Jesus coming back too late?

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Most would consider Pope Benedict a “conservative”, yet he was also very interested in the environmental “question”. This isn’t something new that Pope Francis introduced. Yes, Pope Francis has bound the faithful to a greater degree (Laudato Si is a magisterial document and cannot be ignored by Catholics in good standing), but Pope Benedict spoke on the subject as well… he even bought a forest in Eastern Europe to offset the Vatican’s carbon footprint.
 
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Anybody who is afraid because people are leaving the Church and Jesus might come back before they convert should be praying, fasting, and making reparations.

Also making sure our own “house” is in order.
 
There are plenty of people and groups in the world who talk about the environment and various other such issues–there’s no real reason to be Catholic if those are your interests. On the other hand, the Catholic Church is the only organization that can provide the means to save one’s soul and the souls of others. That is what we should be confidently and clearly proclaiming. That should be our clear focus. Our liturgy should clearly reflect this (as it traditionally has, but often does not these days). If more people were doing what needed to be done to save their souls and others’, the fruits they would bring forth would make a much more significant impact on those other issues. As Jesus said, “Seek ye first the kingdom of God” (cf. Matt. 6:33) and the rest will follow from that.

With regard to the OP, Jesus sent the Holy Spirit, who provides every person with the means of believing and obeying the saving truth (cf. First Vatican Council, Dei Filius 3, 6; Second Council of Orange, Canon 7). He is still here and working. The Church need only to bring that truth forth and preach it to the ends of the earth and not bury it under a ton of other less relevant stuff or subordinate its preaching to endless and fruitless dialogues with those who promote errors that do no save.

Recent Popes have liked to say that the Church grows by attraction–this is true, but what ultimately attracts those of good will to the Church is that thing which is uniquely hers: the remission of sins and salvation in Jesus–as He Himself says, “My sheep hear my voice: and I know them, and they follow me. And I give them life everlasting.” (John 10:27-28).
 
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Your reference to a re-uniting of the Church – that is, the notion of a particular utopianism – is typically part and parcel of the effects of the millennial reign.
 
Even when you apologize you are able to seem insulting. Congratulations.
 
It really isn’t historically a new thing that people fall away from attending mass when they are in their teens and 20s. People seem to point to this as some new trend but it isn’t. Many people fall away in their youth when they feel immortal and then come back later in life especially when they have children etc.
 
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Denying modern science is not praiseworthy. I didn’t insult you. I just expressed my incredulity that there are non-American Catholics buying into conservative American propaganda. The Catholics I know in real life don’t express these kinds of views. Evangelicals I could see, as their faith is so heavily influenced by the US. A Baptist friend once told me that he rejected recycling because Christ will soon return and destroy the world…so pollute away. Definitely not a Catholic position.
It’s like young earth creationism… I don’t meet real life Catholics who reject modern biology, geology, cosmology, etc… didn’t realize it was even a thing among Catholics, as opposed to Evangelicals, until CAF…
 
phaster said:
point I was string to make is there are several issue like the environment (i.e. climate change) and gay rights that the traditional catholic church does not seem all that interested in,… and like it or not many youth are interested in these topics
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these are the things mainstream media is interested in. The media moves from issue to issue to generate interest and appeal to people’s sympathies. Take a look at the issues in the 60s. Has anything really changed?

Contrary to the popular belief that pre-Vatican II church was more stable, people have been leaving the church and religion in general in greater numbers since 1900. For centuries church membership was cultural and communal. Once culture changed and community support shifted to the secular people who had no real foundation in belief or the teachings of traditional churches left for something else.
 
As to the Parousia being delayed, we have no idea of the good that God is accomplishing as time passes. The Church in Africa and Asia is growing like wildfire.

Would we interrupt God’s plan for the sake of our personal preferences?
 
You made your claims about me based on a long list of assumptions, and then called me a creature when you found out your assumptions were wrong. I’m not American, I don’t watch or consume any ‘conservative American propaganda’. I listed gay rights with climate change because I responded to someone else who did first. I never claimed to deny climate change. I merely expressed my disinterest. I am not a creationist nor do I reject recycling, both of which you just happen to compare to me.

These were your assumptions that you made about me. They are wrong. How about I tell you my assumptions of you? Then you tell me if I’m off the mark.

You delight in being a polemicist and insulting to Americans. You feel better about yourself because you think you are better than others, especially those Americans. You likely will not feel any remorse about coming across as insulting to someone. You lack charity but also lack the self-awareness to recognize it. You likely feel a strong sense of justification in your contempt of others.

Am I far off? If so, I deeply apologize.
 
You can review my 15 years of posting history here on CAF and reach your own conclusions.

As a former evangelical who was raised with very conservative views, including creationism and little patience for “environmentalists”, it is a sore spot (and dare I say trigger) for me when I encounter views like this in Catholicism as I strongly feel they are a great hindrance to the new evangelization. I do apologize if I assumed too much in your case.

The issue is a certain brand of American conservatism that gets rolled into the Catholicism of some here at CAF… not Americans or American views in general.
 
John121 said:
People have left the Catholic Church in huge numbers don’t attend mass and are not practicing my question is why did jesus not come back before this and save more people from the tribulation ?
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There are several misunderstandings in your question.

1st. Jesus already came to save, the first time. That’s why He was born and that’s why He died.

2nd. Those who believe, receive Jesus in the Holy Eucharist, every time they receive Communion. Therefore, for us, He returns every time we attend the Mass.

3rd. When Jesus comes again, He isn’t coming to save anyone. He is coming to receive believers into heaven and to condemn sinners into hell. That’s why it’s called the Judgement.

4th. If someone doesn’t come to believe before His Second Coming, it will be too late.
In Ireland I might be lucky to see one or two my age at church, in there twenties.
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Church attendance doesn’t guarantee salvation.
 
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Can’t we just assume that God knows what he’s doing and had the whole timing thing figured out better than we could?
 
The Gospel is suppose to be preached in the entire world. Europe has gone dry but major parts of the world like PRC and much of the Muslim world is still under a thick curtain.

It might take several more centuries or millennia.

A global consciousness is good for staying optimistic because what is happening in your home town or even in an entire country isn’t happening everywhere else. There are already more weekly worshippers in China than in Europe.
 
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Where does it say that there will be a mass conversion of Jews before the Second Coming? Seems rather unlikely to me - may happen after the Christ Returns. Why would it happen before?
 
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Archbishop Vigano quoted CCC 675 on this topic at end of this Wapo interview

CCC 675: Before Christ’s second coming the Church must pass through a final trial that will shake the faith of many believers. The persecution that accompanies her pilgrimage on earth will unveil the “mystery of iniquity” in the form of a religious deception offering men an apparent solution to their problems at the price of apostasy from the truth.
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AlmaRedemptorisMater said:
Some may be. I think it’s somewhat overrepresented as they seem to be the most vocal. It’s a bit of a trope now, the millennial who advocates climate change, gay and trans rights, basic income, etc as the face of my generation. It’s become tiresome being lumped into that same group because of age.

Interestingly, since speaking anecdotally seems to be alright here, our parishes in my area are experiencing a great growth of millennials both single and married that just so happens to coincide with a change in church leadership locally towards conservative perspectives on moral and economic issues.
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FWIW there is a hipster catholic church here in SD that does latin mass,…


the ceremony is beautiful, w/ chants and all,… BUT sadly I’ve got zero understanding of the latin language, so I didn’t feel like I was learning anything at the mass

also wasn’t a big fan of the unpadded church pews when kneeling,… figure I suffer enough on a daily basis when I have to listen to the news about what politicians are doing about this and that
 
twf said:
Most would consider Pope Benedict a “conservative”, yet he was also very interested in the environmental “question”. This isn’t something new that Pope Francis introduced. Yes, Pope Francis has bound the faithful to a greater degree (Laudato Si is a magisterial document and cannot be ignored by Catholics in good standing), but Pope Benedict spoke on the subject as well… he even bought a forest in Eastern Europe to offset the Vatican’s carbon footprint.
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FWIW,… I’ve got a deep interest in the science of climate change

WRT the impact of Laudato Si,… went to the CA “faith and science” conference in 2018,… and while there didn’t hear anything on the topic during the various presentations over the three days or any questions by any of the other individuals who attended

ALSO according to an article I’ve read,…

“The encyclical also seems to have been quickly forgotten. In Rome, I asked a young, devout theology student from the Philippines whether it had made an impact on the church’s teachings or the attitudes of its followers. Not a bit, he said.”
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What do you think of climate change? Social Justice
yup, the methane mystery is indeed more food for though,… and yet another domino piece whose costs need to be accounted for and ultimate knock on effect damage potential be assessed (IOW methane burp = existential threat?) [Domino Chain Reaction (geometric growth in action)] A warming Arctic could cost the world trillions of dollars A warming Arctic is shifting from white to dark as sea ice melts and land-covered snow retreats, and that means it can absorb even more of the sun’s…
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vsedriver said:
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phaster:
point I was string to make is there are several issue like the environment (i.e. climate change) and gay rights that the traditional catholic church does not seem all that interested in,… and like it or not many youth are interested in these topics
Click to expand...
these are the things mainstream media is interested in. The media moves from issue to issue to generate interest and appeal to people’s sympathies. Take a look at the issues in the 60s. Has anything really changed?

Contrary to the popular belief that pre-Vatican II church was more stable, people have been leaving the church and religion in general in greater numbers since 1900. For centuries church membership was cultural and communal. Once culture changed and community support shifted to the secular people who had no real foundation in belief or the teachings of traditional churches left for something else.
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FWIW long story short,… I’ve got a deep interest in the science of climate change
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What do you think of climate change? Social Justice
went to the catholic answers 2018 science and faith conference here in san diego to find out more about how the other catholics view the issue of climate change and laudato si given the theme of conference “science and faith” was surprised no one publicly asked any of the speakers any questions about “climate climate” but did ask Dr. Stacy Trasancos (on the side) who was one of the headline speakers (w/ a science background) about her opinion,… basically she mentioned that climate science was n…
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and basically could care less about “gay rights” (was just a pop culture issue, I mentioned as an example)
 
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