Jesus had brothers??????

[wisdomseeker]

Mary lived alone? where did you get that idea from? John took Mary into his home as stated in John19:27.

[Jhn 19:27] and to the disciple, “Here is your mother.” From that time on, this disciple took her into his home.

ok. then where were the brothers of Jesus? wouldn’t be a logic thing according to your thinking that they should be the ones to take care of their mother?

 

[Good_Fella]

if that it is true. how do you explain why we are still arguing about this today?

I’m still waiting for you to explain how Protestants reject this Church doctrine on “biblical grounds” with reference to the NT verses you mentioned above. I suppose Protestants don’t consider the prophecy of Zechariah (12, 10) biblical. Keep picking and choosing what you want to believe in, rejecting Scripture whenever it fails to accommodate your preconceptions. :tiphat:

Pax vobiscum
Good Fella

 

[area52]

ok. then where were the brothers of Jesus? wouldn’t be a logic thing according to your thinking that they should be the ones to take care of their mother?

Bible verse references:
[Joh 19:27] Then saith he to the disciple, Behold thy mother! And from that hour that disciple took her unto his own home.
[Joh 19:28] After this, Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the Scripture might be fulfilled, saith, I thirst.
[Joh 19:29] Now there was set a vessel full of vinegar: and they filled a sponge with vinegar, and put it upon hyssop, and put it to his mouth.
[Joh 19:30] When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

I believed that Jesus made sure that Mary was cared for by John because of the verse19:28- “After this, Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished”. Much like your “Last Will and Testament” of which you designate who will inherit your stuff after you die.
If Jesus is satisfied who will care for His mother, I don’t need to know where His brothers/sisters are.

 

[Tim_Kirchoff]

Bible verse references:
[Joh 19:27] Then saith he to the disciple, Behold thy mother! And from that hour that disciple took her unto his own home.
[Joh 19:28] After this, Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the Scripture might be fulfilled, saith, I thirst.
[Joh 19:29] Now there was set a vessel full of vinegar: and they filled a sponge with vinegar, and put it upon hyssop, and put it to his mouth.
[Joh 19:30] When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

I believed that Jesus made sure that Mary was cared for by John because of the verse19:28- “After this, Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished”. Much like your “Last Will and Testament” of which you designate who will inherit your stuff after you die.
If Jesus is satisfied who will care for His mother, I don’t need to know where His brothers/sisters are.

But that’s missing the whole point of the question! If Mary had other children, to entrust her care to an outsider (i.e. John) would be more than slightly disrespectful to them.

 

[wisdomseeker]

Bible verse references:
[Joh 19:27] Then saith he to the disciple, Behold thy mother! And from that hour that disciple took her unto his own home.
[Joh 19:28] After this, Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the Scripture might be fulfilled, saith, I thirst.
[Joh 19:29] Now there was set a vessel full of vinegar: and they filled a sponge with vinegar, and put it upon hyssop, and put it to his mouth.
[Joh 19:30] When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

I believed that Jesus made sure that Mary was cared for by John because of the verse19:28- “After this, Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished”. Much like your “Last Will and Testament” of which you designate who will inherit your stuff after you die.
If Jesus is satisfied who will care for His mother, I don’t need to know where His brothers/sisters are.

sorry brother but you make no sense.
judge judy says::" if it makes no sense then it must not be true".
and she is jewish.

 

[Schabel]

But that’s missing the whole point of the question! If Mary had other children, to entrust her care to an outsider (i.e. John) would be more than slightly disrespectful to them.

ABSOLUTELY!
Remember, crucifiction is a death by slow suffocation and pain. Speaking is an unbelievable agony. I find it more than a bit disconcerting that protestants can believe that Our Lord would choose to expend that kind of energy, with His dying breath, to show disrespect to any alleged “brothers.”

What, didn’t He think of that until this moment? Not likely. Didn’t He know He was going to die?

 

[wisdomseeker]

But that’s missing the whole point of the question! If Mary had other children, to entrust her care to an outsider (i.e. John) would be more than slightly disrespectful to them.

yes we know Jesus left a will. that we may be one as He is one with the Father.

 

[fbl9]

no mention of brothers and sisters or even Joseph in John 2:1-12.before some one points to the word brethren and see brothers. look at acts 1:15 "…Peter stood up in the midst of the brethren…just noticed this when speaking in a group of brethren St Peter is standing up why?Acts 5:34 the person standing is in charge.

 

[guanophore]

In Luke 2:41-52 there is no mention of any other children because at this time Jesus was their oldest and only child.

There are problems with this theory. One is that no younger siblings would rise up against the eldest son, especially on who had been acting as a rabbi, to say that he had lost his mind. Such a verdict would have to come from elders, not from minors.

Also, if the eldest son was killed, it would fall to the next eldest son to care for the mother. Why would Jesus give Mary to John?

 

[guanophore]

Are you saying the church is the “source” of the scriptures?

Yes.

“… moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God” 2 Peter 1:21

In the NT, these men were Catholics.

 

[Isa_Almisry]

The problem is that the scriptures are quite clear that she did indeed have other children and are referred to throughout. Even the words used to describe brothers and sisters coupled with the various references in context support she did have children by Joseph.

The contexts support that Joseph was older.

The contexts support that the brothers were older.

The contexts support that they were not Mary’s natural children.

Jude, in his episitle, referes to himself as the servant of Jesus but the brother of James.

The Church had held from a time almost immediately after the Gospels, that they were step brothers.

That belief fits the data.

the Helvidian view (full brothers from Mary) has a few problems, like why does St. John take her into his house? Acts 1, and scattered references elsewhere make it clear that the brothers were leaders in the Church after the Resurrection, so it wasn’t a faith question. Yet John, writting decades after the birth of the Church, looking back, states that the Virgin remained in his house, not the brothers’. I do believe that step brothers were not legally obligated to care for a step mother. A son of course was.

Also, why aren’t the brothers mentioned in the context of Christ in the Temple. He was 12, and his brothers would all be younger, and in the closer watch of Mary and Joseph. If they were older, like adults, they would have their own autonomous houeseholds that they would be heading.

 

[wisdomseeker]

In Luke 2:41-52 there is no mention of any other children because at this time Jesus was their oldest and only child.

Mark 15:47
Gen 14:14, 11:27 was lot nephew or brother of Abraham?
Joh 19:25
Mathew 27
Acts 21:14,15
if Scriptures does not contradict itself, then these so called brothers and sisters could have been nothing more than his cousins or else.

 

[justasking4]

wisdomseeker;3271317]
Originally Posted by justasking4
In Luke 2:41-52 there is no mention of any other children because at this time Jesus was their oldest and only child.

wisdomseeker
Mark 15:47
Gen 14:14, 11:27 was lot nephew or brother of Abraham?
Joh 19:25
Mathew 27
Acts 21:14,15
if Scriptures does not contradict itself, then these so called brothers and sisters could have been nothing more than his cousins or else.

The Christmas story is about the very early years of Mary and Joseph and the birth of their first born i.e. Jesus. There would be no mention at this time of any brothers or sisters since they would come later.

 

[Schabel]

The Christmas story is about the very early years of Mary and Joseph and the birth of their first born i.e. Jesus. There would be no mention at this time of any brothers or sisters since they would come later.

Ummm … look it up again. Luke 2:41-52 isn’t about Christmas. It’s about the finding of Jesus at the Temple. He was 12.

In case you don’t have a Bible, here’s a good website:
Biblia Clerus****
(I take that back – it’s a GREAT website!)

 

[justasking4]

Schabel;3284267]Ummm … look it up again. Luke 2:41-52 isn’t about Christmas. It’s about the finding of Jesus at the Temple. He was 12.

I agree. Even at the age of 12 we see no mention of His brothers and sisters. Its not until He begins His ministry at about the age of 30 that we hear about His brothers and sisters.

In case you don’t have a Bible, here’s a good website:
Biblia Clerus****
(I take that back – it’s a GREAT website!)

Thanks.

 

[southerngrl18]

I’m curious how you are getting around the scripture in Matthew 13:55, which states, “Is this not the carpenter’s son? Is not His mother called Mary? And His brothers James, Joses, Simon, and Judas?”

I don’t know about you but I do not know of any apostles named Joses (or Joseph, in some translations). Do you seriously think that once she was married that she would never have intercourse with her husband? Jesus was at least 24 years old when he was crucified and Mary was present at His crucifixation. That is a long time to have a husband without ever having intercourse. Mary did delivered Jesus the Son of God a virgin, but she was only human, a great human being, but still a human. Do you really think Joseph could’ve stopped himself from having intercourse with his WIFE?? How many men are going to do that??? Joseph and Mary were only human.

 

[DavidKays]

I need all of your help (Catholic and non). There has been this one show that comes on In Hawaii and it is of a local church. For the last three times that i’ve seen it, the pastor has been saying that Jesus had half brothers. The pastor says that Mary and Joseph had other children.

The Catholic Church believes Mary was a virgin even at death and that she and Joseph never had other children. Do other chruchs believe that they had other children? I have spoken to our deacon and priest about this issue, and they have said that Mary and Joseph never had any other children. I’ve read the CCC and understands what it says. I know that with the Bible it is all about the right interpretation. But what gives?

If the pastor of this church is wrong, then he must be stopped. I’ve been wanting to call the church but my deacon says not to. What should I do? It is really bothering me.

Hi! I am Greek Orthodox and I really understand your concerns. I don’t know why some Catholics and most Protestants have problems with this translation of scriptures but I suppose it is because you do not go to the better authority which I believe is the Eastern Church. While the Eastern Church has her own views on these matters this is not what I am referring to when I say the Eastern Church has the answers. I am not referring to theology but the understandings of relationships within a family. When a Easterner is referring to a family member like a brother or sister this does not mean brothers and sisters like you in the West refers to. No. The Easterner means the whole family. Brothers and sisters can refer to cousins, 2nd cousins and so on. You in the West really do not know the East. Man you have really awful definations about the East that have no basis to your arguements. Look to us for the true meanings of what you are searching for. You are not an authority of the East and therefore you need us to better understand the scriptures. When we refer to brothers of Jesus we mean to His whole family. That means including members such as cousins. There is no mention that Jesus has blood brothers or halfbrothers as if Joseph had children from another wife who was deceased before he met Mary. Read the scriptures to look for the truth. Look to the crucifixation if this will help. Jesus gave Mary to John at the cross so that John will take of her. Now if Jesus had blood brothers or sisters or even half-brothers that this will go against the Mosiac Law that states that a brother or sister must take care of their parents. Now since Jesus gave the care of His Mother to John that would mean that He does not and I repeat does not have any siblings at all blood or half. If He did then Jesus will be against the Mosiac Law which He dearly loved and obeyed. When the scriptures refers to brothers and sisters they mean the cousins of Jesus. John the Baptist was a cousin of Jesus. The family then is the extended family. But you in the West have alot of misunderstandings to the relationships we have in our families in the East. Try to see the light of scriptures in the family situations that the East have always have structured themselves and then you can see better and interpret the scriptures better. Jesus, Mary, and Joseph. The Holy Family is structured as like the Trinity. As the Trininty is 3 Persons in One God so the pattern of the Holy Family is also structured. The Holy Family is like unto the Trinity that is in Heaven yet we see on earth. The Holy Family thus is the pattern that all patterns is thus copied. The Trinitarian model is important in understanding the Holy Family and thus our own families. The family is thus another Trinity. The Holy Family is the best example. God Bless!

 

[Good_Fella]

I’m curious how you are getting around the scripture in Matthew 13:55, which states, "Is this not the carpenter’s son? Is not His mother called Mary? And His brothers James, Joses, Simon, and Judas?"I don’t know about you but I do not know of any apostles named Joses (or Joseph, in some translations).

Joses is a cousin of Jesus. There is no word for cousin in ancient Hebrew or Aramaic, so the person who is asking the question uses the word “brother” when referring to the relatives of Jesus. Of the four, only Joses isn’t included in the list of the twelve apostles.

Do you seriously think that once she was married that she would never have intercourse with her husband? Jesus was at least 24 years old when he was crucified and Mary was present at His crucifixation. That is a long time to have a husband without ever having intercourse.

Joseph was predestined to be Mary’s husband only legally so that she could conceive and bear our Lord Jesus Christ without creating a scandal in her community. As a Jew devout to the Torah, Joseph knew that he could not touch his wife after she had conceived and borne the child by another Person - the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit would not have overshadowed Mary if she had intended to have conjugal relations with her husband. God would not dismiss the precepts of the Torah, of which he is the divine Author. Jesus said that he did not come to abolish the law, but to fulfill it.

Mary did delivered Jesus the Son of God a virgin, but she was only human, a great human being, but still a human. Do you really think Joseph could’ve stopped himself from having intercourse with his WIFE?? How many men are going to do that??? Joseph and Mary were only human.

Scripture and Tradition reveal that Mary is no ordinary human being, but is the Spouse of the Holy Spirit and the Mother of God. Meanwhile, Joseph was a just and righteous religious man.

A garden enclosed is my sister, my spouse; a spring shut up, a fountain sealed.
Songs 4, 12

PAX :heaven:

 

[southerngrl18]

Joseph was predestined to be Mary’s husband only legally so that she could conceive and bear our Lord Jesus Christ without creating a scandal in her community. As a Jew devout to the Torah, Joseph knew that he could not touch his wife after she had conceived and borne the child by another Person - the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit would not have overshadowed Mary if she had intended to have conjugal relations with her husband. God would not dismiss the precepts of the Torah, of which he is the divine Author. Jesus said that he did not come to abolish the law, but to fulfill it.

Scripture and Tradition reveal that Mary is no ordinary human being, but is the Spouse of the Holy Spirit and the Mother of God. Meanwhile, Joseph was a just and righteous religious man.

Thanks for the explanation. I am thinking about studying to be catholic right now and it just confounds me when catholics say that Mary died a virgin.

 

[Good_Fella]

Thanks for the explanation. I am thinking about studying to be catholic right now and it just confounds me when catholics say that Mary died a virgin.

You’re welcome. To become better acquainted with the Marian doctrines of the Church, may I recommend these books for starters: The Mother of the Saviour and the Interior Life, by Father Reginald Garrigou-Lagrange, Hail, Holy Queen, by Dr. Scott Hahn, and Mary and the Fathers of the Church, by Luigi Gambero. I shall pray for you in your journey of faith, that the Holy Spirit guides you in all truth.

Pax Christu :heaven: