage? Now before you go ballistic, it was not uncommon to dedicate yourself to God, actually if we read Numbers chaps 27-30 we’ll find there were even laws concerning these vows.
When we read the rendering in Lk, the angel greets her and tells her she is to conceive in her womb and bare a son. Sounds simple enough doesn’t it? Put yourself in Mary’s place. So, I’m engaged to Joseph, we will marry, and have a child, it will be a son. Any question? Shouldn’t be “if” we intended to have sexual relations after marriage. “If” we didn’t intend to have sexual relations after our marriage then we’d ask “how can this be”?
The question “how can this be"? makes absolutely no sense if they intended to have sexual relations, remember she knew “how”. So why did she ask “how can this be”?

 

[Kostja]

Axion:

There were also many women there, looking on from afar, who had followed Jesus from Galilee, ministering to him; 56 among whom were Mary Mag’dalene, and Mary the mother of James and Joseph, and the mother of the sons of Zeb’edee.

I Wonder, how we can belive The Son on The God, but in same time we doun´t belive, what Matthew says in his gospel 13:53-57

We can speculate forever, what Matthew says 27.55, but the context, where Jews speaks of Jesus and his brothers and sisters is quite clear.

I´m busy now, but I come back yet in better time.

bye-bye

 

[bettyg51]

wjhii:

The fact is that James is Jesus’ half brother. The church refuses to accept that Mary and Joesph had sexual relations after Christ’s virgin birth. Facts are facts and James was the true brother of Christ and the Virgin Mary was James mother.

I have a web site that explains all the verses about the so called “brothers” of Jesus.
geocities.com/bettyg51/BrothersJesus.htm
If someone is the son of one person, they cannot be the son of another man. The Bible never calls anyone the son of Joseph and Mary except for Jesus.
Betty

 

[Mad_Amos]

A simple question, then: upon His death, to which of Jesus’ brothers was the care of His mother entrusted?

 

[Malachi4U]

Ask your friend to find references before the 1850’s that refer to Jesus having siblings. You will find that there are virtually none! Why the false doctrine of Jesus and siblings? What happened in the mid 1850’s? Look at when the Church declared Blessed Mary erver virgin infallibly and when the Protestants invented opinions to cut her and the Church down. This sibling stuff was invented to discredit the Church. The church fathers taught blessed Mary was ever virgin! (I recall 1 early writting that talked about the possibility of siblings and thats all I could find.)

What would you say if some guy came into your work and said, “Hi, I’m the son of God and these are my brothers and sisters and this is my mother. Oh yeah, I was born from a virgin too before my stepdad knew my mom. Yeah they were living together but they never knew each other till I was born!” You’d laugh so hard your side would hurt and you’d go home to change your shorts! Reminds me of my cousins wedding. 5-6 months after the wedding his wife had a 9 pound baby and claimed the child was 3 months premature! I could only laugh! Of course my wifes Protestant grandmother believed the story till the day she died. Who was it, Barnum? He said there was one born every minute? To believe Jesus had siblings based on Scripture and history you would have to be one of Barnums favorite clients.