Jesus Did Not Die

[Ghosty]

Here Paul contradicts Jesus, for Jesus preached that we must observe the Law, while Paul preached that we must only concentrate on faith.

You’re misreading Jesus here, I’m afraid. Jesus Himself did things “against the law”, but He was master of the Law (Torah). Not a letter shall pass away from the Law is “not a letter shall pass away from the Torah”, and Torah is extremely complicated and not simply a matter of following a bunch of little laws.

Jesus completed the Torah, making some parts of the Torah irrelevant, while even further solidifying others. This is not a contradiction, but is actually built into the Torah itself. For example, the Torah demands and regulates Temple worship, but without a temple those laws are irrelevant. Not a letter of the Law (Torah) has passed away, but the relevance of it has. The same is the case with things like dietary laws, which Jews consider “just because” laws intended to seperate Jews from non-Jews. Since, after the coming of the Messiah, all people will be turned towards a single faith in the God of Abraham, such laws are no longer relevant because there is not “Jew and Gentile” to keep seperate.

What Paul is discussing are these parts of the Law that are no longer relevant by the very fact of the Messiah coming. Some Christians were trying to practice the laws that were designed to keep Jews and Gentiles seperate during the pre-Messianic time even though they believed the Messiah had come, so by following the laws (dietary, circumcision) they were actually violating the Law (unity of all people without distinction of Jew and Gentile after the coming of the Messiah). Notice that the law in question deals with seperation between Jews and Gentiles, which is NOT permitted after the coming of the Messiah (both modern Jews and Christians agree on this).

You are making up contradictions where none exist.

 

[The_Eurasian]

ashab al-yameen:

I gave you the source of where I got my info from. What is YOUR evidence that Abbas does not mean “the Father”?

ashab-al-yameen

I was only using common sense and my knowledge that in the bible, I never heard or read Jesus addressing God as "abbaS). But I knew that Jesus, a number of times addressed God as Father, ABBA (without an S).

Because of your question after my post, I GOOGLED the internet for (1)abbas bible (2) abba bible (3)abbas aramaic (4)abba aramaic

In (4) abba aramaic, ----- I saw the webster on line dictionary link and it says that:

abbas (width as S) is abott in “LATE Latin” and “LATE Greek”

abba (without an S) is "father in Aramaic)

Also, according to the internet, “'Abba” is mentioned in the New Testament of the Bible in
(1) Mark 14:36
(2) Romans 8:15
(3) Galatians 4:6
In ABBAS, there are many links and references to Mahmoud Abbas, the Palestinian Leader. Don’t tell us that in your reasoning, all people named Barabbas are his sons!!!

 

[ashab_al-yameen]

+ + + + + + + + + + + +
ashab-al-yameen

I was only using common sense and my knowledge that in the bible, I never heard or read Jesus addressing God as "abbaS). But I knew that Jesus, a number of times addressed God as Father, ABBA (without an S).

Because of your question after my post, I GOOGLED the internet for (1)abbas bible (2) abba bible (3)abbas aramaic (4)abba aramaic

In (4) abba aramaic, ----- I saw the webster on line dictionary link and it says that:

abbas (width as S) is abott in “LATE Latin” and “LATE Greek”

abba (without an S) is "father in Aramaic)

Also, according to the internet, “'Abba” is mentioned in the New Testament of the Bible in
(1) Mark 14:36
(2) Romans 8:15
(3) Galatians 4:6
In ABBAS, there are many links and references to Mahmoud Abbas, the Palestinian Leader. Don’t tell us that in your reasoning, all people named Barabbas are his sons!!!

I seriously have trouble understanding whose reasoning you are ridculing.

Let us see:

abbas (width as S) is abott in “LATE Latin” and “LATE Greek”

KEYWORDS:
LATIN (not Aramaic)
GREEK (not Aramaic)

abba (without an S) is "father in Aramaic)

Also, according to the internet, “'Abba” is mentioned in the New Testament of the Bible in
(1) Mark 14:36
(2) Romans 8:15
(3) Galatians 4:6

Well, you were searching for abba WITHOUT an “S”
That’s what the problem was.

If you searched for
Barabbas son of father

You would have found the following:

Apollonius.Net - Son Of Father Superior
Jesus Barabbas was the Son of the “Heavenly” Father! Jesus Barabbas was the “Son
of Man” and the “Son of God”! ***. Robertino Solàrion Dallas, Texas …
www.apollonius.net/fathersuperior.html - 56k - Cached - Similar pages

Amazon.com: Books: Barabbas (Vintage International)
Second, the name “Barabbas” itself means “son of the father”–Christ, of course,
referred to himself as the “Son of Man.” Though this is a historical novel, …
www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/067972544X?v=glance - 87k - Cached - Similar pages

Barabbas - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Mark’s parallels between the two men, each a “Jesus, son of the Father,” …
of a “Son of the Father” — Barabbas, originally called Jesus Barabbas. …
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barabbas - 24k - Cached - Similar pages

Jesus Barabbas
Barabbas is made up of the Aramaic words br meaning “son” and aba meaning “father.”
Thus, “Barabbas” from the Aramaic means "son of the father. …
www.redbay.com/ekklesia/barabbas.htm - 7k - Cached - Similar pages

Le Sabot Post-Moderne: Barabbas and Me
… literally, “Son of the father.” So, Barabbas may not have existed at all! …
That makes more sense as an application of “Son of the Father” than any …
www.postmodernclog.com/archives/000437.html - 17k - Cached - Similar pages

The Absurd Life: Barabbas and Christ
Barabbas is from the Hebrew bar (son) and Abba (Father), which is to say “son of
the Father” because the term Abba was a sacred name of God. …
www.infidels.org/library/modern/james_still/absurd.html - 23k - Cached - Similar pages

Barabbas: Definition and Much More From Answers.com
Barabbas (bərăb’əs) [Aram.,=son of the father], bandit held in jail at the time
of Jesus’ arrest. Pontius Pilate, who, according to the Gospels, …
www.answers.com/topic/barabbas - 45k - Cached - Similar pages

Googlism : where is barabbas
barabbas is quite a contrast to christ’s character barabbas is taken to mean “son
of the father” barabbas is a poetic meditation based on matthew 27 …
www.googlism.com/where_is/b/barabbas/ - 13k - Cached - Similar pages

Barabbas: Profile & Biography of Barabbas, Chosen for Release by …
Barabbas was a criminal whom the gospels say was released by the Romans …
Bar-abbas means ‘son of the father,’ thus a false ‘son of the father’ was chosen …
Who Was Barabbas? - 27k - Cached - Similar pages

Movie Review: Barabbas (The Prayer Foundation)
This is the fictionalized story of Barabbas based on a fascinating passage in
the New … He was freed, and the true “Son of the Father” was crucified. …
Movie Review: Barabbas (The Prayer Foundation) - 21k - Cached - Similar pages

I clicked on

Barabbas - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Mark’s parallels between the two men, each a “Jesus, son of the Father,” …
of a “Son of the Father” — Barabbas, originally called Jesus Barabbas. …
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barabbas - 24k - Cached - Similar pages

And in it I found:

Jesus bar-Abbas, (Aramaic Bar-abbâ, “son of the father”)

 

[The_Eurasian]

Ashab al Yameen

You are quoting Wikipedia quite a lot. Do you know how wikipedia is constructed??? I myself can include my writings and EXPAND wikipedia if I wanted to. So can you and everybody!!!
Abbas (with an S) only came LATER, after Jesus. That is why it is LATE Latin and LATE Greek and NOT EARLY Latin, NOT EARLY Greek.

WIKIPEDIA came MUCH, MUCH, MUCH, MUCH,MUCH LATER, ONL:Y A FEW YEARS AGO WHEN THE INTERNET WAS INVENTED!!!
Jesus was KNOWN TO THE PHARISEES AND SADDUCES WHEN JESUS WAS JUST A CHILD!!! Jesus as a child was there teaching, explaining, questioning the PHARISEES AND SADDUCES AND LEARNED PEOPLE IN THE TEMPLE. ***** SO THE PHARISEES AND SADDUCES KNEW THE FACE OF JESUS EVEN WHEN HE WAS STILL A CHILD THERE IN THE TEMPLE!!! NO WAY WILL THE PHARISEES AND SADDUCES BE FOOLED INTO MISTAKING THE PRISONER BARABBAS FOR JESUS, SON OF MARY!!!

Jesus was also well known to the crowds of people because they saw him multiply 2 fishes and 5 loaves of bread into several baskets which fed some 5,000 people. They saw Jesus do other miracles, cure lepers, raise the dead, cure the sick, preach, tell parables, forgive sins. The world of Jesus was not very big, maybe just the size of some city in the United States. Many people knew him. They wouldn’t be fooled into mistaking Barabbas the prisoner for Jesus, Son of Mary.

On the cross, Jesus was saying, ELI ELI ELI SABACHTANI. Even the high priests thought Jesus was calling for Elias!!!. Unknown to them, Jesus was quoting a verse in Psalms. You think, a bad criminal like Barabbas WILL KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT SUCH A VERSE IN THE BOOK OF PSALMS??? Why, not even the high priests and pharisees and sadduces knew about it!!!

 

[JimG]

Ashab al Yameen,
Let me see if I’ve got this straight. Jesus did not die because Jesus was really Barabbas the insurgent.

You base this on your etymology of the word “barabbas.” And you get the story of Barabbas from the Christian New Testament.

Yet you do not accept the authority of the New Testament on other matters—matters which refute your interpretation.

Jesus’ mother Mary and the Apostle John stood at the foot of the cross. Mary didn’t recognize her Son? John didn’t know his Master?

The Sanhedrin didn’t realize they had handed over the wrong man to be crucified?

Joseph of Arimathea buried the wrong man in his tomb? He was a follower of Jesus, after all.

Jesus appeared to His disciples after his resurrection and showed them the nail holes in his hands and feet. --Was this also Barabbas?

The evangelists all recorded in detail the narrative of the crucifixion of a man who was merely a criminal and a stranger?

The Apostle John who had been there, wrote in his gospel, speaking of himself: “It is this same disciple who is the witness to these things; it is he who wrote them down, and his testimony, we know, is true.”

There are simply too many holes in your theory for it to be taken seriously.

 

[Writer]

Joseph_Alison:

Salaam Writer;

May be because they care for you and don’t want to disturb your beliefs or offend you.

Do you have any credit to claim by what others accomplished in your country?
Does Islam teach not to look, search, study, and investigate? If the answer is yes, then you can accuse Islam for being the culprit. Study Islam and you will find the answers.

Salaam.
Joseph.

No one is “claiming credit” personally for anything. We are only inquiring what breakthroughs in culture or the sciences has any Islamic nation made since the 12th century? Even your wealthy nations, such as Saudi Arabia, seem more inclined to support suicide bombers in Israel than the vast array of humanitarian needs found in your poverty-stricken countries. in fact, I understand countries such as an England and the US were some of the greatest contributors of aid after December’s tsunami hit those Asian countries. Why is this, for example?

When you look at your nation, your culture, what do you see that it has brought to the world to make it a better place? In many Islamic nations, one reads of schools for the children which focus on anger towards the “infidels”, the non-Muslims. When 9-11 took place, there were celebrations in the streets in some Muslim cities, as I recall–unless I am thinking of a case when Israel suffered an attack. Is it that all of your energies are focused on hate and violence and not simply doing good and enjoying the fruits of peace? According to the CIA’s website, the slamic Republic of Pakistan has been dealing with terrible poverty now for many years. The average lifespan is only just over sixty, and the infant mortality rate is over ten-times higher than in the United States. While they have managed to apparently develop nuclear technology (for use against India), they are otherwise mired in a political turmoil and deep poverty. When compared to many of your Islamic nations, however, Pakistan looks to be a regular oasis of life and technology…an example of sorts. Why can’t they do better? Why do westerners have to help you care for your own poor and downtrodden?

 

[Writer]

Joseph_Alison:

Salaam Writer;

May be because they care for you and don’t want to disturb your beliefs or offend you.

Do you have any credit to claim by what others accomplished in your country?
Does Islam teach not to look, search, study, and investigate? If the answer is yes, then you can accuse Islam for being the culprit. Study Islam and you will find the answers.

Salaam.
Joseph.

No one is “claiming credit” personally for anything. We are only inquiring what breakthroughs in culture or the sciences has any Islamic nation made since the 12th century? Even your wealthy nations, such as Saudi Arabia, seem more inclined to support suicide bombers in Israel than provide aid regarding the vast array of humanitarian needs found in your poverty-stricken countries. in fact, I understand countries such as an England and the US were some of the greatest contributors of aid after December’s tsunami. Why is this? Is this how Mohammed desires for you to treat your brothers?

When you look at your nation, your culture, what do you see that it has brought to the world to make it a better place? In many Islamic nations, one reads of schools for the children which focus on anger towards the “infidels”, the non-Muslims. When 9-11 took place, there were celebrations in the streets in some Muslim cities, as I recall–unless I am thinking of a case when Israel suffered an attack. Is it that all of your energies are focused on hate and violence and not simply doing good and enjoying the fruits of peace? According to the CIA’s website, the Islamic Republic of Pakistan has been dealing with crushing poverty now for many years. The average lifespan is only just over sixty, and the infant mortality rate is over ten-times higher than in the United States. While they have managed to apparently develop nuclear technology (for use against India), they are otherwise mired in a political turmoil and deep poverty. When compared to many of your Islamic nations, however, Pakistan looks to be a regular oasis of life and technology…an example of sorts. Why can’t they do better? Why do westerners have to help you care for your own poor and downtrodden?

 

[Writer]

Writer:

No one is “claiming credit” personally for anything. We are only inquiring what breakthroughs in culture or the sciences has any Islamic nation made since the 12th century? Even your wealthy nations, such as Saudi Arabia, seem more inclined to support suicide bombers in Israel than provide aid regarding the vast array of humanitarian needs found in your poverty-stricken countries. in fact, I understand countries such as an England and the US were some of the greatest contributors of aid after December’s tsunami. Why is this? Is this how Mohammed desires for you to treat your brothers?

When you look at your nation, your culture, what do you see that it has brought to the world to make it a better place? In many Islamic nations, one reads of schools for the children which focus on anger towards the “infidels”, the non-Muslims. When 9-11 took place, there were celebrations in the streets in some Muslim cities, as I recall–unless I am thinking of a case when Israel suffered an attack. Is it that all of your energies are focused on hate and violence and not simply doing good and enjoying the fruits of peace?

According to the CIA’s website, the Islamic Republic of Pakistan has been dealing with crushing poverty now for many years. The average lifespan is only just over sixty, and the infant mortality rate is over ten-times higher than in the United States. While they have managed to apparently develop nuclear technology (for use against India), they are otherwise mired in a political turmoil and deep poverty. When compared to many of your Islamic nations, however, Pakistan looks to be a regular oasis of life and technology…an example of sorts. Why can’t they do better? Why do westerners have to help you care for your own poor and downtrodden? If Mohammed’s chosen are unable to care for their most frail, vulnerable, and poor, what does this say about the religion as a whole? As Christ observed in Luke 11:11-13, there is an importance in our daily needs, an acknowlegement that when a son asks his father for bread, he will not receive a stone instead. With so many Musims going hungry and suffering, however, one must question a religion where the followers appear unable or unwilling to aid their brothers to a significant extent and instead focus on fueling the fires of hate and violence in the young and old.

 

[Writer]

Joseph_Alison:

Salaam Writer;

May be because they care for you and don’t want to disturb your beliefs or offend you.

Do you have any credit to claim by what others accomplished in your country?
Does Islam teach not to look, search, study, and investigate? If the answer is yes, then you can accuse Islam for being the culprit. Study Islam and you will find the answers.

Salaam.
Joseph.

(PLEASE DISREGARD THE LAST DUPLICATE POST.)

No one is “claiming credit” personally for anything. We are only inquiring what breakthroughs in culture or the sciences has any Islamic nation made since the 12th century? Even your wealthy nations, such as Saudi Arabia, seem more inclined to support suicide bombers in Israel than provide aid regarding the vast array of humanitarian needs found in your poverty-stricken countries. in fact, I understand countries such as an England and the US were some of the greatest contributors of aid after December’s tsunami. Why is this? Is this how Mohammed desires for you to treat your brothers?

When you look at your countries, your culture as a whole, what do you see that it has brought to the world to make it a better place? In many Islamic nations, one reads of schools for the children which focus on anger towards the “infidels”, the non-Muslims. When 9-11 took place, there were celebrations in the streets in some Muslim cities, as I recall–unless I am thinking of a case when Israel suffered an attack. Is it that all of your energies are focused on hate and violence and not simply doing good and enjoying the fruits of peace?

According to the CIA’s website, the Islamic Republic of Pakistan has been dealing with crushing poverty now for many years. The average lifespan is only just over sixty, and the infant mortality rate is over ten-times higher than in the United States. While they have managed to apparently develop nuclear technology (for use against India), they are otherwise mired in a political turmoil and deep poverty. When compared to many of your Islamic nations, however, Pakistan looks to be a regular oasis of life and technology…an example of sorts. Why can’t they do better? Why do westerners have to help you care for your own poor and downtrodden? If Mohammed’s chosen are unable to care for their most frail, vulnerable, and poor, what does this say about the religion as a whole? As Christ observed in Luke 11:11-13, there is an importance in our daily needs, an acknowlegement that when a son asks his father for bread, he will not receive a stone instead. With so many Musims going hungry and suffering, however, one must question a religion where the followers appear unable or unwilling to aid their brothers to a significant extent and instead focus on fueling the fires of hate and violence in the young and old. There seems to be a lot more passion and excitement, for example, about killing jews than helping your poor reach a level of life which is at least a few steps beyond starvation. Yet, many of your countries depend on the strong economic force of western economies to assist you, or Christian saints such as Mother Teressa who provide aid and care for the “untouchables” of society.

 

[ashab_al-yameen]

JimG:

Ashab al Yameen,
Let me see if I’ve got this straight. Jesus did not die because Jesus was really Barabbas the insurgent.

You base this on your etymology of the word “barabbas.” And you get the story of Barabbas from the Christian New Testament.

Yet you do not accept the authority of the New Testament on other matters—matters which refute your interpretation.

Jesus’ mother Mary and the Apostle John stood at the foot of the cross. Mary didn’t recognize her Son? John didn’t know his Master?

The Sanhedrin didn’t realize they had handed over the wrong man to be crucified?

Joseph of Arimathea buried the wrong man in his tomb? He was a follower of Jesus, after all.

Jesus appeared to His disciples after his resurrection and showed them the nail holes in his hands and feet. --Was this also Barabbas?

The evangelists all recorded in detail the narrative of the crucifixion of a man who was merely a criminal and a stranger?

The Apostle John who had been there, wrote in his gospel, speaking of himself: “It is this same disciple who is the witness to these things; it is he who wrote them down, and his testimony, we know, is true.”

There are simply too many holes in your theory for it to be taken seriously.

There are holes, however, in the theory that Jesus Christ was crucified in the place of an insurrectionist.

My theory:
The identities of “Jesus who is called the Messiah” and “Jesus Barabbas” were switched in text, yet not in real life. Jesus Christ was probably the actual Jesus Christ, while “Jesus who is called the Messiah” was a self-claimed king of the Jews, an insurrectionist preparing to topple Pilate’s reign.

Why?

For the following reasons:

Pontius Pilate would me insane to free an insurrectionist and crucify a man who did no harm to his rule.
The morale of Pilate’s soldiers would decrease if they saw Pilate free an insurrectionist who had commited murder.

Pilate had a lot more interest in killing an insurrectionist than to kill some Jewish Prophet.

insurrection: The act or an instance of open revolt against civil authority or a constituted government.

Are you telling me that Pilate would free a man who revolted against him and crucify some man that had problems with his fellow Jews?

 

[ashab_al-yameen]

(PLEASE DISREGARD THE LAST DUPLICATE POST.)

No one is “claiming credit” personally for anything. We are only inquiring what breakthroughs in culture or the sciences has any Islamic nation made since the 12th century? Even your wealthy nations, such as Saudi Arabia, seem more inclined to support suicide bombers in Israel than provide aid regarding the vast array of humanitarian needs found in your poverty-stricken countries. in fact, I understand countries such as an England and the US were some of the greatest contributors of aid after December’s tsunami. Why is this? Is this how Mohammed desires for you to treat your brothers?

When you look at your countries, your culture as a whole, what do you see that it has brought to the world to make it a better place? In many Islamic nations, one reads of schools for the children which focus on anger towards the “infidels”, the non-Muslims. When 9-11 took place, there were celebrations in the streets in some Muslim cities, as I recall–unless I am thinking of a case when Israel suffered an attack. Is it that all of your energies are focused on hate and violence and not simply doing good and enjoying the fruits of peace?

According to the CIA’s website, the Islamic Republic of Pakistan has been dealing with crushing poverty now for many years. The average lifespan is only just over sixty, and the infant mortality rate is over ten-times higher than in the United States. While they have managed to apparently develop nuclear technology (for use against India), they are otherwise mired in a political turmoil and deep poverty. When compared to many of your Islamic nations, however, Pakistan looks to be a regular oasis of life and technology…an example of sorts. Why can’t they do better? Why do westerners have to help you care for your own poor and downtrodden? If Mohammed’s chosen are unable to care for their most frail, vulnerable, and poor, what does this say about the religion as a whole? As Christ observed in Luke 11:11-13, there is an importance in our daily needs, an acknowlegement that when a son asks his father for bread, he will not receive a stone instead. With so many Musims going hungry and suffering, however, one must question a religion where the followers appear unable or unwilling to aid their brothers to a significant extent and instead focus on fueling the fires of hate and violence in the young and old. There seems to be a lot more passion and excitement, for example, about killing jews than helping your poor reach a level of life which is at least a few steps beyond starvation. Yet, many of your countries depend on the strong economic force of western economies to assist you, or Christian saints such as Mother Teressa who provide aid and care for the “untouchables” of society.

DO NOT BLAME A RELIGION BECAUSE OF ITS PEOPLE.

If you would like to do so, then Christianity would be considered more perverted than Islam.

Look at cnn.com/2005/LAW/08/17/btk.killings.ap/index.html

In it you will read:

Rader, a 60-year-old former church congregation president and Boy Scout leader, pleaded guilty in June to the slayings of the Oteros and six other people between 1974 and 1991. The slayings terrorize the Wichita area until Rader was arrested in February.

along with

As the sentencing hearing for Rader started, Kansas Bureau of Investigation special agent Larry Thomas testified that after Rader killed Josephine Otero’s parents and brother, he took the girl to the basement. Prosecutors projected to a screen Rader’s recollection of the exchange he had with Josephine before he killed her.

“What’s going to happen to me?” she asks.

Rader: “Well, honey, you’re going to be in heaven with the rest of your family.”

Rader then hanged the girl and masturbated over her body.

and

In describing Bright’s killing to police, Rader said, “I’m sorry. I know this is a human being, but I’m a monster.”

and

 

[ashab_al-yameen]

Ghosty:

You’re misreading Jesus here, I’m afraid. Jesus Himself did things “against the law”, but He was master of the Law (Torah). Not a letter shall pass away from the Law is “not a letter shall pass away from the Torah”, and Torah is extremely complicated and not simply a matter of following a bunch of little laws.

Jesus completed the Torah, making some parts of the Torah irrelevant, while even further solidifying others. This is not a contradiction, but is actually built into the Torah itself. For example, the Torah demands and regulates Temple worship, but without a temple those laws are irrelevant. Not a letter of the Law (Torah) has passed away, but the relevance of it has. The same is the case with things like dietary laws, which Jews consider “just because” laws intended to seperate Jews from non-Jews. Since, after the coming of the Messiah, all people will be turned towards a single faith in the God of Abraham, such laws are no longer relevant because there is not “Jew and Gentile” to keep seperate.

What Paul is discussing are these parts of the Law that are no longer relevant by the very fact of the Messiah coming. Some Christians were trying to practice the laws that were designed to keep Jews and Gentiles seperate during the pre-Messianic time even though they believed the Messiah had come, so by following the laws (dietary, circumcision) they were actually violating the Law (unity of all people without distinction of Jew and Gentile after the coming of the Messiah). Notice that the law in question deals with seperation between Jews and Gentiles, which is NOT permitted after the coming of the Messiah (both modern Jews and Christians agree on this).

You are making up contradictions where none exist.

You did not answer the arguments I made in blue.

Here they are again:

Matthew 5:19
Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven

1 Corithians 10:25
Eat anything sold in the meat market without raising questions of conscience,

 

[marlo]

why he is not in heaven?, while Jesus and other prophet already went there? are they greater than him? did ask yourself that question?

r.gonzales:

easily… by Allah’s mercy and permission.

 

[JimG]

Why was Jesus crucified? (Speaking that is, from the standpoint of Roman history, law, and politics, rather than theology.) That is one of the key questions that Paula Fredricksen attempts to explore in her book. While I cannot tell from her book whether she is Christian, Jewish, or of no religion whatever, she does tackle that question seriously, and goes into much more depth than we have been able to do on this board. It is not a book of apologetics, and it will not fully satisfy partisans of any stripe from a religious standpoint, but it is certainly rich in historical detail, and worth at least checking out of the library.

 

[Ghosty]

ashab al-yameen:

You did not answer the arguments I made in blue.

Here they are again:

Matthew 5:19
Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven

1 Corithians 10:25
Eat anything sold in the meat market without raising questions of conscience,

Yes, I did answer them, you just aren’t listening carefully. When Jews and Gentiles are seperate, it is a commandment that Jews eat seperately and eat different foods. After the unification of the Jews and Gentiles under the Messiah, such prohibitions become irrelevant because there IS no “Jew and Gentile”.

The laws did not pass away, their context did. No seperation means no requirement for dietary seperation. Just like no Temple means no requirement to follow the Temple practices.

 

[Andrew_11]

Ghosty:

Yes, I did answer them, you just aren’t listening carefully. When Jews and Gentiles are seperate, it is a commandment that Jews eat seperately and eat different foods. After the unification of the Jews and Gentiles under the Messiah, such prohibitions become irrelevant because there IS no “Jew and Gentile”.

The laws did not pass away, their context did. No seperation means no requirement for dietary seperation. Just like no Temple means no requirement to follow the Temple practices.

Didn’t Jesus give us permission to eat all food when he said it isn’t what geos into a body that makes it unholy, its what comes out?

 

[The_Eurasian]

Writer:

When you look at your countries, your culture as a whole, what do you see that it has brought to the world to make it a better place?

ATTENTION: US SURGEON GENERAL

I am not a Musim but a Catholic. Muslims have also done some good. For example, this is an incident where a child drowned. Most likely the small child was a Chistian/Catholic child because the crowd was mostly Catholic. This happened sometime in the 1930’s.

The child drowned and the crowd did not know what to do. As such, the child would have died, WERE IT NOT DUE TO THE EXPERTISE OF A MUSLIM FISHERMAN.

The Muslim fisherman got the child, turned the child upside down, held the child by the ankles, one ankle on each hand and held the child that way on his (Muslim’s) back. Then the Muslim fisherman started to jog, so UP DOWN UP DOWN UP DOWN THEY WENT. Suddenly WATER FELL DOWN THE CHILD’S MOUTH AND THE CHILD MADE A SOUND. THAT’S ARTIFICIAL RESUCITATION-MUSLIM STYLE!!! THANKS TO THE EXPERTISE OF MUSLIM FISHERMEN!!!

I think that this technique might be more superior than the technique used by US firemen and medical personnel. Now that you’ve heard about this muslim technique, maybe the surgeon generals of the world can study it AS AN ALTERNATIVE WAY OR PERHAPS BETTER AND EASIER WAY TO SAVE DROWNING VICTIMS, WITHOUT EVEN PUTTING ONE’S MOUTH ON THE MOUTH OF THE VICTIM.

PS. I did not personally witness this but I heard this from somebody who personally witnessed it.

 

[Catholic_Dude]

ashab al-yameen:

My theory:
The identities of “Jesus who is called the Messiah” and “Jesus Barabbas” were switched in text, yet not in real life. Jesus Christ was probably the actual Jesus Christ, while “Jesus who is called the Messiah” was a self-claimed king of the Jews, an insurrectionist preparing to topple Pilate’s reign.

Why?

For the following reasons:

Pontius Pilate would me insane to free an insurrectionist and crucify a man who did no harm to his rule.
The morale of Pilate’s soldiers would decrease if they saw Pilate free an insurrectionist who had commited murder.

Pilate had a lot more interest in killing an insurrectionist than to kill some Jewish Prophet.

insurrection: The act or an instance of open revolt against civil authority or a constituted government.

Are you telling me that Pilate would free a man who revolted against him and crucify some man that had problems with his fellow Jews?

Nothing makes Pilate more insane than leaving it up to the popular vote.
Barabbas! Barabbas!

 

[Writer]

ashab al-yameen:

DO NOT BLAME A RELIGION BECAUSE OF ITS PEOPLE.

If you would like to do so, then Christianity would be considered more perverted than Islam.

Look at cnn.com/2005/LAW/08/17/btk.killings.ap/index.html

In it you will read:

Rader, a 60-year-old former church congregation president and Boy Scout leader, pleaded guilty in June to the slayings of the Oteros and six other people between 1974 and 1991. The slayings terrorize the Wichita area until Rader was arrested in February.

along with

As the sentencing hearing for Rader started, Kansas Bureau of Investigation special agent Larry Thomas testified that after Rader killed Josephine Otero’s parents and brother, he took the girl to the basement. Prosecutors projected to a screen Rader’s recollection of the exchange he had with Josephine before he killed her.

“What’s going to happen to me?” she asks.

Rader: “Well, honey, you’re going to be in heaven with the rest of your family.”

Rader then hanged the girl and masturbated over her body.

and

In describing Bright’s killing to police, Rader said, “I’m sorry. I know this is a human being, but I’m a monster.”

and

I understand what you are saying, and I agree with you on a certain level. We both agree that man is fallen, and any religion or faith on earth will be corrupted to a degree because of man’s “bent” nature within. Having said that, however, what I was looking for was some glipmse into how Muslims perceive themselves. How is your cultural and religious identity viewed from within, and what do you hold to be some of your greatest accomplishments of the more recent history? While judging any religion by the poor behavior of a fraction of its followers is unfair, it seems justified to be concerned regarding a faith which does not seem to enourage cultural or scientific growth or exploration or even simple charity of thought or deed.

 

[Ghosty]

Andrew_11:

Didn’t Jesus give us permission to eat all food when he said it isn’t what geos into a body that makes it unholy, its what comes out?

Yeah, it can be read that way, and obviously it’s Jesus who made these particulars irrelevant. We also can’t forget, however, that the disciples didn’t drop the Kosher particulars for some time, and it actually required Peter having an intense vision for it to sink in.

This vision occurs in Acts 10, at the same time a Gentile is sending his men to find Peter. That same chapter describes, for the first time, Gentiles being gifted with the Holy Spirit, and Peter even explains that his vision fits in. There is no more seperation between Jew and Gentile, and the very way God showed this was by indicating directly that the Kosher prohibitions were irrelevant; He didn’t just say “go Baptise Gentiles too”.

God Bless!