Jesus' Brothers and Sisters...

[gryskull]

Milliardo:

Someone in another board wrote concerning Matthew 13:54-56 reads in Greek to mean Jesus’ biological brothers and sisters (delphos in greek refers to biological brother and adelphe refers to biological sister. Those were the words used in the original greek manuscript. Both word had their root in delphus which means womb–what he wrote). What is the response to this assertion? For reference, here is the thread:

I actually did a paper on this subject. I tried to be as detailed as possible. Click this link if you want to see it. Hope this helps.

 

[Milliardo]

gryskull:

I actually did a paper on this subject. I tried to be as detailed as possible. Click this link if you want to see it. Hope this helps.

Thanks for this! Good job on the paper, btw. It is short but concise. Maybe you could also add your name there, though, in case anyone might reference it.

 

[thistle]

2Samuel, 7:23,
.

So Michal had a child after she died?

Matt. 28:29 -

After the end of the world, Christ will leave us??

Luke 2: 36-37

So Anna’s husband was resurrected when she was 84, and thus no longer a widow?

.

You have given several examples of sentences using the word “until” presumably implying that Mary and Joseph did not have normal marital relations after the birth of Jesus. What then is the meaning of the verse in Matthew: “He had no relations with her until she bore a son, and he named him Jesus”. You haven’t told me what you think this means.

 

[gryskull]

thistle:

You have given several examples of sentences using the word “until” presumably implying that Mary and Joseph did not have normal marital relations after the birth of Jesus. What then is the meaning of the verse in Matthew: “He had no relations with her until she bore a son, and he named him Jesus”. You haven’t told me what you think this means.

that means that mary didn’t have relations with joseph up to a certain point(the birth of Jesus). But what it doesn’t tell us is anything after that point. there is nothing in that verse that we can actually infer to happening after the birth of Jesus. if we did then that would be just mere speculation on our part. we do rely on information from the ECF(not early christian writers to make a distinction, origen is not an ECF) to tell us about the status of mary. even mainstream protestant fathers believe in the perpetual virginity of mary.

 

[gryskull]

thistle:

You have given several examples of sentences using the word “until” presumably implying that Mary and Joseph did not have normal marital relations after the birth of Jesus. What then is the meaning of the verse in Matthew: “He had no relations with her until she bore a son, and he named him Jesus”. You haven’t told me what you think this means.

that means that mary didn’t have relations with joseph up to a certain point(the birth of Jesus). But what it doesn’t tell us is anything after that. there is nothing in that verse that we can actually infer to happening after the birth of Jesus. if we did then that would be just mere speculation on our part. we do rely on information from the ECF(not early christian writers to make a distinction, origen is not an ECF) to tell us about the status of mary. even mainstream protestant fathers believe in the perpetual virginity of mary.

try to read st. jeromes writing to helvidius. he clearly explains that verse in detail.

 

[thistle]

Don’t get me wrong. I believe in Mary ever Virgin, even though it would not affect my faith if she had normal marital relations after the birth of Jesus. The only reason I am pressing on the “until” point is that is the verse I get referred to when people tell me she was not ever virgin so I merely wanted an opinion on what it meant to others. Also the Notes in the NAB Catholic Study Bible I have leaves this point open by saying the word “until” in this verse neither includes nor excludes normal relations after the birth of Jesus.

 

[gryskull]

thistle:

Don’t get me wrong. I believe in Mary ever Virgin, even though it would not affect my faith if she had normal marital relations after the birth of Jesus.

I guess for you it won’t but for many catholics who have defended this statement , it will. This definitely can make or break the catholic church since this has been defined and is a dogma of the Church. If the Perpetual Virginity of Mary is false then the dogma of infallibility is wrong. Then if the dogma of infallibility is wrong then the Church becomes just like any other church. Then why stay Catholic?

P.S.
Don’t mean to argue. But I think that it is important to stress the trueness of this dogma since the Church puts her authority behind it. And when she does that, we know that it is true and their could be no buts,ifs or maybes.

 

[Daniel_Marsh]

Hi Milliardo, I would simply point out that he is using a word study fallacy known as the root fallacy. The bottom line is a word gains its meaning from its context. Simply go back to the text and show that either meaning is possible, reasonable in the given context. Then move onto a clearer text for the doctrine you are discussing.

see the book, Exegetical Fallacies by DA Carson