Jesus Christ - Bible Study

[jim1130]

To make it clear, when we go through the Scriptures together, just comment about the particular chapter that we are in. You can use additional Scriptures and your sacred tradition to support your comments and positions.

Sure, let’s do the gospel of Mark after John. Do you think the disciples ate the actual flesh of Jesus and drank his literal blood in the upper room while Jesus was still with them? I’m sorry if this offends, but I just watched a zombie movie with my son. Your comment reminded me of that flesh eating zombie movie. The 2nd feature should have been a vampire movie. Well, at least my comments are in-line with Halloween (Reformation day).

When you attended Mass with Catholic friends and took the Eucharist did you see yourself as a zombie? Did you see taking the Eucharist as some type of joke?

Did you? “Yes” or “no” will suffice.

 

[Mickey]

All I ask is that we go through the chapters in an orderly and systematic way. Let the Scriptures dictate our conversations. I’m not the standard of truth on this thread. Let’s just reason together in the Scriptures and see what we discover together.

You do not understand. Catholics and Orthodox study the Scriptures by the guidance of the holy Church (Jesus Christ being the Head of the visible Church) and the interpretation of the Church Fathers.

That is our 2000 year old Sacred Tradition.

Sacred TRADITION is the very CHURCH; without the Sacred TRADITION the CHURCH does not exist. Those who deny the Sacred TRADITION deny the Church and the preaching of the Apostles.
Before the writing of the Holy Scriptures, that is, of the sacred texts of the Gospels, the Acts and the Epistles of the Apostles, and before they were spread to the churches of the world, the CHURCH was based on Sacred Tradition…The holy texts are in relation to Sacred Tradition what the part is to the whole. The CHURCH Fathers regard Sacred Tradition as the safe guide in the interpretation of Holy Scripture and absolutely necessary for understanding the truths contained in the Holy Scripture. The CHURCH received many traditions from the Apostles… The constitution of the church services, especially of the Divine Liturgy, the holy Mysteria themselves and the manner of performing them, certain prayers and other institutions of the Church go back to the Sacred Tradition of the Apostles. In their conferences, the Holy Synods draw not only from Holy Scriptures, but also from Sacred Tradition as from a pure fount. Thus, the Seventh Ecumenical Synod says in the 8th Decree: “If one violates any part of the CHURCH Tradition, either written or unwritten, let him be anathema.
**Modern Orthodox Saints, St. Nectarios of Aegina”, Dr. Constantine Cavarnos, Institute for Byzantine and Modern Greek Studies, Belmont, Massachusetts., 1981., pp. 154-187 **

 

[Mickey]

I just watched a zombie movie with my son. Your comment reminded me of that flesh eating zombie movie. The 2nd feature should have been a vampire movie. Well, at least my comments are in-line with Halloween

Wow!!! I missed this one!!!

How utterly offensive!!!

This is in line with Jack Chick comics. :crying:

 

[Reformed]

Wow!!! I missed this one!!!

How utterly offensive!!!

This is in line with Jack Chick comics. :crying:

Please read posts 10 to 18 in context. Please focus on posts 16 too. Let’s try to stay within Scriptures and our Bible Study in the gospel of John chapter 1. Remember, it was Monkey who side tracked our study on the Eucharist, not me. If you guys continue to try to go off the chapter subject, I have to assume you are trying to derail our study because Scripture has too much light for you to handle.

 

[Reformed]

Originally Posted by jim1130
When you attended Mass with Catholic friends and took the Eucharist did you see yourself as a zombie? Did you see taking the Eucharist as some type of joke?

Did you? “Yes” or “no” will suffice.

I think when I partook in the Eucharist with my Catholic friends, we did it out of our obdience to God. I went to a Protestant college, and my roomate for two years was a Roman Catholic Christian. The subject never came up between us regarding the elements becoming the literal flesh and blood of Jesus Christ. I think many Roman Catholics are unaware of the official Roman Catholic position on the Eucharist too.

 

[jim1130]

All I ask is that we go through the chapters in an orderly and systematic way. Let the Scriptures dictate our conversations. I’m not the standard of truth on this thread. Let’s just reason together in the Scriptures and see what we discover together.

This is why we have a multitude of different non-Catholic churches out there because many people decide to become their own Pope and Magesterium and promote their own interpretation, including you.

To be frank, I am just very skeptical of your motives and agenda for being here, particuarly in light of what you said of the Eucharist and your opinion of Mary (although not necessarily negative, it is in line with current Protestant thinking that Mary was basically an “incubator”, although you did not use that word).

Sorry, Reformed, but I am skeptical that you are here to learn about Catholicism. I feel that you are here to promote your own views and attack the weak Catholic, who is trying the best to defend the Church, with theological gymnastics. I just feel anything that a Catholic says in your “Bible Study,” particularly as it relates to John 6, will be used against the person later. I just find your intentions suspect.

You do not understand. Catholics and Orthodox study the Scriptures by the guidance of the holy Church (Jesus Christ being the Head of the visible Church) and the interpretation of the Church Fathers.

That is our 2000 year old Sacred Tradition.

Sacred TRADITION is the very CHURCH; without the Sacred TRADITION the CHURCH does not exist. Those who deny the Sacred TRADITION deny the Church and the preaching of the Apostles.
Before the writing of the Holy Scriptures, that is, of the sacred texts of the Gospels, the Acts and the Epistles of the Apostles, and before they were spread to the churches of the world, the CHURCH was based on Sacred Tradition…The holy texts are in relation to Sacred Tradition what the part is to the whole. The CHURCH Fathers regard Sacred Tradition as the safe guide in the interpretation of Holy Scripture and absolutely necessary for understanding the truths contained in the Holy Scripture. The CHURCH received many traditions from the Apostles… The constitution of the church services, especially of the Divine Liturgy, the holy Mysteria themselves and the manner of performing them, certain prayers and other institutions of the Church go back to the Sacred Tradition of the Apostles. In their conferences, the Holy Synods draw not only from Holy Scriptures, but also from Sacred Tradition as from a pure fount. Thus, the Seventh Ecumenical Synod says in the 8th Decree: “If one violates any part of the CHURCH Tradition, either written or unwritten, let him be anathema.
**Modern Orthodox Saints, St. Nectarios of Aegina”, Dr. Constantine Cavarnos, Institute for Byzantine and Modern Greek Studies, Belmont, Massachusetts., 1981., pp. 154-187 **

Thank you. The whole is taken rather than plug verses into one’s own interpretation much like an operator used to connect telephone lines by switchboard.

 

[jim1130]

Please read posts 10 to 18 in context. Please focus on posts 16 too. Let’s try to stay within Scriptures and our Bible Study in the gospel of John chapter 1. Remember, it was Monkey who side tracked our study on the Eucharist, not me. If you guys continue to try to go off the chapter subject, I have to assume you are trying to derail our study because Scripture has too much light for you to handle.

Not really. What it shows is an agenda on your part. It shows a lack of respect for Catholic teaching You are not really here to discuss, but to entrap. Why would anyone want to be part of THAT? I don’t.

 

[mercygate]

Does the Scriptures tell us to celebrate his birth or to acknowledge His death, burial and ressurection instead?

That’s a story that needs its own thread. The institution of a universal feast in honor of the Nativity of Our Lord occurred around 400 A.D. – after two bruising centuries fighting heresies that denied the true humanity or true divinity of Christ.

We celebrate Jesus’ death and resurrection every time we celebrate Mass.

Now, back to the Gospel of John. As for Jewish feasts, later on in this Gospel, check out Jesus says at the Feast of the Dedication.

 

[mercygate]

No, my underlining theme is to let God the Holy Spirit teach us as Christians as we go through the Scriptures together. Don’t you agree that “The Word became flesh” is about the incarnation and not the Eucharist?

We tend to view the Flesh of Crist as unified. Yes, “the Word became flesh and dwelt among us” refers to the Incarnation. The Word also becomes flesh upon all of the altars of the world and dwells among us.

 

[Reformed]

Not really. What it shows is an agenda on your part. It shows a lack of respect for Catholic teaching You are not really here to discuss, but to entrap. Why would anyone want to be part of THAT? I don’t.

To be honest with you and with the motive to speak the truth in love, many Roman Catholic Christians rather run from the light of Scriptures than deal with the truth of the Scriptures. I think many Roman Catholics are afraid of the Bible. I posted some images on the “funny image thread” but there is some truth to these images from my perspective. Please see posts 24, 25, and 26 on this thread below.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=277394&page=2

 

[mercygate]

The Church Fathers are part of Sacred Tradition and are in line with Sacred Scripture–in conjunction with the Apostolic Church, they interpret Sacred Scripture for us.

I am sorry if you do not agree with this.

Gregory of Nyssa is an early Doctor of the Church. While it may be said that not everything a Doctor of the Church has written can withstand doctrinal scrutiny, the writings of Gregory of Nyssa certainly can. Not one syllable of his surviving writings in any way contradicts the faith of the Church.

Moreover, he died just around the time the canon of Scripture was defined. One of the criteria for the canonization of Scripture was that the book in question not contradict the teaching of the Church. So Gregory of Nyssa, venerated in his own day as a light of wisdom, would have been one of the teachers whose work was used to measure the authenticity of Scripture.

 

[Reformed]

We tend to view the Flesh of Crist as unified. Yes, “the Word became flesh and dwelt among us” refers to the Incarnation. The Word also becomes flesh upon all of the altars of the world and dwells among us.

On all altars or only Catholic and Orthodox altars? Do you see the problem of calling it the altar in light of the book of Hebrews? We all understand that most Protestant churches do not have an image of the crurcifix, but rather we have an empty cross. Christ is risen my brothers and sisters, interceding for us at the right hand of God.

 

[jim1130]

To be honest with you and with the motive to speak to the truth in love, many Roman Catholic Christians rather run from the light of Scriptures than deal with the truth of the Scriptures. I think many Roman Catholics are afraid of the Bible. I posted this one image on the “funny image thread” but there is some truth to it from my perspective.

I would disagree. Based on my own personal experience with non-Catholic Bible studies, this is the script:

Catholic: This is what I understand this passage to say.

Non-Catholic: You are wrong. Let me show you in scripture why you are wrong.

Catholic: That is not what it says.

Non-Catholic: You are wrong.

So, now we have an impasse so who is right?

Catholic: Let me show you what the Early Church Fathers wrote to help you understand since they were closer to the Apostles.

Non-Catholic: The Early Church Fathers are not Biblical therefore their opinion is not relevant.

Catholic: Oh, well…

How are YOU different?

 

[Reformed]

I would disagree. Based on my own personal experience with non-Catholic Bible studies, this is the script:

Catholic: This is what I understand this passage to say.

Non-Catholic: You are wrong. Let me show you in scripture why you are wrong.

Catholic: That is not what it says.

Non-Catholic: You are wrong.

So, now we have an impasse so who is right?

Catholic: Let me show you what the Early Church Fathers wrote to help you understand since they were closer to the Apostles.

Non-Catholic: The Early Church Fathers are not Biblical therefore their opinion is not relevant.

Catholic: Oh, well…

How are YOU different?

Your whole arguement is the basis of the Protestant Reformation. This is a Bible Study together with Christians. I agreed that you can quote your sources of Sacred Tradition. But to a biblical Christian, Sacred Tradition is not treated in the same light as Holy Scriptures. I find it very intersting that you are 48 years old and I am 47 years old. How do you determine absolute truth?

 

[jim1130]

Your whole arguement is the basis of the Protestant Reformation. This is a Bible Study together with Christians. I agreed that you can quote your sources of Sacred Tradition. But to a biblical Christian, Sacred Tradition is not treated in the same light as Holy Scriptures.

We use the same Bible, but come up with different meanings. How is that possible? We refer to the Early Church Fathers, some of whom were taught by the Apostles themselves, as evidence of our understanding, but the they are dismissed since they are not Biblical. Sounds like “house rules” to me.

 

[jim1130]

How do you determine absolute truth?

I know my limitations.

 

[Reformed]

We use the same Bible, but come up with different meanings. How is that possible? We refer to the Early Church Fathers, some of whom were taught by the Apostles themselves, as evidence of our understanding, but the they are dismissed since they are not Biblical. Sounds like “house rules” to me.

Not all early Church Fathers believed in the exact same things. Do you consider all of the Church Fathers work to be equal to divine revelation of Holy Scriptures? Or, do you believe the Holy Scirptures to be superior revelation from God than the writings of the Church Fathers? How do you personally know when something is considered Sacred Tradtion or just plain tradition. Before you answer, please read the Sacred Oral and Written Tradition thread. Here is a link for you on Sacred Tradition.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=276435

BTW… the house rules are stacked in your favor.

 

[jim1130]

Not all early Church Fathers believed in the exact same things. Do you consider all of the Church Fathers work to be equal to divine revelation of Holy Scriptures? Or, do you believe the Holy Scirptures to be superior revelation from God than the writings of the Church Fathers? How do you personally know when something is considered Sacred Tradtion or just plain tradition. Before you answer, please read the Sacred Oral and Written Tradition thread. Here is a link for you on Sacred Tradition.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=276435

BTW… the house rules are stacked in your favor.

If not for the church Fathers we would not have a Bible.

 

[jim1130]

Before you answer, please read the Sacred Oral and Written Tradition thread. Here is a link for you on Sacred Tradition.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=276435

I followed that along for awhile. Your point?

 

[Pax]

On all altars or only Catholic and Orthodox altars? Do you see the problem of calling it the altar in light of the book of Hebrews? We all understand that most Protestant churches do not have an image of the crurcifix, but rather we have an empty cross. Christ is risen my brothers and sisters, interceding for us at the right hand of God.

This is an empty lecture on your part…no pun intended. Catholics are quite aware that Christ is risen and we celebrate that fact in numerous ways. As far as the crucifix is concerned, you might want to prayerfully look at the following verses from Paul:

1 Cor 1:23-24
“…but we preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and folly to Gentiles, but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God.”

1 Cor 2:2
“For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ and him crucified.”

Galatians 3:1
“O FOOLISH Galatians! Who has bewitched you, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified?”

I would humbly suggest that you give greater thought to your remarks about Catholic teaching and views before posting them. No matter what you throw at us, scripture is decidedly in our favor.