Jesus Christ Superstar?

[The_Professor]

Agreed either way. Awesome interpretations.

On a side note, I think a lot of the film reflects the Gospel of Mark in its simplicity (although it is probably overly simplified in some parts). Someone in a much earlier post wished the Virgin Mother were featured, but as she only appears in the Passion narrative of John, I think they have easy license not to feature her here.

 

[patrick457]

Agreed either way. Awesome interpretations.

On a side note, I think a lot of the film reflects the Gospel of Mark in its simplicity (although it is probably overly simplified in some parts). Someone in a much earlier post wished the Virgin Mother were featured, but as she only appears in the Passion narrative of John, I think they have easy license not to feature her here.

An article I linked to earlier actually discusses the similarities in themes between Mark and the 1973 JCS.

 

[The_Professor]

You know I think I saw that, and it inspired my message!

 

[Califman831]

Emphasis is mine:

If the USCCB didn’t have a problem with it, I don’t know why anyone else would.

That does not mean much these days, look at how often they turn a blind eye to liturgical abuses within the church.

 

[crazzeto]

That does not mean much these days, look at how often they turn a blind eye to liturgical abuses within the church.

…?

 

[pnewton]

…?

It is called an agenda. Some try to slip junk like that in regardless of the topic, as if the topic wasn’t controversial enough. The point made originally remains. The Church has not condemned this musical. If you don’s like it, do not listen. If you listen, know it is not accurate.

 

[Mickey]

Is this movie/musical blasphemous?

Yes.

 

[Whitacre_Girl]

It really hits home for me, too, when he sings, “Watch me die.” It speaks to the ramifications of his death which will speak to people for centuries to come. Thanks for the links, too.

This Rock Opera will always have a special place in my heart. There are some inaccuracies, sure, but I came from a background where Jesus wasn’t ever really spoken of. However, my Dad loved this film. (1975ish version) When I first started to turn to Christ, this movie was a good stepping-off place for me. It led me to go deeper, and gave me a base knowledge. Now, years later (and theology school under my belt) I still return to it and glean fresh insights. The part that gets to me is also the Gethsemane scene. For me, it reminds me that although he was God, he was also fully man with worries and concerns of his own. When he is asking if his death will ever mean anything, I always start crying and my heart screams out “Yes, Lord. It matter to me, and I will MAKE it mean something at least to ME.”

 

[Califman831]

It is called an agenda. Some try to slip junk like that in regardless of the topic, as if the topic wasn’t controversial enough. The point made originally remains. The Church has not condemned this musical. If you don’s like it, do not listen. If you listen, know it is not accurate.

Its not junk and there is nothing wrong with an agenda to weed out the junk some modern clergy try to pull over the faithful. Crazetto implied that if this movie was blasphemous than the bishops would have condemned it. I as well as many other posters have pointed out that the bishops have a very slow track record of defending the church.

This film is what happens when u mix Christianity with the hippie culture. It is best to avoid such garbage. If readers on this forums are really into freak shows then surf on over to youtube for some free clips, after that run don’t walk to the nearest confessional.

youtube.com/watch?v=5g77AcTbjFo&feature=related
youtube.com/watch?v=IvVr2uks0C8

 

[crazzeto]

Its not junk and there is nothing wrong with an agenda to weed out the junk some modern clergy try to pull over the faithful. Crazetto implied that if this movie was blasphemous than the bishops would have condemned it. I as well as many other posters have pointed out that the bishops have a very slow track record of defending the church.

This film is what happens when u mix Christianity with the hippie culture. It is best to avoid such garbage. If readers on this forums are really into freak shows then surf on over to youtube for some free clips, after that run don’t walk to the nearest confessional.

youtube.com/watch?v=5g77AcTbjFo&feature=related
youtube.com/watch?v=IvVr2uks0C8

Actually I never implied any such thing, though honestly if that was the case they would (see, I’ll do it now for you). Yes yes, post the bad masses… We all know about it, do you really think brother Bishops just turn a blind eye to such things? Do you think they don’t notice? Or did you not consider it isn’t the place of a brother Bishop to intervein in such a thing. There is order in the church after all.

 

[pnewton]

This film is what happens when u mix Christianity with the hippie culture

That is your opinion, but not that of the Catholic Church. Taking pot shots at clergy for unrelated issues is scarcely a way to establish any moral credibility for the value of your opinion.

 

[Whitacre_Girl]

That is your opinion, but not that of the Catholic Church. Taking pot shots at clergy for unrelated issues is scarcely a way to establish any moral credibility for the value of your opinion.

Come on, think about it. Jesus was a hippe, he had long hair and no job, what more do you want? To add to the case he went around talking about love and pacifism.

Seriously though, I’m totally joking. (if this offends you, chalk it up to lack of sleep and poor humor on my part! LOL)

 

[patrick457]

It is called an agenda. Some try to slip junk like that in regardless of the topic, as if the topic wasn’t controversial enough. The point made originally remains. The Church has not condemned this musical. If you don’s like it, do not listen. If you listen, know it is not accurate.

I have a little trivia: Ted Neeley and Carl Anderson (Jesus and Judas in the 1973 film, respectively) were originally slated to perform in the Vatican, were it not for Carl’s death. There was this little bit on the DVD commentary:

Norman Jewison (Director): I was more concerned, I think, that - on the release of the film - that everyone would turn on it, and, of course, when the Vatican sent the Roman L’Osservatore Romano, the newspaper in Rome which is the spokesman for the Vatican, they sent a journalist from Rome with the Monsignor, and they came and I showed them the film at Pinewood Studios in England. And I kind of held my breath, because I didn’t know how they were going to react to it. And, of course, we didn’t have Italian subtitles on it, but they were aware of the project and, when they came out, they were just totally overwhelmed.
Ted Neeley (Jesus): They were. And I remember specifically…
Norman: One of them said: “Not since Leonardo da Vinci!” and they were just overwhelmed with the effect that it had on them. And I think they took that back to the Vatican and then, of course, I was contacted and I sent a print to the Vatican so that it could be screened for the Pope. So we did, as I remember, I think we pretty well had the support of the Vatican.
Ted: Oh absolutely. And, I remember specifically, because one thing that was said so amazingly was about my involvement - the quote was: “That boy that plays Jesus should be canonized!”
Norman: So sweet, isn’t it?

Quick! Somebody convert Neeley, now.

 

[Joe_5859]

Come on, think about it. Jesus was a hippe, he had long hair and no job, what more do you want? To add to the case he went around talking about love and pacifism.

Seriously though, I’m totally joking. (if this offends you, chalk it up to lack of sleep and poor humor on my part! LOL)

Also, I’m sure his miracles evoked many responses of “Groovy, man!” from those who witnessed them.

 

[Whitacre_Girl]

Also, I’m sure his miracles evoked many responses of “Groovy, man!” from those who witnessed them.

EXACTLY!!!

And of course those just learning about Christ who see his miracles and the joy he puts in people and say:

“Hey! I’ll have whatever HE’S having!!!”

 

[Califman831]

Come on, think about it. Jesus was a hippie, he had long hair and no job, what more do you want? To add to the case he went around talking about love and pacifism.

Seriously though, I’m totally joking. (if this offends you, chalk it up to lack of sleep and poor humor on my part! LOL)

Many groups have spoken of love and peace with a lot more decorum not just the vile hippies who often preached promiscuity and other sins. For the record Jesus would most likely would have been a carpenter, given that was the occupation of his adoptive father Joseph. In the passion of the Christ, one of the scenes covering his early life with Mary, the film depicts him as fabricating a table. I do wonder how many people who enjoyed JCS also enjoy clown masses and other changes made with the mass. Maybe they would like the priests to give up their vestments and take up wearing superman shirts and clown shoes as Jesus is depicted in another heretical film.

 

[patrick457]

Many groups have spoken of love and peace with a lot more decorum not just the vile hippies who often preached promiscuity and other sins. For the record Jesus would most likely would have been a carpenter, given that was the occupation of his adoptive father Joseph. In the passion of the Christ, one of the scenes covering his early life with Mary, the film depicts him as fabricating a table. I do wonder how many people who enjoyed JCS also enjoy clown masses and other changes made with the mass. Maybe they would like the priests to give up their vestments and take up wearing superman shirts and clown shoes as Jesus is depicted in another heretical film.

He and Joseph are called tekton in the Greek, actually, which has a wider meaning than the traditional rendering ‘carpenter’. It just meant ‘someone who works with his hands’, i.e. a laborer or a craftsman. If you wanted to say someone was a woodworker or a stonemason, you would have to be more specific: something like ‘a tekton who works in wood/stone’.

They were not just woodworkers like how many carpenters are today, but were probably also something like stonemasons or construction workers. In a place where stones were more numerous than high-quality wood - which were mostly imported and are thus unlikely to surface in a tiny, virtually unknown village such as Nazareth (the wood they got at their backyard is enough to make yokes, plows and simple furniture, but that’s about it) - these would have been decent ways to make a living. Some even think it likely that Jesus also worked as a boat builder and repairer at one point, citing His close relationship with the fishermen in the Capernaum area.

BTW, that was one scene in TPoTC where Gibson engages in a little historical inaccuracy, perhaps on purpose: back in those days people did not sit on chairs and dine on tall tables as the one you see Jesus working on, instead they either reclined on couches or sat on the floor and dined on low-legged tables.

For the record, I do like JCS and Godspell, but I hate clown Masses. Seriously, I think it unwise to somehow link the two together - that you somehow are automatically in favor of liturgical abuse if you like these musicals. While the JCS and Godspell films (both released in 1973) do have some rather hippie-esque elements in them, those are products of their times. I’ve seen recent productions of both which have a more contemporary air on them (the 2000 JCS film is one example).

Oh, and for the record, about Godspell:

Speaking of “Clowns,” there are often misconceptions about the concept of the clown analogy in Godspell. For instance, sometimes it is misunderstood as the cast being “hippies” or “flower children.” The concept was derived by John-Michael Tebelak from a book by Harvey Cox, head of the Harvard Divinity School, entitled Feast of Fools, most particularly the chapter called “Christ the Harlequin.” I recommend it to those with questions about this concept. If it is difficult to find, copies may be ordered from the Harvard Divinity School in Cambridge, Massachusetts.

 

[patrick457]

Somehow, I think that our discussion of JCS would be incomplete if we don’t include its predecessor, Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat.

*Way way back many centuries ago,
Not long after the Bible began
Jacob lived in the land of Canaan,
A fine example of a family man
Jacob, Jacob and sons,
Depended on farming to earn their keep
Jacob, Jacob and sons,
Spent all of his days in the fields with sheep

…

Reuben was the eldest of the children of Israel
With Simeon and Levi the next in line
Naphtali and Issachar with Asher and Dan
Zebulun and Gad took the total to nine
Jacob, Jacob and sons,
Benjamin and Judah, which leaves only one
Jacob, Jacob and sons,
Joseph - Jacob’s favourite son*



Oh, and JCS’ and Godspell’s forgotten, more devout brother: Johnny Cash’s Gospel Road (these three were all released the same year!), which probably has the blondest Jesus ever to grace the screen.

*Matthew, Mark, and Luke and John
Told about Jesus on that Gospel highway
Matthew, Mark, and Luke and John
Told about Jesus on that Gospel road
How His pillow was a stone
Where He laid His head
How the hungry five thousand on the hill were fed
How the people came and listened to Him - everything He said
Walking down that Gospel Road *

 

[Califman831]

Very interesting post patrick, thanks for sharing.

 

[pnewton]

I do wonder how many people who enjoyed JCS also enjoy clown masses and other changes made with the mass. Maybe they would like the priests to give up their vestments and take up wearing superman shirts and clown shoes as Jesus is depicted in another heretical film.

Well, let’s ask. Not I. Let us see if anyone answers in the affirmative or if you are engaging in the fallacy of guilt by association, stereotyping and prejuidice.

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