Jesus died in India

[Nikhil]

Being from India this thread is hilarious. Besides if Jesus Christ landed up here we would have known. 2000 years is not that long ago.

St. Thomas landed on our shores in AD 52 and we have a lot of information preserved We have the first church he established, we have his relics, we have a lot of factual evidence that “Doubting Thomas” did make it clear across to our land.

To suggest that Jesus his Lord and Master was here and Thomas did not even suggest it is very good reason for most us to believe that he did not come here as suggested. Of course Jesus Christ has been here in Spirit ever since!

 

[paarsurrey]

Hi
Mirza Ghulam Ahmad 1835-1908, the PromisedMessiahImamMahdi adds following argument in his book "Jesus in India"http://www.alislam.org/library/books/jesus-in-india/index.html
"On this point the Bible has more evidence which I proceed to state below. There is the statement of Jesus: ‘But after I am risen again, I will go before you into Galilee’ (Matthew: chapter 26, verse 32). This verse clearly shows that Jesus, after he had come out of the tomb, went to Galilee and not to heaven. Jesus’ words ‘After I am risen’ do not mean his rising up alive after he was dead; rather, as in the eyes of the Jews and the common people he had died on the Cross, he used words beforehand consistent with what they were to think of him in the future, and indeed, the man who was placed on the Cross, in whose hands and feet nails had been driven till he had fainted from pain, had become as good as dead; if such a man was saved from such a calamity and if he recovered his senses it would not be an exaggeration on his part to say that he had come to life again. There is no doubt that after so much suffering, Jesus’ escape from death was a miracle; it was no ordinary event. But to think that he had died is wrong. It is true that in the books of the New Testament words of this kind occur, but this is a mistake of the writers of those books, just as they had committed mistakes in recording several other historical events. Commentators who have made researches into these books admit that the books of the New Testament have two parts: (1) the spiritual instruction received by the disciples from Jesus (peace be on him) which is the essence of the teachings of the Gospel; (2) historical events – like the genealogy of Jesus; his arrest and his being beaten; the existence in his time of a miraculous pond, etc. These, the writers recorded by themselves; they were not revealed; rather, they were set down in accordance with the writer’s own ideas. In some places there are undue exaggerations, as where it is stated that if all the miracles and works of Jesus were recorded in books, the earth would not be able to accommodate these books. How exaggerated is this statement!

Apart from this, it is not against usages of speech to describe the great calamity which had befallen Jesus as death. When a man, having passed through a life and death experience, is ultimately saved from it, the common speech of all peoples expresses the idea by the idiomatic expression – ‘he was given a new life’, and no people to whatever country they may belong would demur at expressing that idea in this way.

After all that has been stated, it should be kept in mind that in the gospel of Barnabas, which must be available in the British Museum, it is stated that Jesus was not crucified, not did he die on the Cross. Now we can very well say that though this book is not included in the gospels and has been rejected summarily, yet there is no doubt that it is an ancient book, and it belongs to the period in which the other gospels were written. Is it not open to us to regard this ancient book as a book of history of ancient times and to make use of it as a book of history? Does it not follow from this book that at least at the time when the event of the Cross took place, people were not unanimous as to Jesus’ dying on the Cross? Again, apart from this, when in the four gospels themselves there are such metaphors as the one about a dead person, that he is not dead but asleep, it is not beyond reason to suppose that a state of swoon might be described as a state of death. I have already stated that a prophet cannot lie. Jesus compared his three days’ stay in the tomb to the three days of Jonah in the belly of the whale. This only shows that just as Jonah remained alive for three days in the belly of the whale, so did Jesus remain alive for three days in the tomb. The Jewish tombs of those days were not like the tombs of to-day; they were roomy and had an opening on one side, which was covered with a big stone. And, presently, I shall prove in due course that Jesus’ tomb which has been recently discovered in Srinagar in Kashmir is of the same type as the one in which Jesus was placed in a state of swoon."
Unquote
Thanks

 

[adrift]

Hi
Mirza Ghulam Ahmad 1835-1908, the PromisedMessiahImamMahdi adds Thanks

You have posted this before and all of it was answered. It was pointed out to you that Jesus spent forty days on earth after His resurrection and before His Ascension. It was also pointed out to you that Barnabas was a forgery

[What do we know about the “Gospel of Barnabas”?

](http://www.answering-islam.de/Main/Barnabas/index.html)

The Muslim scholar Cyril Glassé states:

As regards the “Gospel of Barnabas” itself, there is no question that it is a medieval forgery. A complete Italian manuscript exists which appears to be a translation from a Spanish original (which exists in part), written to curry favor with Muslims of the time. It contains anachronisms which can date only from the Middle Ages and not before, and shows a garbled comprehension of Islamic doctrines, calling the Prophet “the Messiah”, which Islam does not claim for him. Besides its farcical notion of sacred history, stylistically it is a mediocre parody of the Gospels, as the writings of Baha’Allah are of the Koran.

Jesus did not die on the cross

 

[Nikhil]

Paarsurrey, your sources have very little credibility at all. At least in India there is very little credibility. For starters how can you be so sure that whatever Mirza Ghulam Ahmad said/wrote is correct. You also state that a prophet cannot lie. But before that you have to prove that the person is in fact a prophet.

I look forward to seeing your prove that Jesus died in Kashmir.

 

[paarsurrey]

Paarsurrey, your sources have very little credibility at all. At least in India there is very little credibility. For starters how can you be so sure that whatever Mirza Ghulam Ahmad said/wrote is correct. You also state that a prophet cannot lie. But before that you have to prove that the person is in fact a prophet.
I look forward to seeing your prove that Jesus died in Kashmir.

Hi
I don’t mind the differences, that is but natural. You seem to be a Catholic; you don’t have to convert, but I have to form my own opinion.
Thanks

 

[ausomm4]

I don’t know why we waste time arguing with non-believers about this. They must first change the way they behave before they change their belief. We should pray for the Muslim with all love and sincerity, not argue with them. A hard line muslim will never admit defeat. We should be there for anyone who sincerely wishes dialogue or is interested legitimately in our faith. However, we should not delude ourselves into thinking that they wish to discuss things with us as though they truly value what we have to say. Islam ‘in general’ has no desire for dialogue, at least not two way dialogue. I’ve seen nothing that impresses me about Islam. I’ve just listened to many muslim imams and religious leaders. They perversely make hate somehow equal to love of God. Where is the Muslim Mother Theresa? Where are their missions? How does Islam make the world better? God is all perfect and all Holy to be sure; and I believe sin and trangression sicken me every bit as much as my muslim couterpart. But the God I believe in since the begining of time has never forcibly spirit raped anyone. Not in the Garden of Eden and not now. If people reject him then they’ll have HELL to pay. Islam forces everyone to adhere to what they believe are God’s laws. Thats rape. God’s not a rapist. Anything forced is fake; ergo if Islam sharia law forces people to comply then it is FAKE. Furthermore I have a copy of the Quran that I’ve read. (Because my relgion allows me to.) It is so disjointed and random in its presentation. It’s all over the place. Of course I guess thats cause I didn’t read it in the original language there is no comparison with that book and our HOLY Scriptures. The quran boggles the mind and the Bible cuts to the quick of the Spirit, because it is truth. I will honestly pray for you my muslim brothers and sisters, but until Islam can show its greatness by putting down its sword, then I guess I’ll keep mine sharpened for when the wahabist religious rape police try to invade my home and help me to ‘submit’ to their distortions. I wish we could work with our muslim neighbors to confront the sins’ of society by being examples of proper living, but as long as you blow stuff up every five seconds you are not helping. you are part of the problem. peace.

 

[Nikhil]

Hi
I don’t mind the differences, that is but natural. You seem to be a Catholic; you don’t have to convert, but I have to form my own opinion.
Thanks

paarsurrey I am glad to note that you have changed your stand to that of an opinion now. Thanks for making that consideration. If you would like to buy into Mirza Ghulam Ahmad’s opinion that Jesus died in Kashmir then that’s your belief and is the essence of what is called faith. I can definitely give you that much room.

To claim as fact that Jesus Died in Kashmir based on writings of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad is at this point still very much fiction.

 

[paarsurrey]

Hi
Mirza Ghulam Ahmad 1835-1908, the PromisedMessiahImamMahdi adds following argument in his book “Jesus in India” alislam.org/library/books/jesus-in-india/index.html
“In short, the verse I have just quoted shows that Jesus after coming out of the tomb went to Galilee. The gospel of St. Mark says that after coming out of the tomb he was seen going on the road to Galilee, and ultimately he met the eleven disciples when they were at their meal; he showed them his hands and feet which were wounded and they thought that he was perhaps a spirit. Then he said to them:
Behold my hands and my feet, that it is myself; handle me and see, for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have
He took from them boiled fish and a piece of honeycomb and ate them in their presence.
These verses show that it is certain that Jesus never went to heaven; rather, coming out of the tomb, he went to Galilee; – like an ordinary man, in normal clothes, with a human body. If he had been resurrected after death, how was it that this body of spirit could still have borne the wounds inflicted upon him on the Cross? What need had he to eat? And if he required food then, he must be in need of food even now.
Readers should not be under any misconception: the Cross of the Jews was not like the hangman’s noose of to-day from which deliverance alive is nearly impossible, for the Cross of those days had no rope to be put round the neck of the victim, nor was he subjected to a fall from a wooden plank and allowed to keep hanging; rather, he was just put on the Cross, and his hands and feet were nailed to it; and it was quite possible that if, after crucifying a person and driving nails into him, it was decided – in a day or two – to forgive him and spare his life, he was taken down alive before his bones had been broken, the punishment already undergone being deemed sufficient for him. If it was decided to kill him, he was kept on the Cross at least for three days; water or bread was not allowed to come near him, and he was left in this condition in the sun for three or more days, when his bones were broken and ultimately as a result of this torture he died. But the grace of Almighty God rescued Jesus from this torture which would have ended his life. Reading the gospel with care will show that Jesus (on whom be peace) did not remain on the Cross for three days; he did not have to suffer hunger or thirst for three days; nor were his bones broken. On the other hand, he remained on the Cross only for two hours, and the grace and mercy of God managed to bring about the crucifixion in the latter part of the day, which was a Friday, only a little time before sunset, the next day being the Sabbath, the feast Fasah of the Jews. According to Jewish custom it was unlawful and a punishable crime to let anyone remain on the Cross on the Sabbath day, or during the night previous to it; Jews, like Muslims, observed the lunar calendar, sunset being regarded as beginning the day. So, on the one hand, there was this circumstance which arose out of earthly causes, and, on the other, Almighty God brought into existence heavenly circumstances, namely, that when it was the sixth hour, there was a severe dust-storm which darkened the earth for three hours. This sixth hour was after twelve o’clock, i.e., close to the evening. Now, the Jews were afraid in this utter darkness, lest the night of the Sabbath should overtake them, and lest, having violated the sanctity of the Sabbath, they should deserve to be punished. Therefore, in all haste they took Jesus and the two thieves off their Crosses.”
Unquote
Thanks

 

[adrift]

On the other hand, he remained on the Cross only for two hours, . According to Jewish custom it was unlawful and a punishable crime to let anyone remain on the Cross on the Sabbath day, or during the night previous to it; "
Unquote
Thanks

This like all the other false postings you make have been answered. Jesus was on the cross not for two but for six hours. When He resurrected His body was glorified. He did not need food but only took food to show the scared apostles that He had resurrected and wasn’t a ghost.

The Jews were under the Romans and they could have cared less about what Jewish custom was unlawful. Like I have stated before
The Romans were experts and good at the form of execution they invented. Jesus would not have escaped alive. Your scenario defies reason.

 

[paarsurrey]

When He resurrected His body was glorified. He did not need food but only took food to show the scared apostles that He had resurrected and wasn’t a ghost.

Hi
The spirits neither have any scars on the body nor do these eat anything. If Jesus ate and drank something that is a clear and simple proof that Jesus did not die on Cross, he was delivered from the Cross in near-dead position, he was laid in the tomb ( not a grave, that speaks volumes) in near-dead position , he was treated there, when he gained strenght enough to go to Galilee he appeared before the disciples who were shocked to see him alive, that is why he asked them to put his fingers in his scars and see for themselves that he was the same Jesus whose prayers had been heard and GodAllahYHWH saved his life and helped him as He always helps his ProphetsMessengers.
Thanks

The Word of GodAllahYHWH is and had been the first/authentic and primary source of human knowledge whether revealed on Moses/Jesus/Muhammad or Mirza Ghulam Ahmad; it is of itself complete and without doubt and requires no external witnessing.
The Catholics, to me, don’t believe Jesus (and the Word of GodAllahYHWH revealed on Jesus); they believe blindly, excuse me, whatever creed the Catholic Clergy have approved of for them.

 

[adrift]

Jesus wasn’t spirit.

He resurrected that means He had His body but it was a Glorified body. As I said, that is why he ate to prove He WASN’T a spirit but had truly resurrected.

 

[water]

Hi
The spirits neither have any scars on the body nor do these eat anything. If Jesus ate and drank something that is a clear and simple proof that Jesus did not die on Cross, he was delivered from the Cross in near-dead position, he was laid in the tomb ( not a grave, that speaks volumes) in near-dead position , he was treated there, when he gained strenght enough to go to Galilee he appeared before the disciples who were shocked to see him alive, that is why he asked them to put his fingers in his scars and see for themselves that he was the same Jesus whose prayers had been heard and GodAllahYHWH saved his life and helped him as He always helps his ProphetsMessengers.
Thanks

The Word of GodAllahYHWH is and had been the first/authentic and primary source of human knowledge whether revealed on Moses/Jesus/Muhammad or Mirza Ghulam Ahmad; it is of itself complete and without doubt and requires no external witnessing.
The Catholics, to me, don’t believe Jesus (and the Word of GodAllahYHWH revealed on Jesus); they believe blindly, excuse me, whatever creed the Catholic Clergy have approved of for them.

You have problem when you mix all sort of religions into one. It gets messed up.

 

[jimmy85]

btw paarsurrey, on the book you mentioned, the buddhist version says that they believe that Jesus could have been in India before his public life.
They dont claim that Jesus went to die over there.
anyway the whole book is baseless.

 

[Charlie_Zeaiter]

… The Catholics, to me, don’t believe Jesus (and the Word of GodAllahYHWH revealed on Jesus); they believe blindly, excuse me, whatever creed the Catholic Clergy have approved of for them.

No, it is you that believes blindly.

That’s enough, paarsurrey; Stop it.

 

[REESE_HOWELL]

God is creator of universe allah means many moon gods and Cain was first person to dream of him and he killed his own brother second we could be standing by ruins of temple king Solamon built and you would deny that it exiseted third your mahadi coming with his prophet is the anti-christ with his false prophet who tells lies just like you

 

[paarsurrey]

You have problem when you mix all sort of religions into one. It gets messed up.

Hi
There is no problem when looking deep into all the religions, one finds that:

1. In the ancient times, when different lands were locked up as the means of communications were not developed, so the people got a misconception that GodAllahYHWH has only talked to their local Prophet only; why should God be racial, when he has created all the human beings, why should he not love all, why should he not talk to every nation, why should he not give his guidance to every nation.
2. Now that the world has transformed into a global village, the things are easy to understand, different streams have joined a big river, or different rivers have merged into one ocean, so the things are not mixed up to create confusion, rather having a common phenomenon the things could be interpreted more clearly, man because of knowledge is easy now to come out of superstition if they listen to reason, rationality and logic common to everybody, having the same psyche.
3. The humanity is the same everywhere, the same problem face everybody in every part of the world ,so should be the solutions.
   May GodAllahYHWH bless you!
   Thanks

 

[REESE_HOWELL]

Hi
Please don’t be so harsh to Tyranny, let him be a free soul. It is a good thing in my Christians friends that they don’t hate a person, rather they love him, they only hate the beliefs of a person, with reasons, rationality and logical arguments . Please be a good Christian and wellcome him/her here, if possible.
Thanks

One should find truth in the NTBible, but one should not compromise on truth, if it is not found there.

you ask what your religion does not grant

 

[REESE_HOWELL]

Hi
There is no problem when looking deep into all the religions, one finds that:

1. In the ancient times, when different lands were locked up as the means of communications were not developed, so the people got a misconception that GodAllahYHWH has only talked to their local Prophet only; why should God be racial, when he has created all the human beings, why should he not love all, why should he not talk to every nation, why should he not give his guidance to every nation.
2. Now that the world has transformed into a global village, the things are easy to understand, different streams have joined a big river, or different rivers have merged into one ocean, so the things are not mixed up to create confusion, rather having a common phenomenon the things could be interpreted more clearly, man because of knowledge is easy now to come out of superstition if they listen to reason, rationality and logic common to everybody, having the same psyche.
3. The humanity is the same everywhere, the same problem face everybody in every part of the world ,so should be the solutions.
   May GodAllahYHWH bless you!
   Thanks

here you go mixing God and allah togather God yahweh is creator of universe allah is many moon gods satan likes to mix lies with truth Jesus is truth

 

[Ilocia]

here you go mixing God and allah togather God yahweh is creator of universe allah is many moon gods satan likes to mix lies with truth Jesus is truth

allah = hubal. moon gods. no wonder they are using crescent moon and star on their mosque tower

 

[exoflare]

allah = hubal. moon gods. no wonder they are using crescent moon and star on their mosque tower

Sometimes I think that too, but a lot of times they claim that started purely as a turkish “political” symbol. I’m not sure how much I buy that (knowing the general trustworthiness of Muslim apologists), but still is there any indication that the moon/star symbol has been around pretty much since the origin of Islam?