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Charlie_Zeaiter
Guest
Maybe in these modern days and in English… but it wasn’t like that when scriptures were written. Context is everything.
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planten
Guest
**Jesus being on the cross and crying “Eli, Eli…” I am with you. He calling his mother “O Woman” I am with you. But is it respectable way of calling the mother, I do not agree.
You people try to take shelter behind the old mode of talking and the present day language style. We cannot care about that. That is only an excuse to get rid of the accusation. Please admit something. You are not an expert of the old languages.
Jesus had a god to whom he used to pray. He used to call his God for help. According to you, he being a god himself even died. How could a God die, we cannot understand. There are many problems. But you will say that in the very old times, the god could die too. Please try to agree to somethings. Thanks.**
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Sam_777
Guest
FYI:
Jesus was quoting from (Psalm 22:1-18) in the OT:
"My God, my God, why have you forsaken me? Why are you so far from saving me, so far from the words of my groaning? O my God, I cry out by day, but you do not answer, by night, and am not silent. Yet you are enthroned as the Holy One; you are the praise of Israel. In you our fathers put their trust; they trusted and you delivered them. They cried to you and were saved; in you they trusted and were not disappointed. But I am a worm and not a man, scorned by men and despised by the people.All who see me mock me; they hurl insults, shaking their heads: “He trusts in the LORD; let the LORD rescue him. Let him deliver him, since he delights in him.” Yet you brought me out of the womb; you made me trust in you even at my mother’s breast. From birth I was cast upon you; from my mother’s womb you have been my God.Do not be far from me, for trouble is near and there is no one to help.Many bulls surround me; strong bulls of Bashan encircle me.Roaring lions tearing their prey open their mouths wide against me. I am poured out like water, and all my bones are out of joint. My heart has turned to wax; it has melted away within me. My strength is dried up like a potsherd, and my tongue sticks to the roof of my mouth; you lay me ** in the dust of death. Dogs have surrounded me; a band of evil men has encircled me, they have pierced [c] my hands and my feet. I can count all my bones; people stare and gloat over me.They divide my garments among them and cast lots for my clothing.**"
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Angelos
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This is NOT a prophecy, but a simple and vague prediction that every intelligent man can work out through common sense.
Double happiness? Is there a reference to this double happiness in Surah 30 of your scripture?? Please provide citation.
The Koran has the word RUM, which pertains to Eastern Romans (Byzantine). Byzantine Empire was the ancestor of modern Greeks. Even today the Greek Orthodox Church is named RUM Orthodox in Muslim countries. Check the following site about the Greek Orthodox Patriarchate to see how the word RUM denotes Greeks in association with Byzantine:
wowturkey.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=751369
Now everyone can see who should be more careful and attend school without blaming others for ignorance first.
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planten
Guest
** Please read the chapter 30 of Quran from beginning as follows:
In the name of Allah, the Gracious, the Merciful.
[30:1] Alif, Lam, Mim.
[30:2] The Romans have been defeated
[30:3] In the land nearby, and they, after their defeat, will be victorious
[30:4] In a few years - Allah’s is the dominion before and after that - and on that day the believers will rejoice
[30:5] In Allah’s help. He helps whom He pleases; and He is the Mighty, the Merciful.
[30:6] Allah has made this promise. Allah breaks not His promise, but most men know not.
[30:7] They know only the outer part of the life of this world, and of the Hereafter they are utterly unmindful.
[30:8] Do they not reflect within themselves that Allah has not created the heavens and the earth and all that is between the two but in accordance with the requirements of wisdom and for a fixed term? But many among men believe not in the meeting with their Lord.
[30:9] Have they not travelled in the earth so that they might see how evil was the end of those who were before them? They were stronger than these in power, and they tilled the soil and populated it more and better than these have populated it. And their Messengers came to them with manifest Signs. And Allah would not wrong them, but they wronged their own souls. **
The Romans have been defeated in the nearby land. But they will be victorious in a few years… The believers will rejoice. That means the believers in Jesus and the believers in Muhammad, i.e. the christians as well as Muslims will rejoice (celebrate victory)=verse 4.
Let it be a single rejoicing.if not double. But the Quran is giving the news of the victory of the Romans over the Persians. It is not an easy prediction. Also it is written that it is the promise of Allah. So what else do you need please?
The verses are telling about the Allah’s help too and the promise of Allah. I hope it is easy to understand.
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Angelos
Guest
It IS an easy prediction if the power of the Byzantine Empire is taken into consideration. Nothing miraculous there. Greeks were more likely to be victorious sooner or later.
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Charlie_Zeaiter
Guest
It is when you consider it in the context of Adam and Eve. Eve was called Woman. Mary is being portrayed as the New Eve. Like the way the original gave Adam the fruit that caused him to sin, the new Eve gives us the fruit of her womb [Jesus] who saves us from sin.
How silly of us to read things in the context and culture of the time they were written.
Even if you could understand how God could die, you still wouldn’t get it, because you don’t believe Jesus died on the cross.
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Charlie_Zeaiter
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What does “Alif, Lam, Mim” mean?
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Gabriel_of_12
Guest
So Islam dishonors Jesus as a religion or is this one muslim’s opinion? Tell me HIsalone; how can you judge one without knowing the one you pass judgement on? Why do you deny what Jesus taught, if you dont know what he taught?
Peace
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Eden
Guest
It’s Muslim theology to deny that Jesus Christ is God. So, it’s not just one Muslim’s opinion. They think a man named Issa is a less important prophet than Muhammad and they try to fool Christians into believing “Issa” is one in the same with our Jesus Christ.
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Sam_777
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Muslims are not trying to fool anyone with that, indeed its the Quran who confirms that “Jesus” in Christianity equals “Isaa” in Islam.
The problem is with Satan who fooled Muhammed and the Muslims.
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planten
Guest
** If they were powerful then why they were defeated by the persians. This prophecy was announced when they (The Romans) were defeated. The time for their victory was set for 3 to 9 years. That they will come back with victory.It IS an easy prediction if the power of the Byzantine Empire is taken into consideration. Nothing miraculous there. Greeks were more likely to be victorious sooner or later.
It is un-necessary to deny every truth. Please read every word of that chapter posted above. It is telling that it is a promise from Allah. The news has been given with some certainity. But you are passing it off as a Gupp Shupp (idle talk).**
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planten
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**That is not correct. We Muslims believe that:
- Muhamamd is a man = Jesus is also a man.
- Muhammad is a son of man = Jesus is also a son of a man.
- Muhammad is a prophet of God = Jesus is also a prophet of God.
- Muhammad is a messenger of God. = Jesus is also a messenger of God.
- Muhammad is not a God = Jesus is not a God.
- Muhammad had a God = Jesus also had a God.
- Muhammad prayed to his God = Jesus also prayed to his God.
- Muhammad suffered much during his struggle against opponents = Jesus also suffered much in his struggle.
- Muhammad died a natural death = Jesus also died a natural death.
- Muhammad taught a message of repentence = Jesus also taught the message of repentence to his people.
- Muhammad was a man of God = Jesus was a man of God.
We Muslims do not disrespect Jesus the way the christian disrespect Muhammad. We believe that all messengers were equal and alike, no difference at all. The only problem is that christians want that Jesus should be considered a God and Muhammad should be considered a mad man. How unfair !!
WE do not consider Jesus as a God. The Jews who are much senior to the christians also do not believe that Jesus was any God. They rather believe that Jesus was a false claimant to everything. So a false man. We Muslims do not say that.
There is no one besides the muslims who say something good about Jesus. If any religion (except the church itself) says then please name it.**
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Sam_777
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Tell us Gabriel, what do you think?, what do you understand from both hadiths? how come the one who:
*- Born through the spirit of God The Most High.
- Whom God The Most High calling him “his Son”.
- Who made a lot of miracles.
- Who remained a virgin throughout his mission.
- Who was a giver of life.
- Who preached faith.
- Who used the sword of the Spirit.
- Who said believe and live.
- Who achieved a holy victory.*
*- Born from an earthy man.
- Allah calling him my slave.
- Who couldn’t perform any miracle.
- Who allowed polygamy of 4 wives, yet he took for himself 9.
- Who was a life taker.
- Who practised violence.
- Who used an earthy metal sword.
- Who said convert or die.
- Who declared a holy war.*
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Charlie_Zeaiter
Guest
- but if only Islam did drop Jesus out of it’s sight. It would be better if Islam kept silent about Jesus as opposed to denying history and claiming He wasn’t crucified.
I understand your frustration. That’s probably why the Catholic Church doesn’t say one bad word about Muhammad in the Catechism. In fact, I don’t think there is one official and authoritive Catholic Church document which speaks lowly of Muhammad. If there is, I apologize.
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ralphinal
Guest
PLanten,
you said that both Jesus and Muhammed were sons of men. Who was Jesus’s father? I thought Muslims beleived in the virgin birth.
you said that both Jesus and Muhammed were sons of men. Who was Jesus’s father? I thought Muslims beleived in the virgin birth.
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Sam_777
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Angelos
Guest
There is nothing certain about that so-called prophecy in Surah 30! The original language of the Koran does not give a definite time for the future victory of the Greek (Byzantine) army. Some of the translations I read have the time adverbial “within ten years” instead of “from 3 to 9 years”. What the verse actually predicts is that “the Byzantine army is going to be victorius sooner or later”.
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wina
Guest
Brother Planten,
Are you okay !, that not even in Quran nor hadith!.
Sorry i just can’t stand how funny it is…
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planten
Guest
We believe in the Quran. You do not believe in the Quran. Bible says Jesus was a son of a man. I want to know if you believe that he was the son of a man. It is written in the bible many times. Do you believe that he was son of a man.
If so then there is no problem. Muhammad was a son of man and so was Jesus. You should not be worried about the Quran please.
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