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planten
Guest
From Sam_777:
Re: Jesus downgraded by Muhammed from Lord to least prophet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by planten
We Muslims believe that:
2. Muhammad is a son of man = Jesus is also a son of a man.
2. Muhammad is a son of man (i.e. according to Hadith)= Jesus is also a son of a man. (according to bible)
Re: Jesus downgraded by Muhammed from Lord to least prophet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by planten
We Muslims believe that:
2. Muhammad is a son of man = Jesus is also a son of a man.
- Muhammad died a natural death = Jesus also died a natural death.
** What do you know about the Quran and the Hadith?
2. Muhammad is a son of man (i.e. according to Hadith)= Jesus is also a son of a man. (according to bible)
- Muhammad died a natural death (according to Hadith)= Jesus also died a natural death. (According to Quran, V.3:55)**
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morning_star777
Guest
Its not the 1st time but our brother planten told before many time that jesus died but not on cross!!
Brother Planten,
Are you okay !, that not even in Quran nor hadith!.
.actually sometime our brother planten edit Quran&hadith in his own way.but i cant blame him.islamic scripture should be edited if it(islamic scriptures)want to be a perfect scripture
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morning_star777
Guest
brother planten you gave a reference from Quran that jesus died?but ur Quran also said that allah raised jesus alive to heaven.so how is it possible that jesus died and didn’t die?very contradictory!
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Jefferson7
Guest
Someone on another forum said that either Jesus is God like he said or he is a liar. There is nothing to debate here. If Muhammed says he is a lesser profit then he is saying that Jesus is not God and therefore a liar. Then my question to you is how could he be a liar and still be a prophet? It is impossible. God can’t be reduced but he can be suppressed by the human mind. Muhammed is attempting to suppress God and make himself equal to God when he himself says he is a prophet.
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inJESUS
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ralphinal
Guest
Then who was his father? If Jesus was a son of a man, he had a father and a mother. Surely the Quran lists it
Son of Man as a title that Jesus used shows him as messiah, not human.
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Christian1983
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Muslims view Jesus as a prophet and thus a man of truth. Muslims also believe that Jesus is not the Son of God. That is a subject that Muslims do not like to touch.
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Postmodern
Guest
I don’t think that is true.
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Charlie_Zeaiter
Guest
Correct.
Yes
So far, so good. Both Muhammand and Jesus (and you and me) have human nature.
Oh, if only the Qur’an would stop there. But it doesn’t. It goes on to specifically deny the second divine nature of Christ (see Qur’an 5:17) - and that is fundamental to the Christian faith. So, as you can see, we do have reason to be worried about the Qur’an.
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Steven_John
Guest
Hi (sam)
following your invitation i have read it as best i can. You will probably need to help me if i have misunderstanding as i am not good with words and study.
I don’t have much time for hadiths, if God gave a quran of all arabic speaking men need to know. Why do they need hadiths?
To my understanding there are 12 books of them with 6 being called authentic. But they are ranked as to their authenticity.
I recently wrote a paper and gave it to our Imam giving stern warning on guiding brothers with hadiths he cant explain or substantiate with the quran. He has not led Friday prayer since. God willing he will next Friday.
For the purpose of your post i will try to speak as if this narration of Muhammed (pbuh) written 100 years later is true narration.
Where are the other prophets (pbwt)?
God could place any being any where at any time.
He may have placed them in relation to the personal faith journey of Muhammed (pbuh).
Could we view the placement opposite to what you assert with Adam being first being created only by God and Jesus (pbwh) second being created at Gods command but born of woman?
This would be exulting Jesus (pbwh).
In the hadith it would make sense that God would judge us by His messenger we profess to follow. The Hadith is to people from Islamic religion.
If Jews were asked “did you sell all you have and give the money to the poor?
did you take no pure or spare cloths and spread the Gospel?”
it would not make sense. That is what Jesus (pbwh) calls his followers to do so we will be judged and rewarded accordingly.
It trys to divide us by having us judge each other by religion rather than by the fruits of each individual. Jesus (pbwh) treated each as individual and called us out to do same.
May God forgive me for any errors and let not those who aspire to submit to Him be led astray.
following your invitation i have read it as best i can. You will probably need to help me if i have misunderstanding as i am not good with words and study.
I don’t have much time for hadiths, if God gave a quran of all arabic speaking men need to know. Why do they need hadiths?
To my understanding there are 12 books of them with 6 being called authentic. But they are ranked as to their authenticity.
I recently wrote a paper and gave it to our Imam giving stern warning on guiding brothers with hadiths he cant explain or substantiate with the quran. He has not led Friday prayer since. God willing he will next Friday.
For the purpose of your post i will try to speak as if this narration of Muhammed (pbuh) written 100 years later is true narration.
How do you assert that these positions a are fixed?
Where are the other prophets (pbwt)?
God could place any being any where at any time.
He may have placed them in relation to the personal faith journey of Muhammed (pbuh).
Could we view the placement opposite to what you assert with Adam being first being created only by God and Jesus (pbwh) second being created at Gods command but born of woman?
This would be exulting Jesus (pbwh).
Mans true position is above angels.
I thought i had read in the Quran Jesus (pbwh) was of the pure spirit, created by Gods command, Muhammed (pbuh) was a sinner. If this was true and the Quran is the basis of the Islamic religion that there is not neglect or downgrade.
In the hadith it would make sense that God would judge us by His messenger we profess to follow. The Hadith is to people from Islamic religion.
If Jews were asked “did you sell all you have and give the money to the poor?
did you take no pure or spare cloths and spread the Gospel?”
it would not make sense. That is what Jesus (pbwh) calls his followers to do so we will be judged and rewarded accordingly.
Indeed the darkness does try to deceive believers much so in religion communities.
It trys to divide us by having us judge each other by religion rather than by the fruits of each individual. Jesus (pbwh) treated each as individual and called us out to do same.
May God forgive me for any errors and let not those who aspire to submit to Him be led astray.
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Sam_777
Guest
Hadithes are the second half of Islam, if we don’t consider hadithes, then that means we wouldn’t know how many times to pray and how to pray, what to say in each prayer or how to perform Haj, if someone heard you here in Saudi Arabia saying such thing, they will consider you blaspheming.
That is correct.
Read this:
Step #1: Gabriel asked the gate of heaven to be opened.
Step #2: He was asked who he was by (Someone).
Step #3: Gabriel replied that he was Gabriel.
Step #4: (Someone) asking Gabriel Who is with him?
Step #5: Gabriel said: Muhammad.
Step #7: (Someone) asked: Has he been sent for?
Step #8: Gabriel replied: He has indeed been sent for.
Step #9: The door of the heaven then opened .
Don’t know, ask Muhammed.
Correct.
Not relevant.
If that is the case, then John the Baptist shouldn’t be with Jesus.
In Christianity yes, but in Islam no.
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Sam_777
Guest
“Christian1983” is correct in his assumption, “Postmodern” why you don’t think that’s true?
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Sam_777
Guest
We Muslims believe that the Gospel is corrupted, not by Jesus himself, but by his decibels after him, we assume that Jesus never called himself God per this verse in (Quran 05:116).
But if you read that verse carefully, you would find that Allah is telling Jesus did you tell the people to worship you and your mother as gods.
But I see no mentioning of any reference in the Bible that support the idea that Christians are worshipping Mary, I wonder from where Muhammed got that idea!
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Sam_777
Guest
For Jesus, not literally, you know from Quran that he had no biological father :banghead:, “Son of Man” is a a Messianic title and a prophecy in (Daniel 7:13-14).
However in Arabic its translated “Ibn Aleensan” NOT “Ibn Alrajul” means “Son of the human being” (which could be male & female, so I assume the female part from Virgin Mary), the same concept is adapted in NCV Bible translation, where it reads:
“*In my vision at night I saw in front of me someone who looked like a human being *coming on the clouds in the sky. He came near God, who has been alive forever, and he was led to God.”
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For Jesus, Islamic clerics couldn’t agree for the meaning of that verse, even some of them said it means the three days Jesus actually died per this tafseer.
For Muhammed, No not natural death, lots of Islamic clerics blaming the Jews for the death of Muhammed, Jews poisoned Muhammed in Khaibar per this hadith:
Sahih Bukhari, Volume 7, Book 71, Number 669:
“When Khaibar was conquered, Allah’s Apostle was presented with a poisoned (roasted) sheep. Allah’s Apostle said, “Collect for me all the Jews present in this area.” (When they were gathered) Allah’s Apostle said to them, “I am going to ask you about something; will you tell me the truth?” They replied, “Yes, O Abal-Qasim!” Allah’s Apostle said to them, “Who is your father?” They said, “Our father is so-and-so.” Allah’s Apostle said, “You have told a lie. for your father is so-and-so,” They said, “No doubt, you have said the truth and done the correct thing.” He again said to them, “If I ask you about something; will you tell me the truth?” They replied, “Yes, O Abal-Qasim! And if we should tell a lie you will know it as you have known it regarding our father,” Allah’s Apostle then asked, “Who are the people of the (Hell) Fire?” They replied, “We will remain in the (Hell) Fire for a while and then you (Muslims) will replace us in it” Allah’s Apostle said to them. ''You will abide in it with ignominy. By Allah, we shall never replace you in it at all." Then he asked them again, “If I ask you something, will you tell me the truth?” They replied, “Yes.” He asked. “Have you put the poison in this roasted sheep?” They replied, “Yes,” He asked, “What made you do that?” They replied, "We intended to learnif you were a liar in which case we would be relieved from you, and if you were a prophet then it would not harm you.”
(E) (A) .
And that prophecy fulfilled here:
**Sahih Bukhari, Volume 5, Book 59, Number 713: **
“Narrated 'Aisha: The Prophet in his ailment in which he died, used to say, "O 'Aisha! I still feel the pain caused by the food I ate at Khaibar, and at this time, I feel as if my aorta is being cut from that poison.”
(E) (A).
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planten
Guest
**Hadith has importance but not above the Quran. We do not learn to pray or Hajj from hadith. We learnt it from the practice (Sunnat) of the Holy prophet. The books of Hadith were written after 200 years after the death of prophet Muhammad.
Do you think that the Muslims did not pray or do Hajj for 200 years, until the Hadith books were written. The books of Hadith only support and serve the Quran and Sunnah. They do not take charge of the Quran and Sunnah. That is the right principle amongst Muslims.**
**Angels are not superior to men. Even you are superior to angels. That is Islam. Mankind (Humans) are the best creation of God. Angels are also the creation of God. So we can understand that they are not superior to mankind.
Even though angels are completely obedient and good servants of God, they are not put into any trial as men are. So they are not superior.**
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planten
Guest
Yes, that is a good point but christians do not see it. Muslim believe that Jesus was a prophet of God. That means he was the true and right man of God. Surely, not a bad person and not a liar.
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morning_star777
Guest
ya muslims believe that jesus was a prophet of God but a forth class prophet who even can’t give law like moses gave(came from God).what an honor to jesus!what a joke!why don’t you say that our holy Lord Jesus is just a "clown of circus"in islam?remember,its not honor but great dishonor to jesus.because jesus is our Lord&God,not a “clown of circus”.
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Jefferson7
Guest
How could then Muhammed’s word be true if what he speaks is untruth. Jesus never said to worship my mother. That is just one falsehood from the Quran.But if you read that verse carefully, you would find that Allah is telling Jesus did you tell the people to worship you and your mother as gods.
But I see no mentioning of any reference in the Bible that support the idea that Christians are worshipping Mary, I wonder from where Muhammed got that idea!
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Gabriel_of_12
Guest
So does the hadith state these belief’s, and who do they apply them to, because neither one of them is Jesus? because the first column does not state correctly who Jesus is. According to Christian belief Jesus is the “Word of God” “made flesh”. So who is this person being described in the first column?
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