Jesus gives us His Own Mother as Mediatrix of all Graces

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Right. Mary’s Spouse is the Holy Spirit, as Popes like Pius XII and John Paul II tell us explicitly. She is the Mother of the Son of God. The Holy Spirit distributes grace through His spouse, our Blessed Mother. As St. Maximilian tells us, the Holy Spirit does nothing without Mary. He always works through her.

Here is Pope Leo XIII in one of his many encyclicals about the Rosary, the Encyclical Iucunda Semper:

“5. If in all this series of Mysteries, Venerable Brethren, are developed the counsels of God in regard to us - “counsels of wisdom and of tenderness” (St. Bernard) - not less apparent is the greatness of the benefits for which we are debtors to the Virgin Mother. No man can meditate upon these without feeling a new awakening in his heart of confidence that he will certainly obtain through Mary the fulness of the mercies of God. And to this end vocal prayer chimes well with the Mysteries. First, as is meet and right, comes the Lord’s Prayer, addressed to Our Father in Heaven: and having, with the elect petitions dictated by Our Divine Master, called upon the Father, from the throne of His Majesty we turn our prayerful voices to Mary. Thus is confirmed that law of merciful meditation of which We have spoken, and which St. Bernardine of Siena thus expresses: “Every grace granted to man has three degrees in order; for by God it is communicated to Christ, from Christ it passes to the Virgin, and from the Virgin it descends to us.” And we, by the very form of the Rosary, do linger longest, and, as it were, by preference upon the last and lowest of these steps, repeating by decades the Angelic Salutation, so that with greater confidence we may thence attain to the higher degrees-that is, may rise, by means of Christ, to the Divine Father. For if thus we again and again greet Mary, it is precisely that our failing and defective prayers may be strengthened with the necessary confidence; as though we pledged her to pray for us, and as it were in our name, to God.”
http://w2.vatican.va/content/leo-xi...enc_08091894_iucunda-semper-expectatione.html
 
Hi Kristaok, Scripture says we should hold fast to the traditions, whether given orally or by letter (2 Thess 2:15, 2 Tim 2:2). The Bible and the Church do not teach the Sola Scriptura or private interpretation of Scripture.

Having said that, Luke 1 says that Mary will conceive Jesus Christ in her womb by the Holy Spirit. It says tthe “the Holy Spirit will come upon you and the power of the Most High will overshadow you”. A learned friend of mine says that in the Hebrew idiom—“overshadow” or “lay one’s cloak over”-- these words refer to marital relations.

Of course we are not thinking of sex, except as an important–though vastly inferior. analogy. But we are thinking of the fact that Scripture tells us there was a consensual, spiritual union between Mary and the Holy Spirit in which they conceived Jesus Christ, fully God and fully man, in time. (We of course do not mean that Mary is God, or that she brought God into Being).

The Holy Spirit wouldn’t simply use Mary as a sort of incubator. Rather, it was fitting that the spiritual marital union between Mary and the Holy Spirit must have been something permanent and special beyond expression, since the Holy Spirit is God and Mary was created to be the worthy Mother of God.

Thus based on this and on the whole Word of God (written and oral–see above), interpreted under the guidance of those in authority in the Church, the historic Church believes that the Mother of God the Son is also the Spouse of God the Holy Spirit.

In a word, we can never fully understand the extent of Christ’s Mercy in giving us His own Spirit, and His own Mother.
 
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patricius79 said:
e are then, it will be seen, very far from attributing to the Mother of God a productive power of grace - a power which belongs to God alone. Yet, since Mary carr
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No, not true. Mary is “A” Mediator of Grace… not the only mediator. This idea has been hotly debated over the past 100 years, but the Church has repeatedly declined to define it. There have been several very poetic and beautiful writings by Popes that could easily be classified as love letters, but the Church does not teach that all graces come through Mary.

This idea is not does not require assent of belief and a good Catholic can reject the idea and face no negative consequences as a result.

Here is the Church’s last official action on the topic:
Dialogue on Coredemptrix, Mediatrix, Advocate

During the International Mariological Congress at Czestochowa, Poland, August 18-23, 1996, a meeting composed of representatives from the Marian theological faculties and the Mariological societies was held to consider the advisability of petitioning the Holy See for the dogmatic definition of the Virgin Mary as coredemptrix, mediatrix, and advocate.

The second reason the theologians gave for recommending that the Holy See not define these Marian prerogatives dealt with the ecumenical dialogue. In the encyclical Ut unum sint, Pope John Paul II outlined a path for ecumenical dialogue among all the followers of Christ. The various churches should explore the common ground that unites them together as followers of Christ. He suggests that all Christians consider the Virgin Mary as “Mother of God, icon of the Church, spiritual mother who intercedes for all the disciples of Christ and for the whole of humanity” (n. 79). The theologians wished to follow the line of dialogue as outlined in the encyclical as the way to promote unity among all the churches. Catholics, Orthodox, Anglicans and the Reformed were united at Jasna Gora to consider the role of the Virgin Mary in the mystery of Christ. This dialogue at Jasna Gora presents an example of an exchange of views which searches for common ground and which brings together and unites.
 
Hi godisgood77,

Not defining something doesn’t mean denying it’s truth. As you know, the dogma of the Assumption was not defined until 1950 (right?).

Another example: John Paul II said that Mary is the Spouse of the Holy Spirit in His Encyclical Redemptoris Mater. An Encyclical is a channel of the ordinary magisterium. The Church has not defined this. But it is a teaching of the Church.

Popes such as Pius IX, Leo XIII, Pius X, Benedict XV, all said–in Encyclicals–that every grace is given through Mary. This is also stated by doctors of the Church or saints, such as St. Bernard, St. Alphonsus Liguori, St. Maximilian Kollbe, St. Louis Marie De Montfort.
 
Like I mentioned this idea has been hotly contested over the past 100 years and the Church has decided against pursuing it multiple times due to its ambiguous nature and lack of support in revelation.

One is free to reject this idea

Cardinal Newman spoke very eloquently on the difference between devotion and doctrine… you are talking about devotion, not doctrine and devotion is a voluntary thing.

I recommend Cardinal Newman’s writings as referenced here: http://www.newmanreader.org/works/anglicans/volume2/pusey/section4.html
 
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The Church has decided not to define it as a dogma at this time, but as it has been consistently taught by instruments of the ordinary magisterium (eg encyclicals) doesn’t it still require assent by the faithful?
The Church has never defined a dogma concerning contraception yet we are bound by papal encyclicals on this matter.
 
This is the difference between devotion with a decidely poetic flavor versus doctrine.

See my other post with reference to the intellectual heavy weight Cardinal Newman’s thoughts…I recommend this passage starting with #80

“And of all passions love is the most unmanageable; nay more, I would not give much for that love which is never extravagant, which always observes the proprieties, and can move about in perfect good taste, under all emergencies. What mother, what husband or wife, what youth or maiden in love, but says a thousand foolish things, in the way of endearment, which the speaker would be sorry for strangers to hear; yet they are not on that account unwelcome to the parties to whom they are addressed. Sometimes by bad luck they are written down, sometimes they get into the newspapers; and what might be even graceful, when it was fresh from the heart, and interpreted by the voice and the countenance, presents but a melancholy exhibition when served up cold for the public eye. So it is with devotional feelings. Burning thoughts and words are as open to criticism as they are beyond it. What is abstractedly extravagant, may in particular persons be becoming and beautiful, and only fall under blame when it is found in others who imitate them. When it is formalized into meditations or exercises, it is as repulsive as love-letters in a police report. Moreover, even holy minds readily adopt and become familiar with language which they would never have originated themselves, when it proceeds from a writer who has the same objects of devotion as they have; and, if they find a stranger ridicule or reprobate supplication or praise which has come to them so recommended, they feel it as keenly as if a direct insult were offered to those to whom that homage is addressed. In the next place, what has {81} power to stir holy and refined souls is potent also with the multitude; and the religion of the multitude is ever vulgar and abnormal; it ever will be tinctured with fanaticism and superstition, while men are what they are. A people’s religion is ever a corrupt religion, in spite of the provisions of Holy Church. If she is to be Catholic, you must admit within her net fish of every kind, guests good and had, vessels of gold, vessels of earth. You may beat religion out of men, if you will, and then their excesses will take a different direction; but if you make use of religion to improve them, they will make use of religion to corrupt it. And then you will have effected that compromise of which our countrymen report so unfavourably from abroad:—a high grand faith and worship which compels their admiration, and puerile absurdities among the people which excite their contempt.”
 
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That’s my understanding. I couldn’t in good conscience disagree with the repeated teachings of the Papacy that Jesus gives everything through His Mother. Do you know if there have been any Popes or saints who’ve claimed that some graces are given without the mediation of our Mother in the order of grace?
 
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I understand your stance and I in good conscience could not submit to this new idea.
 
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Thank you for your cordiality. I was wondering what the idea that Mary is “our Mother in the order of grace” means to you. Vatican stated the following in its dogmatic constitution on the Church (Lumen Gentium):

“61. Predestined from eternity by that decree of divine providence which determined the incarnation of the Word to be the Mother of God, the Blessed Virgin was on this earth the virgin Mother of the Redeemer, and above all others and in a singular way the generous associate and humble handmaid of the Lord. She conceived, brought forth and nourished Christ. She presented Him to the Father in the temple, and was united with Him by compassion as He died on the Cross. In this singular way she cooperated by her obedience, faith, hope and burning charity in the work of the Saviour in giving back supernatural life to souls. Wherefore she is our mother in the order of grace.”
http://www.vatican.va/archive/hist_...s/vat-ii_const_19641121_lumen-gentium_en.html
 
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patricius79 said:
he cooperated by her obedience, faith, hope and burning charity in the work of the Saviour in giving back supernatural life to souls. Wherefore she is
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To me, mother in the order of grace means this: God chose Mary to bring Jesus to us. After the fall, humans were without the chance at heavenly glory. Jesus’ coming and His sacrifice re-opened the gates to Heaven… He brought his Grace back to the world… Mary played a unique and singular role in that with her fiat…So in that sense, Mary is our mother in the order of grace.

Being the mother in order of grace does not mean that all graces come through that channel… Just like a family a mother plays a role, a father plays a role, siblings…friends… relatives…teachers, etc. We would never say that everything a person is because of a mother. There are many mediators in that sense.
 
Here is a beautiful homily delivered by Pope Francis that touches on the subject

News from the Vatican - News about the Church - Vatican News - Pope at Mass: Jesus intercedes for us before the Father

Here are some key passages…

Despite our many sins, Jesus always intercedes for us before the Father. He shows Him his wounds, through which we are saved. The daily readings at Mass at Casa Santa Marta Tuesday morning gave Pope Francis the opportunity to dwell on the power of intercessory prayer. The readings spoke of Jesus taking leave of his disciples and St. Paul taking leave of the Christian community to return to Jerusalem. Emer McCarthy reports:

“The apostle John, thinking about these things and speaking of us, who are great sinners, says, ‘Do not sin, but if any of you do sin, know that we have an advocate before the Father, one who prays for us, defends us in front Father, justifies us’. I believe we should really think about this truth, about this reality: Jesus is praying for me right now. I can go on in life because I have an advocate who defends me and if I am guilty and I have so many sins … he is a good defense attorney and will speak of me to the Father”.

"He doesn’t talk: He loves. But there is one thing that Jesus does , today , I’m certain he does this. He shows his wounds to the Father and Jesus, with his wounds, prays for us as if to say to the Father: ’ But, Father, this is the price of these! Help them, protect them. They are your children whom I have saved with these’.

“We must have this faith - Pope Francis said – that right now Jesus intercedes before the Father for us, for all of us”. And when we pray we must not forget to ask Jesus to pray for us :

“‘Jesus , pray for me. Show the Father your wounds that are mine too , they are the wounds of my sin. They are the wounds of my problem at this moment in time’. Jesus the intercessor only has to show the Father his wounds. And this is happening today , at this very moment. Look at the words that Jesus said to Peter, ‘Peter, I will pray for you that your faith may not fail’”.

“We are confident that he is doing this for everyone”. “We must have faith , concluded the Pope, “in this prayer of Jesus with his wounds before the Father .”

Mary is an important part of my families prayer life - my wife, children and I pray to God with Mary all the time. Many people go to Mary for many different things. Mary intercedes constantly for those in need and she helps in that way. Jesus touches people directly… I’m convinced of that based on my personal experience - through the sacraments, through prayer to Him through His mediation with the Father. I’m not saying that grace doesn’t come to us through Mary and the saints, but I am against this forcing others to have the same devotional practices - in this case trying to force everyone to believer that all graces come through Mary. This is a relatively new idea that has no foundation in scripture, revelation or early tradition. I personally think it is an offense to Mary and our Lord.
 
I agree with you about the importance of Mary’s fiat in her role as our Mother in the order of grace. Vatican II says more than that. It says that Jesus and Mary were united in the work of our salvation, and that Mary’s role in our salvation is singular. (I agree of course that all members of the Church are mediators, but I believe this is only by graces given through Mary)

In the next passage, Vatican II states:

“62. This maternity of Mary in the order of grace began with the consent which she gave in faith at the Annunciation and which she sustained without wavering beneath the cross, and lasts until the eternal fulfillment of all the elect. Taken up to heaven she did not lay aside this salvific duty, but by her constant intercession continued to bring us the gifts of eternal salvation.(15*) By her maternal charity, she cares for the brethren of her Son, who still journey on earth surrounded by dangers and cultics, until they are led into the happiness of their true home. Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked by the Church under the titles of Advocate, Auxiliatrix, Adjutrix, and Mediatrix.(16*) This, however, is to be so understood that it neither takes away from nor adds anything to the dignity and efficaciousness of Christ the one Mediator.(17*)”
http://www.vatican.va/archive/hist_...s/vat-ii_const_19641121_lumen-gentium_en.html
 
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Here is the operative passage 'but by her constant intercession continued to bring us the gifts of eternal salvation’

This pretty clear that her intercession is his action. This does say that Mary intercedes/God offers grace/God hands to Mary/Mary distributes to human… It says that she intercedes through her prayer…a beautiful act so fitting for the Mary of the Bible and so fitting for how she lived her life.

The best place to look is the wedding Feast of Cana… Mary asked Jesus to help. He then helped by directly acting and reaching out. He didn’t create some graces that could help and pass them to Mary and have her distribute to the couple and the wedding party…

I can’t think of another example that would be more appropriate, can you?

Also, notice that LG very purposefully stops short of saying “ALL” graces…
 
I’m very glad that you and your family pray to Our Lady.

I agree that Jesus touches us directly. Mary is not like something that separates us from Christ. As Vatican II and Paul VI say, Mary’s role as Mother in the order of grace does not impede the union of the faithful with Christ, but rather shows its power.

“60. There is but one Mediator as we know from the words of the apostle, “for there is one God and one mediator of God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself a redemption for all”.(298) The maternal duty of Mary toward men in no wise obscures or diminishes this unique mediation of Christ, but rather shows His power. For all the salvific influence of the Blessed Virgin on men originates, not from some inner necessity, but from the divine pleasure. It flows forth from the superabundance of the merits of Christ, rests on His mediation, depends entirely on it and draws all its power from it. In no way does it impede, but rather does it foster the immediate union of the faithful with Christ.”
http://www.vatican.va/archive/hist_...s/vat-ii_const_19641121_lumen-gentium_en.html
 
HI godisgood,

I think we have to be careful of arguments from silence. They work for both sides. (Does Vatican II claim that some graces are given without Mary’s mediation?)

It seems like many claims are being made against our Mother’s role as Mediatrix of All Graces which may not actually be stated by any of the Councils, Popes, or doctors of the Church, or even saints.

But we do have Popes who explicitly state in Encyclicals that all graces are distributed through our Mother. And doctors and saints who strongly affirm this as well.

I don’t know if there are any saints or Popes who deny this.

Vatican II affirmed that our Lady is the cause of of salvation by the grace of Jesus Christ. The Council affirmed the singular union of Mary and Jesus in the work of our salvation, and Mary’s ongoing role as Mother in the order of grace. The Council affirmed that this role “fosters the immediate union of the faithful with Christ”.

We both agree with Vatican II that through her intercession Mary brings us the gifts of eternal salvation.

As far as Cana, I would note that it was after Mary interceded, and also after she told the servants “do whatever he tells you”, that the miracle was performed.

Vatican Ii said very much about Mary’s role as our Mother, but states this about how it doesn’t intend to give a complete doctrine about our Mother.

“54. Wherefore this Holy Synod, in expounding the doctrine on the Church, in which the divine Redeemer works salvation, intends to describe with diligence both the role of the Blessed Virgin in the mystery of the Incarnate Word and the Mystical Body, and the duties of redeemed mankind toward the Mother of God, who is mother of Christ and mother of men, particularly of the faithful. It does not, however, have it in mind to give a complete doctrine on Mary, nor does it wish to decide those questions which the work of theologians has not yet fully clarified. Those opinions therefore may be lawfully retained which are propounded in Catholic schools concerning her, who occupies a place in the Church which is the highest after Christ and yet very close to us.(4*)”
http://www.vatican.va/archive/hist_...s/vat-ii_const_19641121_lumen-gentium_en.html
 
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The fact is that Popes can be wrong in there utterances and writings… we have along history to show that. The good news is that although the Church has gotten many things wrong, sometimes really wrong, it has a history of then correcting and getting it right.

For the all graces topic… I have a long write up that I’ll post… but before doing that I’m interested in whether or not you can point to anywhere in scripture, the fathers or the early tradition that supports this idea?
 
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I think it’s important to remind everyone of the weight of the various Vatican teaching documents… in descending order of formal authority: apostolic/dogmatic constitution, encyclical letter, encyclical epistle, apostolic exhortation, apostolic letter, letter and message. Therefore, Lumen Gentium, am Apostolic Constitution would hold a higher place than the Apostolic Letters and Encyclicals typically mentioned to support claims about certain Marian privileges

At Vatican II. Lumen Gentium very purposefully stopped short of declaring Mary the Mediatrix of *All **Graces when it said *“Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked by the Church under the titles of Advocate, Auxiliatrix, Adjutrix, and Mediatrix. These, however, are to be so understood that they neither take away from nor add to the dignity and efficacy of Christ the one Mediator.”

This fact becomes quite clear when you understand how the teaching was formed at the Council. Archbiship Corrado Mingo of Monreal, Italy argued at the Council that the title “Mediatrix” should be amplified to “Mediatrix of All Graces”, yet it was omitted from Lumen Gentium. Several other Council fathers made that argument as well, still it was not included. It’s a well documented fact that it was considered a compromise between disparate groups at the Council to include the title ‘Mediatrix’, let alone ‘of All Graces’.

Also at the Council, Bishop Ancel, of Lyons, France said that title “Mediatrix” was given in the Constitution, but at the same time it was given no endorsement, thus leaving the door open for further study as the topic is still heavily debated among theologians. "Perhaps the title ‘Mediatrix might be listed with the other titles, in order to avoid the impression that it is a privileged one’ he said.

To reinforce the point that the doctrine was not fully formed in the Constitution…during the Council, Cardinal Alfrink of the Netherlands said “the title ‘Mediatrix’ should not be insisted upon, since it generates such great difficulties.” There was a clear divisions between the Council Fathers on whether or not to even include the title 'Mediatrix", let alone define it… And there is no mention of ‘Mediatrix of All Graces.’

Last point, which I brought up earlier… the last formal action on this subject was in the mid-90’s, at the request of the Holy See a commission was formed to determine whether or not a 5th Marian Dogma should be defined addressing the titles Coredemptrix, Mediatrix and Advocate. The commission unanimously decided not to define a Marian dogma on those titles.
 
To sum up, A Dogmatic Constitution holds the Church’s highest teaching authority. Lumen Gentium did not declare Mary ‘Mediatrix of All Graces.’ and purposefully omitted it from the Constitution. The Church has yet to define a teaching on Mary a ‘Mediatrix’ and the last formal action on the subject ended with a unanimous decision not to pursue a definition. No way can all Catholics be expected to submit to a belief that has no basis in scripture or revelation and, further, there is no definition on what it even means.

This piece of Marian devotion seems to fall in to the category of personal devotion. The Church may one day declare Mary to be "Mediatrix of All Graces’, but it does not teach that today… and I like many don’t see how it could ever be defined.

I hope this shows that not supporting the ‘all graces’ topic is not an argument from silence… this topic has been openly debated for the better part of 150 years and the Church has wisely decided against pursuing the topic based on well reasoned logic and the guidance of the Holy Spirit
 
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I only know what I’ve read in some Papal Encyclicals, Vatican II’s Lumen Gentium, and in books or quotations from the saints, like St. John Paul II, who repeatedly said that all graces are given through Mary.

Are there any Popes, councils, or saints who say that some graces are given without our Mother’s mediation?
 
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