Jesus did not die on Cross

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John 19 31-35
Now since it was preparation day, in order that the bodies might not remain on the cross on the sabbath, for the sabbath day of that week was a solemn one, the Jews asked Pilate that their legs be broken and they be taken down.

So the soldiers came and broke the legs of the first and then of the other one who was crucified with Jesus.

But when they came to Jesus and saw that he was already dead, they did not break his legs,but one soldier thrust his lance into his side, and immediately blood and water flowed out.

An eyewitness has testified, and his testimony is true; he knows that he is speaking the truth, so that you also may believe.​

Thanks for posting this quote, MHalsey.

I trust the word of an eyewitness, the apostle John, who was there.
 
paarsurrey said:
Hi
I think the appropriate title of the thread should have been> Jesus was not killed on Cross by the Jews<.
The Jews Clergy were not after Jesus that he had proclaimed deity for himself, for that there is no punishment in this world in the OTBible, to my knowledge, please correct me if I am wrong. Please read the following passage:
“If a prophet, or one who foretells by dreams, appears among you and announces to you a miraculous sign or wonder, and if the sign or wonder of which he has spoken takes place, and he says, ‘Let us follow other gods’ (gods you have not known) ‘and let us worship them,’ you must not listen to the words of that prophet or dreamer. The Lord your God is testing you to find out whether you love him with all your heart and with all your soul. It is the Lord your God you must follow, and him you must revere. Keep his commands and obey him; serve him and hold fast to him. That prophet or dreamer must be put to death, because he preached rebellion against the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt and redeemed you from the land of slavery; he has tried to turn you from the way the Lord your God commanded you to follow. You must purge the evil from among you” (Deuteronomy 13:1-5 NIV).
The Jews wanted to prove Jesus a false Prophet and that is the reason they wanted to kill him on Cross, a death of humiliation as well.
Jesus’ response that we infer from his showing the adulterous Jews the **Sign of Jonah **was saying that he was a true Prophet Son of Man/Woman they won’t succeed in killing him on Cross. And that is what I believe.
Thanks
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You asked, so here goes:

Yes they were after Jesus. They charged him with Blasphemy.

How did you miss that?
 
dranzal said:
That is truly unfortunate.

No crucifixion means no resurrection. Further, this means that the apostles died for a faith based on delusion (since they claim to have witnessed the Ascension). It means that the Gospel writers were liars willing to defend their lies to the death. John’s lies are the most graphic as he is the only one to claim to have been at the cross when Jesus died. Please tell me what they would gain from those lies. It did not make them wealthy. It did not ensure long life.

If anyone here wishes to assert that the Bible is corrupt and maybe the Gospel writers did not write what they did indeed write, back it up. Provide proof that the early Christian church did not have a sacrificed saviour. Provide proof that they did not really witness an Ascension and write about it. Provide proof that the core belief of all Christian faiths is based on corrupted passages of the Bible.

Without the supreme sacrifice of love (God willingly dying for the redemption of His people) there is no salvation.

NO CROSS, NO CROWN. PERIOD.
:highprayer: :signofcross: :byzsoc: :crossrc:
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I just cant see the Apostles suffering torture and dying for a mere man. Jews just didnt do things like this back then. Remember the Apostles who retreated back in Jerusalem after the Crucificion and were afraid to be seen by anyone? These same Apostles were willing to die for this new faith afterwards. I wonder what changed their minds. Could it have been the Glorified Christ in their midsts?
 
Just a note to the several who have made comments with regard to Muslim beliefs in response to Paarsurrey’s statements. Paarsurrey is NOT a Muslim. As his signature often states, he is an Ahmadi. Despite the claims in the rest of signature, followers of Mahdi are about as Muslim as follwers of Joseph Smith are Christian.
 
Grace_Seeker said:
Just a note to the several who have made comments with regard to Muslim beliefs in response to Paarsurrey’s statements. Paarsurrey is NOT a Muslim. As his signature often states, he is an Ahmadi. Despite the claims in the rest of signature, followers of Mahdi are about as Muslim as follwers of Joseph Smith are Christian.
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Thank you for the heads up.

And this is not even relevent to his claims he has not addressed.

If you want to worry if he is a schismatic Muslim or not- does not address my question to him one iota.

Let him defend himself please. I asked him a question that goes beyond Islam.
 
Hellisreal said:
Thank you for the heads up.

And this is not even relevent to his claims he has not addressed.

If you want to worry if he is a schismatic Muslim or not- does not address my question to him one iota.

Let him defend himself please. I asked him a question that goes beyond Islam.
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My comments were directed to the whole thread and many posters that (it seemed to me) were being misled into believing they were speaking to a Muslim, when in fact they were not.

I couldn’t care less about your personal posts and was not addressing them in the slightest.
 
Grace_Seeker said:
My comments were directed to the whole thread and many posters that it seemed to me were being misled into believing they were speaking to a Muslim, when in fact they were not.

I couldn’t care less about your personal posts and was not addressing them in the slightest.
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Unless one cant READ, how has parasurry been anything less than honest?

No one here is mislead as far as I can tell.

But, thank you for casting judgement on parasurry.

Who has as much right to call himself Muslim as you do Christian.👍
 
paarsurrey said:
Hi
The PromisedMessiahImamMahdi responds the question:

On this point the Bible has more evidence which I proceed to state below. There is the statement of Jesus: ‘But after I am risen again, I will go before you into Galilee’ (Matthew: chapter 26, verse 32). This verse clearly shows that Jesus, after he had come out of the tomb, went to Galilee and not to heaven. Jesus’ words ‘After I am risen’ do not mean his rising up alive after he was dead; rather, as in the eyes of the Jews and the common people he had died on the Cross, he used words beforehand consistent with what they were to think of him in the future, and indeed, the man who was placed on the Cross, in whose hands and feet nails had been driven till he had fainted from pain, had become as good as dead; if such a man was saved from such a calamity and if he recovered his senses it would not be an exaggeration on his part to say that he had come to life again. There is no doubt that after so much suffering, Jesus’ escape from death was a miracle; it was no ordinary event. But to think that he had died is wrong. It is true that in the books of the New Testament words of this kind occur, but this is a mistake of the writers of those books, just as they had committed mistakes in recording several other historical events. Commentators who have made researches into these books admit that the books of the New Testament have two parts: (1) the spiritual instruction received by the disciples from Jesus (peace be on him) which is the essence of the teachings of the Gospel; (2) historical events – like the genealogy of Jesus; his arrest and his being beaten; the existence in his time of a miraculous pond, etc. These, the writers recorded by themselves; they were not revealed; rather, they were set down in accordance with the writer’s own ideas. In some places there are undue exaggerations, as where it is stated that if all the miracles and works of Jesus were recorded in books, the earth would not be able to accommodate these books. How exaggerated is this statement!
Apart from this, it is not against usages of speech to describe the great calamity which had befallen Jesus as death. When a man, having passed through a life and death experience, is ultimately saved from it, the common speech of all peoples expresses the idea by the idiomatic expression – ‘he was given a new life’, and no people to whatever country they may belong would demur at expressing that idea in this way.
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There are certain places we should not go, can I encourage my fellow CF posters, to be wise on who you converse with, this gentleman is quoteing a mans veiw of Jesus written 100 years ago as gosple and we unfortunatley encourage him, if he believes that Jesus never died that is his perogative, he is wrong, but, none the less entitled to his opinion.

this is what Jesus was refering to when he said " dont cast pearl before swine" sorry no insult intended, simply that the words of PMM and the Quoran are pig feed compared to the gospel of Jesus Christ.
Whose report will you believe?
We shall believe the report of the Lord
 
Hellisreal said:
Unless one cant READ, how has parasurry been anything less than honest?

No one here is mislead as far as I can tell.

But, thank you for casting judgement on parasurry.

Who has as much right to call himself Muslim as you do Christian.👍
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PaarSurrey’s signature says that he is Ahmadi AND of the faith of Islam. For Sunni and Shi’a Muslims such a statement is an oxymoron. Many here probably were not aware of this, especially as he speaks of Muhammad similarly to how Muslims might.

I did not mean to imply that PaarSurrey was intentionally trying to mislead people. But that it was obvious from some of the previous posts that people were not aware of the difference. There are significant differences, I don’t know them all. But ask PaarSurrey. I don’t believe him to be a liar, he will tell you those points of differences he has with Sunni and Shi’a Islam. I do know that one difference is the Ahmadi belief that Jesus not only didn’t die on the cross but that he continued to live out his life and die in India. Muslims believe that Allah subsituted another in Jesus’ place (some stories say Judas) and that Jesus himself was then lifted up to heaven having never died, and will come from heaven again to usher in the final judgment. Thus, questions about the ascencion, mentioned by earlier posters, are going to be dealt with completely differently by PaarSurrey than by a Muslim.
 
Grace_Seeker said:
**PaarSurrey’s signature says that he is Ahmadi **and of the faith of Islam. For Sunni and Shi’a Muslims such a statement is an oxymoron. Many here probably were not aware of this, especially as he speaks of Muhammad similarly to how Muslims might.

I did not mean to imply that PaarSurrey was intentionally trying to mislead people. But that it was obvious from some of the previous posts that people were not aware of the difference. There are significant differences. Ask PaarSurrey. I don’t believe him to be a liar, he will tell you those points of differences he has with Sunni and Shi’a Islam.
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I bolded the relevant portion of your post.

He makes it clear he is an Ahmadi.

What is it with you that you see this as confusing? :confused:
 
Note to paarsurrey:

Please lose that horrible purple text. It is distracting and annoying. Thanks.
 
Hellisreal said:
Thank you for the heads up.
And this is not even relevent to his claims he has not addressed.
If you want to worry if he is a schismatic Muslim or not- does not address my question to him one iota.
Let him defend himself please. I asked him a question that goes beyond Islam.
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Hi
I don’t remember your question, please. Kindly repeat your question under the thread:Question for Ahmadi Muslims
hcac
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=165454
I will try to answer, though I am not a scholar, I am a humble ordinary sinful person.
Thanks
 
Grace_Seeker said:
Just a note to the several who have made comments with regard to Muslim beliefs in response to Paarsurrey’s statements. Paarsurrey is NOT a Muslim. As his signature often states, he is an Ahmadi. Despite the claims in the rest of signature, followers of Mahdi are about as Muslim as follwers of Joseph Smith are Christian.
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Hi
Yes, I have always made it very clear that I am not a Traditional Violent Jihadi Type of Muslim; nor I want to be one such person, I am better without that. I am a peaceful Ahmadi Muslim, who believes in Mirza Ghulam Ahmad as PromisedMessiahImamMahdi appointed by Allah with a clear Word from GodAllahYHWH and as prophesized by Muhammad. He is a true successor ( peaceful Caliph) of Muhammad in this remote times, that people define as End of Time or Latter days. He has abolished all religious warfare for conversion to Islam as wrongly believed by many, as per clear prophecy of Muhammad in this regard. Please read my posts under the thread: Eradication of Violence in Muslims – A Peaceful Approach
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=164779
I think now it should be clear to every one that I am an Ahmadi Muslim and I have never hidden it here.
Thanks

The first and primary source on “Jesus did not die on Cross” and later died naturally is the pristine Word of God revealed on the PromisedMessiahImamMahdi 1835-1908.
 
Grace_Seeker said:
many posters that (it seemed to me) were being misled into believing they were speaking to a Muslim
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Hi
I again clarify that the posters were right to think that they were addressing a truthful Ahmadi Muslim.
Thanks

The first and primary source on “Jesus did not die on Cross” - rather **Jesus was not killed on Cross **and later died naturally is the pristine Word of God revealed on the PromisedMessiahImamMahdi 1835-1908.
 
Hellisreal said:
You asked, so here goes:

Yes they were after Jesus. They charged him with Blasphemy.

How did you miss that?
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For my friend parasurry, who is honest about who and what he believes-
I do not agree with his theology, but respect his HONESTY and reverence for Mary.

Carry on.👍
 
Hellisreal said:
Unless one cant READ, how has parasurry been anything less than honest?
No one here is mislead as far as I can tell.
But, thank you for casting judgement on parasurry.
Who has as much right to call himself Muslim as you do Christian.👍
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Hi
You are absolutely correct, I agree with you.
Thanks

The first and primary source on “Jesus did not die on Cross” - rather **Jesus was not killed on Cross **and later died naturally is the pristine Word of God revealed on the PromisedMessiahImamMahdi 1835-1908.
 
dolphinlove said:
I have to disagree with you on this Paarsurrey, he is not absolutely right…
He spelt your name wrong 😛
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I am a she, if you meant me.

So who is wrong?

Knit picking I see…

Fine with me.

Anything else while you are digging for splinters in others eye’s?
 
It has been pointed out to me I spelled your name wrong.

I did not do this intentionally.

I apologize.
paarsurrey said:
Hi
You are absolutely correct, I agree with you.
Thanks

The first and primary source on “Jesus did not die on Cross” - rather **Jesus was not killed on Cross **and later died naturally is the pristine Word of God revealed on the PromisedMessiahImamMahdi 1835-1908.
Click to expand...
 
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