Jesus didn't stay dead. So what real sacrifice was there?
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The short answer is “so what?”
the longer answer is “Why do you get to define the appropriate length Jesus stayed dead before it becomes a sacrifice?”
Of course the real answer is that Jesus died and his blood was shed. That’s the sacrifice right there.
Do not fall into the trap of immediately granting your attackers’ premises. Quite often you can argue by simply identifying and shooting down false premises from the outset.
po18guy
Well-known member
This is theology and it is very difficult to argue theology with one who rejects the “theo.”
Secondly, if they cannot or will not grasp the concept of transcendence, there is little point in a conversation. God is Transcendent, therefore if they cannot grasp the concept, you may end up having two separate conversations which go past each other.
Just me, but I would work on the concept of transcendence first.
Secondly, if they cannot or will not grasp the concept of transcendence, there is little point in a conversation. God is Transcendent, therefore if they cannot grasp the concept, you may end up having two separate conversations which go past each other.
Just me, but I would work on the concept of transcendence first.
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EndTimes
Guest
Jesus didn’t stay dead. So what real sacrifice was there?
The very premise and question reveal an ignorance.
Plus… Some only waste time attempting to disprove Love and Truth…
They’d first have to be taught exactly what “Sacrifice” is all about…
Then realize: What greater ‘thing’ to give as Sacrifice - as God Himself !
And what Flesh and Spirit are…
Thing is? As ‘things’ get closer to Jesus’ Return,
It’s very possible that more non-believers shall become believers
Tell them? Be patient?
_
The very premise and question reveal an ignorance.
Plus… Some only waste time attempting to disprove Love and Truth…
They’d first have to be taught exactly what “Sacrifice” is all about…
Then realize: What greater ‘thing’ to give as Sacrifice - as God Himself !
And what Flesh and Spirit are…
Thing is? As ‘things’ get closer to Jesus’ Return,
It’s very possible that more non-believers shall become believers
Tell them? Be patient?
_
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Gorgias
Guest
You attend the Super Bowl, but then go home. You’re not at the Super Bowl all your life. Yet, you would say “I actually did participate in the Super Bowl.”
Similar thing here. Jesus actually did die, and actually did give up His life for us. So… it was a real sacrifice.
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VonDerTann
Guest
Good answer!
The fact that at any moment of His unimaginable suffering, He could have called every angel in heaven for assistance, but didn’t, and all for us, is also suggestive of great sacrifice.
The fact that at any moment of His unimaginable suffering, He could have called every angel in heaven for assistance, but didn’t, and all for us, is also suggestive of great sacrifice.
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Stephen_says
Guest
I’ve meditated on this before, and as I would reiterate what everyone else said already, I would also like to point out that part of his sacrifice was his obedience to the point of death, even death on a cross.
So we shouldn’t view sacrifice as only what happens when you kill something, but what happens when you do the will of God; when you make something holy, that is a sacrifice, and Jesus made humanity Holy by his sacrifice of obedience to the point of Death.
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Damian02
Guest
Well I don’t but I think that if you had spent 12 hours being abused, lashed, the skin being torn and flayed off your body, being alone to experience the sins of man for all time, while being nailed to a cross being tormented by the devil and his demons, watching your mothers heartbreaking, I think that would qualify as sacrifice, just saying.
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mythbuster1
Guest
Because of the sins of the world, He died. Because of His own Righteousness, He rose from the dead.
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EndTimes
Guest
His Atonement Sacrifice Defeated Death.
Ergo? He Rose from the dead!
Ergo? He Rose from the dead!
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Vico
Guest
By death Jesus Christ destroyed the power of death of the soul. The bodies still die and are resurrected, but the better resurrection is with life in the soul and a glorified body.
Matthew 10
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Lion_IRC
Guest
Answer #1 That’s a non sequitur. Something ‘good’ happening to Jesus after His earlier act of altruism doesn’t constitute a logical negation. If I’m awarded a bravery medal for saving someone else’s life, does that invalidate the fact I voluntarily risked my life?
Answer #2 Dying and staying dead is not the measure of self-sacrifice. The atheist wants to claim this but it’s a form of special pleading. Atheists don’t get to define the term “real sacrifice.”
And to prove the point ask the atheist this - "according to atheism, there’s no afterlife and we’re all going to die anyway so what difference does dying make to the atheist?
Answer #3 Jesus doesn’t force anyone to accept His sacrifice. Atheists are free to take it or leave it.
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PennyinCanada
Guest
Did you watch the 10 Commandments? How the lambs were slain, the blood of those lambs marked the door frames, and death passed by?
All of that was pointing forward to Jesus coming. John the Baptist sees Jesus and proclaims There is the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world! and so it is.
The lambs that were chosen were to be the whitest, without blemish, sacrificed to God. Likely an atheist would complain of the harsh and unjust treatment of an innocent animal, demanded by an unjust and unreasonable God. Yet, when Christ came to be the Lamb of God, they don’t have any issue with it. It’s no big deal. They remain unmoved.
All of that was pointing forward to Jesus coming. John the Baptist sees Jesus and proclaims There is the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world! and so it is.
The lambs that were chosen were to be the whitest, without blemish, sacrificed to God. Likely an atheist would complain of the harsh and unjust treatment of an innocent animal, demanded by an unjust and unreasonable God. Yet, when Christ came to be the Lamb of God, they don’t have any issue with it. It’s no big deal. They remain unmoved.
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Hodos
Guest
The resurrection doesn’t make Christ’s death on the cross any less real, nor any less effective from the perspective of atonement. Rather the resurrection offers us a tangible sign that Jesus did indeed defeat the power of sin, death, and the devil over us.
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Ignatius
Guest
It’s no different for us. We believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have dies.
So, if someone dies jumping on a hand grenade to save his fellow soldiers, is he not making a sacrificial act? Of course he is, giving up your life is no less of a sacrifice, no matter if you will later be brought back to life.
So, if someone dies jumping on a hand grenade to save his fellow soldiers, is he not making a sacrificial act? Of course he is, giving up your life is no less of a sacrifice, no matter if you will later be brought back to life.
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fhansen
Guest
We don’t stay dead either. He went through all that to demonstrate that, while expressing the extent to which He’d go to prove His love and forgiveness of humankind.
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Theban
Guest
It’s a bit ironic, I think, when atheists claim that Jesus didn’t truly sacrifice himself, when the whole phrase “to sacrifice” as used today comes from the story of Jesus.
The word “sacrifice” signifies a religious practice, and the only reason we use it also to signify giving something up for the sake of others is because Jesus took the role of the sacrificial lamb, giving up on his earthly life for our sake, and forever coined the term “self-sacrifice”.
The word “sacrifice” signifies a religious practice, and the only reason we use it also to signify giving something up for the sake of others is because Jesus took the role of the sacrificial lamb, giving up on his earthly life for our sake, and forever coined the term “self-sacrifice”.
C
Cathoholic
Guest
Guest1 . . . .
You will rise someday too.
But that doesn’t mean you didn’t offer your life if you lay down your life!
There is a sacrifice if you give your life for a friend too.
You will rise someday too.
But that doesn’t mean you didn’t offer your life if you lay down your life!
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Zaccheus
Guest
Is pain not real unless it lasts forever?
Well, it wasn’t so much the death as what led up to it. It was necessary to rise from the dead to conquer death for all mankind. But the ordeal Jesus had to suffer for us was the sacrifice. Remember he also had a human nature, that was tempted, and had anxieties and fears. Obviously there was the physical suffering he had to go through, but also the mental anguish of knowing this was going to happen and yet still accepting it. He would have been afraid, perhaps he doubted the Father’s wisdom in his human nature, maybe he worried that he might not rise.
Not to mention all his closest friends abandoning him or denying him.
And then there’s the fact that he had all the weight of all the sins past, present, and future on his shoulders, this added to his suffering.
His pain was real and his death was no less a death because he rose again. You could even say that his death was more terrible and more real than any other human. Because He was God. God made himself human and accepted death to save us. That’s the biggest sacrifice.
Once he was dead, His mission was accomplished. It was necessary for him to die, but equally necessary for him to rise again.
In any case, debating theology with an atheist tends to go nowhere, in my experience they often purposely misunderstand or misconstrue elements of theological teaching without thinking about it.
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