Jesus had siblings?

[rien]

I was talking with a foirmer Catholic seminarian - he attended an orthodox seminary a few years back - before converting to pentacostalism. He told me that at the very least Jesus had half-brothers. He said Mary may not have been perpetually a virgin.

He referred me to Eusebius’s The History of The Church.

In Book 2 of the Penguin copy of Eusebius says - he pointed me here:

“The there was James who was known as the Brother of the Lord; for he too, was called Joseph’s son, and Joseph Christ’s father, though in fact the Virgin was his betrothed and before they came together she was found to be with child by the Holy Ghost”.

At the very least this sure sounds like James was a half-brother to Jesus through Joseph. The sentence leaves open the possiblity that James was conceived after Jesus which would contradict the perpetual virginity dogma. No where in Eusebius is there a hint of this dogma.

It seems at the very least Jesus had half siblings through a previous to Mary marriage of Joseph.

Is it de-fide that Jesus had no siblings, or has the church not formally stated this?

 

[Leopard]

The perpetual virginity of Mary has been defined by the Church.

Whether St. Joseph may have been a widower with children who would have been publicly known to be half-brothers (or half-sisters) of Jesus has not been defined by the Church either in the affirmative or the negative.

 

[LilyM]

The perpetual virginity of Mary has been defined by the Church.

Whether St. Joseph may have been a widower with children who would have been publicly known to be half-brothers (or half-sisters) of Jesus has not been defined by the Church either in the affirmative or the negative.

Indeed - Mary mother of Jesus certainly is not specifically mentioned as being the mother of any other person mentioned by name in Scripture. It may indeed be the case that He had half-foster-brothers through Joseph, though they would not have been biologically related, of course.

Remember though that the word ‘brothers’ encompasses much more than biological siblings, and even more than adoptive siblings. In Acts, Peter is mentioned as addressing 120 ‘brethren’ who were there - which would make some poor woman or man miraculously fertile or extremely rich if he or she were indeed an adoptive or biological parent of all 120 of them!

 

[Lancer]

“I was talking with a former Catholic seminarian** - he attended an orthodox seminary a few years back - before converting to pentacostalism. He told me that at the very least Jesus had half-brothers. He said Mary may not have been perpetually a virgin.”

​

The Operative words in your statement are first and foremost…the words…former Catholic…once you add these words to the description of your religious and spiritual self…you become your own magisterium…everything else and all arguments for or against Catholic doctrines are mute points…anything goes because he is calling the shots. Or as I like to quote [paraphrase] Dr. Peter Kreeft, convert, author, and Professor of Philosophy , Boston College…what your friend is really saying is:
Ah… excuse me Jesus…but I believe that you are sitting on my throne…
or

Ah…excuse me Saint Peter (Pope B-XVI)…but I believe that you are sitting in my Chair.

Luke 10: 1 (Context) & 16 (Specific Point):

1. “After this** *the ***Lord appointed seventy-two others and sent them on ahead of him, two by two, into every town and place where he himself was about to go.”…
​

16. “The one who hears you hears me, and the one who rejects you rejects me, and the one who rejects me rejects him who sent me.”

(English Standard Version Bible)

​

Take a look at the whole context…before and after…Luke 10:16…it is not a pretty picture that Our Lord Jesus predicts for those who reject the ones he sends…it is his “WOE TO YOU…” wrath sermon"!

Can you picture what it would be like for you or I…or especially your friend to have Jesus himself…in his natural glorified state…standing next to us or your friend and telling us or him…quoting himself from what he said and Luke wrote in chapter 10: verse 16? And we are going to say…nay, I don’t buy it! Ah… excuse me Jesus…

Pax Christi

 

[terrysa]

Mary had taken a vow of virginity before her arranged marriage with Joseph. Joseph, an elderly widower who had already had children was chosen to be her protector. As Catholics we believe that Mary, whose perfect love and obedience to God made her worthy of being His mother, was true to her vow.

for further reading:

catholic.com/library/Mary_Ever_Virgin.asp

Hope this helps! God bless!

 

[Leopard]

…Joseph, an elderly widower who had already had children was chosen to be her protector…

This is one traditional teaching about St. Joseph. Another is that both he and Mary were lifelong virgins. The Church has not defined either one to be true. Catholics are free to believe either tradition.

 

[HHMom]

By Jesus’ own words while dying on the cross he, in not so many words, let us know he had no siblings.

Jesus looked to his disiple John and his mother Mary and asked each of them to behold thier son and behold thier mother.

In jewish tradition women had to be under the care of a male relative. If a father died the care of mom would fall to the eldest son. If that son died, then on to the next son, etc. Upon Jesus’ death Mary had to go under the care of a close male member of her family. Jesus asked his best friend to take care of his Mother because there was no family for her to go to,

References in the bible to Jesus’ brothers and sisters is a translation problem as well. Where we have english words for cousins and nephews, such specific words were not used in the original languages of the bible. More general terms more like “kinsman” seem to apply.

Plus, references to “brothers and sisters” is more like how, pardon me if this doesn’t come out right, African-American people refer to each other as “brother” and “sister”.

 

[patrick457]

Plus, references to “brothers and sisters” is more like how, pardon me if this doesn’t come out right, African-American people refer to each other as “brother” and “sister”.

Yes. If I could name another modern-day example:

In church, we often hear ourselves addressed as “brethren” or “brothers and sisters”. Are we to take that literally and believe all of us who are inside the church are biological siblings? The couple who bore all of us must be extremely fertile, and very advanced in age to produce children ranging from newborn babes to aged men…

 

[Magnus467]

Also, any relatives of Jesus cousins…etc would have been referred to as brothers a tribal society. If I am correct, there was no word in their language for nephew, cousin…only brother, father, and son (and their female counterparts).

 

[RobbyS]

I was talking with a foirmer Catholic seminarian - he attended an orthodox seminary a few years back - before converting to pentacostalism. He told me that at the very least Jesus had half-brothers. He said Mary may not have been perpetually a virgin.

He referred me to Eusebius’s The History of The Church.

In Book 2 of the Penguin copy of Eusebius says - he pointed me here:

“The there was James who was known as the Brother of the Lord; for he too, was called Joseph’s son, and Joseph Christ’s father, though in fact the Virgin was his betrothed and before they came together she was found to be with child by the Holy Ghost”.

At the very least this sure sounds like James was a half-brother to Jesus through Joseph. The sentence leaves open the possiblity that James was conceived after Jesus which would contradict the perpetual virginity dogma. No where in Eusebius is there a hint of this dogma.

It seems at the very least Jesus had half siblings through a previous to Mary marriage of Joseph.

Is it de-fide that Jesus had no siblings, or has the church not formally stated this?

It ought to be mentioned that Jewish families were of the extended kind, so that Our Lord may have been related to many of the people mentioned in the Gospels. Those who first read them would have known who they were, or known people who did know who they were. On the other hand, there must have been people who were “present” in certains scenes but silent and unnamed. Consider the story that takes Mary from Nazareth o her counsin Elizabeth’s house in the Judean hill country. Someone just have escorted her, a young girl, most likely a relative, on a journey that took several days. Who? Or when the Holy Family fled to Egypt. Despite the pious paintings, unlikely that just the three of them went.

 

[RobbyS]

This is one traditional teaching about St. Joseph. Another is that both he and Mary were lifelong virgins. The Church has not defined either one to be true. Catholics are free to believe either tradition.

The art tradition usually has Joseph as an old man. He may have been a cousin of Mary. A widower cousin in his '30s who takes on a young girl as wife?

 

[Leopard]

The art tradition usually has Joseph as an old man. He may have been a cousin of Mary. A widower cousin in his '30s who takes on a young girl as wife?

Or older, yes. It was not unheard of in that culture, in that time. It’s not even unheard of in this culture in this time.

(except for the cousins part)

(unless you live in Alabama)

 

[SMHW]

I’ve had another possibility suggested to me. When Joseph died, it may be that Joseph’s brother took in Mary and Jesus. Jesus would then have spent some years raised by a step uncle in the father role and living with his step cousins as if brothers and sisters.

 

[YADA]

I was talking with a foirmer Catholic seminarian - he attended an orthodox seminary a few years back - before converting to pentacostalism. He told me that at the very least Jesus had half-brothers. He said Mary may not have been perpetually a virgin.

He referred me to Eusebius’s The History of The Church.

In Book 2 of the Penguin copy of Eusebius says - he pointed me here:

“The there was James who was known as the Brother of the Lord; for he too, was called Joseph’s son, and Joseph Christ’s father, though in fact the Virgin was his betrothed and before they came together she was found to be with child by the Holy Ghost”.

At the very least this sure sounds like James was a half-brother to Jesus through Joseph. The sentence leaves open the possiblity that James was conceived after Jesus which would contradict the perpetual virginity dogma. No where in Eusebius is there a hint of this dogma.

It seems at the very least Jesus had half siblings through a previous to Mary marriage of Joseph.

Is it de-fide that Jesus had no siblings, or has the church not formally stated this?

Many have already posted great posts FYI, I have a priest friend from India and one fro Africa - in both of their mother tongues - even today - there is no word for cousin or uncle/aunt … As in Aramaic and jewish tradition any male family member Uncle/brother/cousin or even a man from the same village is called a “brother” …

Lot is called a brother of Abraham but we know that Abraham was Lot’s uncle …

So that begs the question … your post implies that this is perhaps the reason this 'Seminarian" left the faith … if so he was poorly catechised, not very well read and weak in faith … one has to wonder what the real reason for his leaving was …

Or if he was really ever a catholic and this story of being in seminary is just that - a story …

Please take no offense at that questioning … it just seems very odd … the sibling issue being a common question for even RE grade schoolers, more so for youth and high school … That a seminarian would be thrown off is almost too much … and without extensive study of many sources in the history of the church where this is dicussed …

 

[SHW]

This is one traditional teaching about St. Joseph. Another is that both he and Mary were lifelong virgins. The Church has not defined either one to be true. Catholics are free to believe either tradition.

Bl. Anne Catherine Emmerich saw in her visions that James the Greater and John (Sons of Thunder) are the sons of Mary Salome and Zebedee. Mary Salome is St. Anne’s older sister. St. Anne is the Blessed Virgin’s mother.

St. Anne’s eldest daughter, Mary Heli, is sister to the Blessed Virgin Mary. Mary Heli was married three times in all:

Mary Heli when married to 1st husband Alpheus became the mother of Simon (not Peter the Rock), James the Less, and Thaddeus. She is also stepmother to Matthew the Tax Collector, the son of Alpheus from his first marriage. Joses Barsabas is the child of her 2nd marriage with Sabas. From her 3rd marriage with Cleophas she had a son who was named Simeon of Jerusalem. (Men must not have lived very long in those days.)

Simon, James the Less, Thaddeus, Joses Barsabas, and Simeon of Jerusalem are Jesus’ first cousins. Matthew is a step-first cousin, if there is such a thing.

James the Greater and John are first cousins to the Blessed Virgin.

Joseph was a virgin his whole life according to Bl. A.C.E. Joseph was the third of six brothers. He was quite a bit older than Mary. Mary was a Temple virgin.

Of course, this is private revelation, so one may believe what one wills.

Pax,
SHW

 

[thistle]

Bl. Anne Catherine Emmerich saw in her visions that James the Greater and John (Sons of Thunder) are the sons of Mary Salome and Zebedee. Mary Salome is St. Anne’s older sister. St. Anne is the Blessed Virgin’s mother.

St. Anne’s eldest daughter, Mary Heli, is sister to the Blessed Virgin Mary. Mary Heli was married three times in all:

Mary Heli when married to 1st husband Alpheus became the mother of Simon (not Peter the Rock), James the Less, and Thaddeus. She is also stepmother to Matthew the Tax Collector, the son of Alpheus from his first marriage. Joses Barsabas is the child of her 2nd marriage with Sabas. From her 3rd marriage with Cleophas she had a son who was named Simeon of Jerusalem. (Men must not have lived very long in those days.)

Simon, James the Less, Thaddeus, Joses Barsabas, and Simeon of Jerusalem are Jesus’ first cousins. Matthew is a step-first cousin, if there is such a thing.

James the Greater and John are first cousins to the Blessed Virgin.

Joseph was a virgin his whole life according to Bl. A.C.E. Joseph was the third of six brothers. He was quite a bit older than Mary. Mary was a Temple virgin.

Of course, this is private revelation, so one may believe what one wills.

Pax,
SHW

We don’t have to accept private revelations, especially those which add things not in Holy Scripture.

 

[SHW]

We don’t have to accept private revelations, especially those which add things not in Holy Scripture.

That is what I meant when I said:
“Of course, this is private revelation, so one may believe what one wills.” (You can believe it if what you want to.)

Pax,
SHW

 

[Eddie_Mac]

Bl. Anne Catherine Emmerich saw in her visions that James the Greater and John (Sons of Thunder) are the sons of Mary Salome and Zebedee. Mary Salome is St. Anne’s older sister. St. Anne is the Blessed Virgin’s mother.

St. Anne’s eldest daughter, Mary Heli, is sister to the Blessed Virgin Mary. Mary Heli was married three times in all:

Mary Heli when married to 1st husband Alpheus became the mother of Simon (not Peter the Rock), James the Less, and Thaddeus. She is also stepmother to Matthew the Tax Collector, the son of Alpheus from his first marriage. Joses Barsabas is the child of her 2nd marriage with Sabas. From her 3rd marriage with Cleophas she had a son who was named Simeon of Jerusalem. (Men must not have lived very long in those days.)

Simon, James the Less, Thaddeus, Joses Barsabas, and Simeon of Jerusalem are Jesus’ first cousins. Matthew is a step-first cousin, if there is such a thing.

James the Greater and John are first cousins to the Blessed Virgin.

Joseph was a virgin his whole life according to Bl. A.C.E. Joseph was the third of six brothers. He was quite a bit older than Mary. Mary was a Temple virgin.

Of course, this is private revelation, so one may believe what one wills.

Pax,
SHW

I just purchased the six book set and am having the most marvelous read I could imagine apart from reading scripture and having the Spirit inspire my understanding.

Eddie Mac

 

[SHW]

I just purchased the six book set and am having the most marvelous read I could imagine apart from reading scripture and having the Spirit inspire my understanding.

Eddie Mac

Hi Eddie,

I have the 4 volume set (1986) and I am rereading it again. I agree, it is marvelous. I did not know that there is a 6 volume set. Thanks for the info.

Pax,
SHW

 

[Irish_Kathy]

I’ve had another possibility suggested to me. When Joseph died, it may be that Joseph’s brother took in Mary and Jesus. Jesus would then have spent some years raised by a step uncle in the father role and living with his step cousins as if brothers and sisters.

That is another WONDERFUL idea. It also makes perfect sense, especially if Mary was a widow at the time. I never thought of that before.

My other alternative idea is that perhaps Mary and Joseph adopted some other children after Jesus was born.