Jesus Did Not Die

[JimG]

And Christians believe in one God, and call people to His worship.

The question is: Does Islam believe in Jesus as Messiah?
If not, does it anticipate a Messiah?
If Islam does not anticipate a Messiah, it is not in accord with the Law and the Prophets of the Old Covenant.

 

[Bobby_A.Greene]

lahokamal:

Those who maintain that Jesus (pbuh) was killed or is dead are making a serious mistake. One purpose in writing this book is to explain why this is so. In the following pages, we will examine the Qur’anic verses and the hadith of Prophet Muhammad (may God bless him and grant him peace) that reveal the truth of this issue, which has confused so many people over the centuries.

Read for yoursuelf;

harunyahya.com/books/faith/did_not_die/jesus_did_not_die_01.php

Sheer supposition six hundred years after the fact by an uneducated man.

 

[hawk]

The allegations made have been dealt with in the Bible through prophecy, we are already told how to deal with this:

Galatians 1:6-9
I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel-- which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!

Doesnt it strike us as strange that the writer talks about an “angel” from God?

How did Mohammed allegedly receive his revelations?

As also we are told to beware false prophets, for they are like ravening wolves amongst the sheep.

Taken with the old testament prophecy about the nature of ishmael and his spiritual descendants.

I think the God has warned us well in advance of the advent of islam

 

[Nan_S]

How embarrassing. A whole unit of Roman guards let a live victim down from the cross. Oops.

Now, the punishment for a Roman guards who boo-booed like this was to forfeit his own life. If was not a citizen himself, and many weren’t, he would be the next victim up on that cross. Consequently, the survival of a crucifixion victim was unheard of.

If Jesus did not die on the cross, as the Prophet Muhammad says, where was the outrage from the Roman commanders? Where was the public spectacle of crucifixion for this whole unit of irresponsible Roman guards?

Strange, that no one knows anything about this…

 

[Shenango]

Nan S:

How embarrassing. A whole unit of Roman guards let a live victim down from the cross. Oops.

Now, the punishment for a Roman guards who boo-booed like this was to forfeit his own life. If was not a citizen himself, and many weren’t, he would be the next victim up on that cross. Consequently, the survival of a crucifixion victim was unheard of.

If Jesus did not die on the cross, as the Prophet Muhammad says, where was the outrage from the Roman commanders? Where was the public spectacle of crucifixion for this whole unit of irresponsible Roman guards?

Strange, that no one knows anything about this…

Nan,

I’m afraid you don’t get it. The Qur’an says Jesus (PBUH) never even made it to the cross to be put on it in the first place, much less to be let down alive. No one is propounding Swoon Theory here.

 

[JP2Admirer]

Shenango:

Nan,

I’m afraid you don’t get it. The Qur’an says Jesus (PBUH) never even made it to the cross to be put on it in the first place, much less to be let down alive. No one is propounding Swoon Theory here.

So what you are saying then, is that the Sanhedrin and Pharisees didn’t know who Jesus was? The very men who begged Pilate to crucify Him wouldn’t recognize an imposter? Roman guards would put there own life on the line to save the life of a Galilean carpenter? These same Romans, who typically hated their outpost in Jerusalem?

Explain to me how the Pharisees didn’t recognize the imposter. Historical evidence, base psychological motivations, and any study done with academic rigor disproves your claim.

If Christ wasn’t crucified, what motivated 12 men to go to there deaths claiming it? Under the pain of suffering, why did all 12 of the Apostles accounts turn out the same? Why did they all claim the same thing, that Christ was crucified? Don’t you think, under pain of torture (and they were tortured), if those closest to Christ had come up with a conspiracy to make Christ God, that one of them would have cracked under the pressure and confess that Christ wasn’t crucified? Why do those closest to Christ in history hold that He was crucified? How does Muhammad, who came 600 years later, know better than those WHO WENT TO THEIR DEATHS holding to the fact that Christ was crucified?

My Muslim brothers, pardon my impatience here but how do you beleive something that isn’t verified by anything but one man’s claim? What if I told you that God spoke to me tonight and said that Muhammad was a false prophet. Would you believe me? Don’t bother verifying my claim though, because verification doesn’t matter as long as I say God spoke to me. If I say God spoke to me you should believe it; that’s exactly what Muhammad did and you believe him. The fact is, NO ONE can verify the claims of Muhammad - he had no witnesses.

If I went into court and said that I was innocent of some crime, and had ten people saying I was guilty, who would you believe? If I claimed that I was innocent based on divine authority, but ten people still said I was guilty, who would the jury believe? Muhammad made claims that are unverifiable, that should be a red flag. Muhammad had no clue what Catholicism or who Christ was, why do you believe his claims about Christ?

Any man can do what Muhammad did; claim to be a prophet while being enslaved to the passions. No mere man can do what Christ did; fulfill prophecy.

 

[Faith101]

But you do say that the messages of the messangers have been corrupted and that Muhammed corrected these corruptions, no?

No. These messengers were sent to certain groups of people…what they said was not meant to reach us…b/c they werent sent for all of mankind. Why did they get corrupted? B/c God did not protect them. Why didnt God protect them? B/c there was no need to, everything that was important enough would be in the final, uncorruptible revelation: the Quran.

My question is why Muhammed’s message is incorruptible?

B/c God protects it

 

[Reuben_J]

lahokamal:

Those who maintain that Jesus (pbuh) was killed or is dead are making a serious mistake. One purpose in writing this book is to explain why this is so. In the following pages, we will examine the Qur’anic verses and the hadith of Prophet Muhammad (may God bless him and grant him peace) that reveal the truth of this issue, which has confused so many people over the centuries.

Read for yoursuelf;

harunyahya.com/books/faith/did_not_die/jesus_did_not_die_01.php

The Bible says so, that’s good enough for me.

I would like to see if any human can survive the piercing of a 10 inch spear into his right right side just below the ribs while hanging painfully on the cross after a thorough flogging by the Romans followed by carrying the wooden cross through the street of Jerusalem to Calvary.

The piercing was enough to ensure death. So I don’t know what we are talking about. One can stretch one’s imagination thus far by maintaining Jesus survived the ordeal, but sooner or later the reality seeps in. For how much a human life can take before death takes over. And that’s what happened to Jesus at Calvary for the sake of all of us. And that’s what makes Him great instead of otherwise in the eyes of Christians.

 

[The_Eurasian]

I don’t know if my memory is correct. But in past muslim posts in this subforum, didn’t muslims say that it was alright to lie to people of other religions?

 

[Faith101]

The Eurasian:

I don’t know if my memory is correct. But in past muslim posts in this subforum, didn’t muslims say that it was alright to lie to people of other religions?

Your memory is NOT correct.

The **non-muslims ** on this forum said that it was ok for the Muslims to lie to non-muslims.

The Muslims said it is not.

 

[hlgomez]

My question is why Muhammed’s message is incorruptible?

B/c God protects it

Faith101,

This is a repetition of what others is saying like the Mormons, etc. The Catholic Church, which was by the way older than Islam, claims this from the very beginning. Why is Muhammad copying this line?

Our point as Catholics is–how can you be so sure that it is the same God speaking who guarantees the protection? If you read the Quran, it is not God who dictates the recitations/words to Muhammad, it is an angel. In the Bible, it is not an angel who is speaking in the Gospels–it is God Himself.

Now, there is a good and a bad angel. It is very likely that the angel Muhammad is claiming is a bad angel in disguise. He was deceived–BIG TIME.

Pio

 

[Faith101]

Our point as Catholics is–how can you be so sure that it is the same God speaking who guarantees the protection? If you read the Quran, it is not God who dictates the recitations/words to Muhammad, it is an angel. In the Bible, it is not an angel who is speaking in the Gospels–it is God Himself.

I’ll repeat what i said earlier, hopefully more clearly this time:

The revelation given to Jesus peace be upon him, were for the children of Israel, not for mankind. Ofcourse, as catholics, you have to believe that these words were perserved to support the idea that his teachings were for all of mankind. I’m just giving you the Muslim perspective.

Every people got a prophet…some prophets we know about, some we do not. The only messenger sent for mankind was the last and final messenger, Mohamed (pbuh). Allah protects that message so we, 1400 years later, can be guided (since there are no more messengers). That’s all. I dont expect you to agree, i’m just giving our perspective.

When you say that God himself dictates the Bible, what do you mean? I thought they were written by men who were “inspired” by God. Also, there are contradicting stories in the Bible. For example, something about the number of horses (i dont remember and i dont feel like looking it up ). When asked about this, Christians asy that the people who copied the Bible (before the copy maching) messed up, and added zeroes where they shouldnt have…or whatever. Do you agree with this?

Now, there is a good and a bad angel. It is very likely that the angel Muhammad is claiming is a bad angel in disguise. He was deceived–BIG TIME.

There are no good and bad angels. Angels are only good…they dont have the free will to be bad.

This claim is really silly. Have you read the Quran? Mohamed peace be upon him is calling to the same thing that Abraham called to…was Abraham inspired by a devil?

 

[Booklover]

Faith101:

I’ll repeat what i said earlier, hopefully more clearly this time:

The revelation given to Jesus peace be upon him, were for the children of Israel, not for mankind. Ofcourse, as catholics, you have to believe that these words were perserved to support the idea that his teachings were for all of mankind. I’m just giving you the Muslim perspective

For your information, though this has been said countless times, just before Jesus’ ascension into heaven, he told his disciples to go and make disciples OF ALL THE NATIONS! He had also said that he was the Alpha and the OMEGA, the beginning and the END which means that there would not be anyone coming after him!

 

[Lance]

You can’t have it both ways. Either Jesus or Muhammad is false. Jesus said he was the Son of God, Muhammad says he was just a prophet. They can’t both be right.

I choose to belive Jesus was the Son of God and that Muhammad was a false prophet, therefor Islam is a false religion.

 

[JimG]

Well, it seems that Muslims are coming from a perspective similar to Protestants, except in their case, it would be that the argument is always from “Sola Qu’ran,” rather than sola scriptura.

So it probably does no good to cite sources outside the Qu’ran, as these are considered false or corrupt.

Not only that, but apparently the Qu’ran is not, or has not been subjected to historical, textual, or critical scholarship, as has the bible.

 

[JimG]

Apparently I am wrong about “sola Qu’ran.” Islam also accepts tradition in the form of the Sunnah. But who determines what is in the Sunnah? And I still wonder about the lack of critical scholarship within Islam with respect to the Qu’ran and the Sunnah.

 

[Faith101]

You can’t have it both ways. Either Jesus or Muhammad is false. Jesus said he was the Son of God, Muhammad says he was just a prophet. They can’t both be right.

no where in the Bible is there CLEAR verse indicating that Jesus Christ was god/son of god. If this is the basic foundation of your belief, than it would only make sense for their to be ONE verse that has Jesus telling someone “I am god/son of god, worship me”. On the contrary, tte Bible is full of verses indicating Jesus’s prophethood. I dont want to argue this point…others have pointed out verses that they say indicate his divinity, all of which can be interpreted in a more than one way.

You have the right to believe in whatever you want. But Muslims believe that Jesus and Mohamed peace be upon them both…were messengers from God…sent to relay the message: There is only one God, worship Him. Accept it or deny it, you’ll be asked to explain yourself at the end (so will all of us, ofource).

 

[Faith101]

Booklover:

For your information, though this has been said countless times, just before Jesus’ ascension into heaven, he told his disciples to go and make disciples OF ALL THE NATIONS! He had also said that he was the Alpha and the OMEGA, the beginning and the END which means that there would not be anyone coming after him!

Why was Jesus peace be upon him very cautious in the begining to limit his ministry to only the children of Israel. Why did he tell his disciples to preach ONLY to the children of Israel? If his message was for all of mankind, why would he limit himself early on and then later say go and preach to everyone?

 

[Faith101]

Well, it seems that Muslims are coming from a perspective similar to Protestants, except in their case, it would be that the argument is always from “Sola Qu’ran,” rather than sola scriptura.

So it probably does no good to cite sources outside the Qu’ran, as these are considered false or corrupt.

On the contrary, many books have been written using only Christian documents, questioning Jesus’s divinity.

 

[ashab_al-yameen]

It seems that we have went quite off-topic.

The topic here is titled “Jesus Did Not Die”

Before I place my opinion, I would like to ask the Catholics who are reading this:

Who was Jesus, the Son of the Father?