Jesus is God?

[katy_kt]

In the name of Allah , Most Gracious, Most Merciful

http://theislampath.com/smf/Smileys/default/salam.gif

yap. Only God has no beginning , no end. Others are His creations .

Neither do we. As I said, that verse does not imply that he literally had no beginning or end because that only belongs to God. Therefore its purpose is to show the mystery surrounding him and the irrelevance of his background to the position he was given.

 

[Centos]

I have read the gospels and it doesn’t say he is God as clearly as you have, where does it say this?

When Jesus said, “Before Abraham was, I AM.” Just as the God in the burning bush said to Moses, “I AM, WHO AM.” The Jews knew what he was claiming, that’s why they tried to stone him for blasphemy.

We also have Christ saying of Himself – “I and the Father are One.”

And St. John begins his Gospel by writing, “In the beginning was the Word, and and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.” And later in the chapter. “And the Word became flesh.”

It’s pretty clear.

May God be with you

 

[planten]

So what is your point here???, no believing Christian denies that GOD has no beginning, no end…it still does not negate the fact that the Word of God became flesh in the person of Jesus. Why do muslims think it is beneath God to enter into his own creation??.
Do you beleive in the Jewish biblical story of God appearing to Moses in the form of a burning Bush?? Is there anywhere in the Quran where Allah manifested himself into his creation?

What does the title Kalimatullah and Ruhallah attributed to Jesus mean according to muslims exegies??, and why was Jesus given such titles?

Seeker

**Seeker, I would not make the word into flesh in the person of Jesus. We do not believe it under the status of God to do anything that he likes. Please understand as follows:

Some people believe that 1. “God can do everything”. It seems right for them to say so. But it is not right. In the Quran, it is written 2. “Allah can do everything that he likes (or wills).”

That No.2 is a far better statement than number 1.

Now the problem arises about the Will of God or Allah. How do we know what He wills and what He does not will?

It is not difficult to solve that problem. The Will of God/Allah is described in the sacred revealed books. By reference to the revealed books, Torah, BibleNT and Quran, we can find out what God/Allah wills and what He does not will.

WE cannot use the power or will of God/Allah ourselves. We are not God/Allah and we cannot attribute anything to Allah to do as we wish. We have to see and know what he wishes and wills.

As a bad example, one could say that God can do everything. He can become a donkey. he can create a vey big stone which He cannot lift himself. he can… He can…

There would be no end to such fanciful (false) thinking, on the mere basis that God/Allah can do everything. Pardon any mistake or disrespect please. Thank You.

The one who seeks finds.

**

 

[planten]

**
Seeker, I forgot to mention the Roohullah and Kalimatullah. Jesus son of Mary has got many titles as per Quran.

1. Jesus is the word of Good news that was given to Mary long before she could even think of any marriage. And the chances of marraige were remote. She had no relatives, no money, no property, nothing worldly to attract the attention of any male member.

But she had the blessings of God with her. It is a long story, as mentioned in the Quran, as how and when mary was given the news of an illustrous son. She was surprised because she did not even have any hope of marriage.

But God arranged her marriage, the very best marriage. God (Allah) chose her husband for her. It is all described in the Quran (Chapter 3 and 19). She was very beautiful and beloved of God with very good nature and pious person. She did not belong to any one. In fact she belonged to God as her mother had left her in the service of the temple. So she was common property. She belonged to every one.

Many suitors came to take her when she was offered for marriage. There was a tough contest (competition) and every one struggled ( even to fight) to gain the beautiful hand of mary. The lots were cast to decide the matter peacefully. We know that when lots are cast then it is the Will of God that enters in to the decision. So God decided in favor of Joseph the Carpentar. He was the lucky person to take Mary. God chose the husband of Mary.

As I said, it is all described in the Quran and it is a long descriptive (even though it is very briefly described in the Quran).

So that is the word which came to Mary about the good news of a Blessed son.

More on this subject or rest of the matter (kalimatullah) in some next post…**

 

[fbl9]

can one the Muslims address this verse for me from the gospel written by St,Matthew24:9"Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and will put you to death; and you will hated by all nations for my name’s sake"… why would one be hated for the sake of Jesus’s name?

 

[Seeker]

**Seeker, I would not make the word into flesh in the person of Jesus. We do not believe it under the status of God to do anything that he likes. Please understand as follows:

Some people believe that 1. “God can do everything”. It seems right for them to say so. But it is not right. In the Quran, it is written 2. “Allah can do everything that he likes (or wills).”

That No.2 is a far better statement than number 1.

Now the problem arises about the Will of God or Allah. How do we know what He wills and what He does not will?

It is not difficult to solve that problem. The Will of God/Allah is described in the sacred revealed books. By reference to the revealed books, Torah, BibleNT and Quran, we can find out what God/Allah wills and what He does not will.

*So what you are saying above is, to know what GOD/Allah wills and does not, I need to reference the revealed books, i.e. Torah, NT and Quran. So if i do go to the revealed books i read that in the Torah God willed to appear to Moses as a “Burning Bush”, and in the New Testatment, GOD will to became incarnate in the person of Jesus, and in the Quran, Allah willed to manifest his Word through revelation. Is this fair to say?

---

WE cannot use the power or will of God/Allah ourselves. We are not God/Allah and we cannot attribute anything to Allah to do as we wish. We have to see and know what he wishes and wills.

What do you mean by this statement “WE cannot use the power or will of God/Allah ourselves”, can you please elaborate?

you said “We are not God/Allah and we cannot attribute anything to Allah to do as we wish”, I agree, then you say “We have to see and know what he wishes and wills”, how should we as human beings see and know what he wishes and wills, please explain?

As a bad example, one could say that God can do everything. He can become a donkey. he can create a vey big stone which He cannot lift himself. he can… He can…

I heard these before, can GOD create a stone, answer = yes, can he create a big/heavy stone, answer = yes, can he create such a /heavy stone, to heavy for him to carry, answer = No. Why?, because one of GOD’s key qualities is he is all knowning, so why would GOD create a stone, so heavy he cannot carry. But this analogy does not and cannot be applied to God entering into his creation, into his dominion.
GOD is GOD, he does not cease to be GOD because he entered into his own creation or appeared in the form of a “Burning Bush”

There would be no end to such fanciful (false) thinking, on the mere basis that God/Allah can do everything. Pardon any mistake or disrespect please Likewise. Thank You.Thank you and Salam

The one who seeks finds.

 

[Seeker]

**Seeker, I would not make the word into flesh in the person of Jesus. We do not believe it under the status of God to do anything that he likes. Please understand as follows:

Some people believe that 1. “God can do everything”. It seems right for them to say so. But it is not right. In the Quran, it is written 2. “Allah can do everything that he likes (or wills).”

That No.2 is a far better statement than number 1.

Now the problem arises about the Will of God or Allah. How do we know what He wills and what He does not will?

It is not difficult to solve that problem. The Will of God/Allah is described in the sacred revealed books. By reference to the revealed books, Torah, BibleNT and Quran, we can find out what God/Allah wills and what He does not will.

WE cannot use the power or will of God/Allah ourselves. We are not God/Allah and we cannot attribute anything to Allah to do as we wish. We have to see and know what he wishes and wills.

As a bad example, one could say that God can do everything. He can become a donkey. he can create a vey big stone which He cannot lift himself. he can… He can…

There would be no end to such fanciful (false) thinking, on the mere basis that God/Allah can do everything. Pardon any mistake or disrespect please. Thank You.

The one who seeks finds.

**

**
Seeker, I forgot to mention the Roohullah and Kalimatullah. Jesus son of Mary has got many titles as per Quran.

1. Jesus is the word of Good news that was given to Mary long before she could even think of any marriage. And the chances of marraige were remote. She had no relatives, no money, no property, nothing worldly to attract the attention of any male member.

Are you sure about Kalimatullah being translated as “word of Good news”, and not “Word of God”???.

Also, why do you say mary had no relatives?, does not the Quran state that Elizabeth the mother of John the Baptist as Mary’s cousin??**

But she had the blessings of God with her. It is a long story, as mentioned in the Quran, as how and when mary was given the news of an illustrous son. She was surprised because she did not even have any hope of marriage.

But God arranged her marriage, the very best marriage. God (Allah) chose her husband for her. It is all described in the Quran (Chapter 3 and 19). She was very beautiful and beloved of God with very good nature and pious person. She did not belong to any one. In fact she belonged to God as her mother had left her in the service of the temple. So she was common property. She belonged to every one.

Many suitors came to take her when she was offered for marriage. There was a tough contest (competition) and every one struggled ( even to fight) to gain the beautiful hand of mary. The lots were cast to decide the matter peacefully. We know that when lots are cast then it is the Will of God that enters in to the decision. So God decided in favor of Joseph the Carpentar. He was the lucky person to take Mary. God chose the husband of Mary.

As I said, it is all described in the Quran and it is a long descriptive (even though it is very briefly described in the Quran).

So that is the word which came to Mary about the good news of a Blessed son.

IMHO, I think that birth narration of Mary in the Quran, and the birth narration of Jesus is very different from what is mentioned in the Gospels. For example:

Regarding the Birth of Mary:
In the Quran, when Mary was born she was put under the care of Zachariah (sura 3:37), here is the translated sura:
[3:37] Her Lord accepted her a gracious acceptance, and brought her up a gracious upbringing, under the guardianship of Zachariah.
My question is, why Zachariah?, Mary had a mother and father, (Joachim and Anna)

Also in sura 3:37, the next verse ( and you pointed this out in your comments too), it says "Whenever Zachariah entered her sanctuary he found provisions with her. He would ask, “Mary, where did you get this from?” She would say, “It is from GOD. GOD provides for whomever He chooses, without limits.”

Why was Mary left in the temple, what was the purpose??..My personal interpretation was Mary was given up by her biological parents and was to be taken care of Zachariah in the temple because her mother thought she was going to have a righteous boy, but she had a girl. Here is the translated suras:
[3:36] When she gave birth to her, she said, “My Lord, I have given birth to a girl” - GOD was fully aware of what she bore - “The male is not the same as the female. I have named her Mary, and I invoke Your protection for her and her descendants from the rejected devil.”

[3:37] Her Lord accepted her a gracious acceptance, and brought her up a gracious upbringing, under the guardianship of Zachariah. Whenever Zachariah entered her sanctuary he found provisions with her. He would ask, “Mary, where did you get this from?” She would say, “It is from GOD. GOD provides for whomever He chooses, without limits.”

Regarding the Birth of Jesus:
In the Quran, in Sura 19 verse 23, Mary gave birth to Jesus under a Palm tree, here is the translated sura "The birth process came to her by the trunk of a palm tree. She said, “(I am so ashamed I wish I were dead before this happened, and completely forgotten”. So happened to the Jesus being born in a manger/stable/inn???. Secondly, Mary travelled to a far off place ALONE to give birth (sura 19 verse 22), where was Joseph??. The very reason Mary travelled was because King Herod heard news of birth of King, and ordered every new born male child to be killed, and so Mary AND JOSEPH travelled from Nazareth to Bethlehem. It was there where Mary gave birth to Jesus in a manager/stable/inn (depending on translation)

More on this subject or rest of the matter (kalimatullah) in some next post…

 

[planten]

BY Planten:

1. Jesus is the word of Good news that was given to Mary long before she could even think of any marriage. And the chances of marraige were remote. She had no relatives, no money, no property, nothing worldly to attract the attention of any male member.

From Seeker:
Are you sure about Kalimatullah being translated as “word of Good news”, and not “Word of God”???.

Yes you are right. Kalimatullah means the word or spoken word of God. It is as you have said. More to follow soon, Insha Allah.

 

[planten]

By Seeker:

IMHO, I think that birth narration of Mary in the Quran, and the birth narration of Jesus is very different from what is mentioned in the Gospels. For example:

Regarding the Birth of Mary:
In the Quran, when Mary was born she was put under the care of Zachariah (sura 3:37), here is the translated sura:
[3:37] Her Lord accepted her a gracious acceptance, and brought her up a gracious upbringing, under the guardianship of Zachariah.
My question is, why Zachariah?, Mary had a mother and father, (Joachim and Anna)

**I feel that I may have described the reason why Mary was handed over to Zakariyyah. Before Mary was born, her mother had willed to God that whatever was in her womb she would like to dedicate it to the service of the Lord. She was hoping it would be a male child. But it turned out to be a girl.( ch. 3). Anyhow, she fulfilled her promise with her Lord. The mother of Mary was God fearing and God loving pious person, a good Jewess. She brought Mary to the temple when Mary may have been few years old. (ch. 3)

(ch. 19) The temple was in some city which was to the east of the place of birth of Mary, may be quite a long distance away. the mother left Mary there and Mary was left alone in the temple, not visited by parents again. That (last few things) are all in the Quran. Mary was separated from her family (ch.19).**

Also in sura 3:37, the next verse ( and you pointed this out in your comments too), it says "Whenever Zachariah entered her sanctuary he found provisions with her. He would ask, “Mary, where did you get this from?” She would say, “It is from GOD. GOD provides for whomever He chooses, without limits.”

Why was Mary left in the temple, what was the purpose??..My personal interpretation was Mary was given up by her biological parents and was to be taken care of Zachariah in the temple because her mother thought she was going to have a righteous boy, but she had a girl. Here is the translated suras:
[3:36] When she gave birth to her, she said, “My Lord, I have given birth to a girl” - GOD was fully aware of what she bore - “The male is not the same as the female. I have named her Mary, and I invoke Your protection for her and her descendants from the rejected devil.”

** I have already described the reason. The mother did not know that she was going to have a righteous boy. She was hoping that she may have a boy and that boy may serve God Almighty. She wished it or hoped to achieve something.**

[3:37] Her Lord accepted her a gracious acceptance, and brought her up a gracious upbringing, under the guardianship of Zachariah. Whenever Zachariah entered her sanctuary he found provisions with her. He would ask, “Mary, where did you get this from?” She would say, “It is from GOD. GOD provides for whomever He chooses, without limits.”

This was not any material provisions (fruit etc.) as the Muslims have written in their commentaries. It was the spiritual fruit i.e. the knowledge of good things and pious manners.

Regarding the Birth of Jesus:
In the Quran, in Sura 19 verse 23, Mary gave birth to Jesus under a Palm tree, here is the translated sura "The birth process came to her by the trunk of a palm tree. She said, “(I am so ashamed I wish I were dead before this happened, and completely forgotten”. So happened to the Jesus being born in a manger/stable/inn???. Secondly, Mary travelled to a far off place ALONE to give birth (sura 19 verse 22), where was Joseph??. The very reason Mary travelled was because King Herod heard news of birth of King, and ordered every new born male child to be killed, and so Mary AND JOSEPH travelled from Nazareth to Bethlehem. It was there where Mary gave birth to Jesus in a manager/stable/inn (depending on translation)

**There is so much problem here. The Quran is a describing things in beautiful symbolic language which have deeper meaning than appear on the surface. There was no shame of any kind. She concieved Jesus and went far away from the city where she was living with Joseph, her husband. When she gave birth, her husband was with her.

It only goes to show the bad and difficult conditions under which the pious men are born. She had no home, no shelter, no comfortable place where she could give birth to her child. The Quran is describing the difficult situation.

But please note that Quran is not describing the shame of Mary at all. There was no ground for any shame because she had not done any shameful work. Her husband was with her and she was away from her own place of residence. Nobody could ask her anything.

The reason she cried out the words “Oh, if only I was dead before this and a thing quite forgotten” is descibing her pains of child bearing and helpnessness.

In return, she was given a message from Allah, “Do not be sorry. Your Lord has made a fountain to flow under your feet…” (special meaning, symbolic)
“Shake the trunk of the palm tree. Fresh dates will fall upon you.” (special meaning, symbolic)
: " So eat and drink and cool thy eyes (by a look on your son)." (special meaning, symbolic)
" If you meet any mortal, then say that you have vowed a fast unto your Lord. You shall not speak to any one ever (on that day or ever afterwards.)" (special meaning, symbolic)

All these verse have beautiful meanings, I do not know what to call them. I cannot find the right English word for them, may be aesthetic could be a good word.

(I will come back with explanation soon…)**

 

[planten]

** In return, she was given a message from Allah, “Do not be sorry. Your Lord has made a fountain to flow under your feet…” (special meaning, symbolic)

Mary was told by Allah (care of angel) not to be sorry for the bad conditions in which she gave birth to her son. God told her that there were many good things in that special birth. The fountain does not mean that there was stream of water running under her feet. It was going to be a new stream of divine guidance for her people.**

“Shake the trunk of the palm tree. Fresh dates will fall upon you.” (special meaning, symbolic)

Shake the trunk of the tree, is “Use all means for good living. Do not be hopeless or idle. Keep trying and looking for help. You will be rewarded.”
I have not observed that any one could shake the trunk of a palm tree to get some dates. The dates are always very far high up on the tree. They cannot be dropped by shaking the tree.

: " So eat and drink and cool thy eyes (by a look on your son)." (special meaning, symbolic)

Eat and drink and cool thy eyes. Live normally and be happy.

" If you meet any mortal, then say that you have vowed a fast unto your Lord. You shall not speak to any one ever (on that day or ever afterwards.)" (special meaning, symbolic)

Here is an important message to Mary a.s. She is told that, in future, if any one tries to discuss things with her, she should tell him that she was not to speak to any one at all. i.e. not to take part in any serious discussion. It does not mean that she was to fast for a day or two not to speak at all. That is not the case.

(Also it is not the case of any illegal birth that people may ask her about it. No such thing. Her husband is with her.)

If she was fasting not to talk then how she will tell any one that she was fasting. The moment she will speak, her fast will be broken and forfieted. How many days she will keep quiet?
This verse is not for Mary to keep quiet. It is meant that in future, she should not discuss any meaningful thing with any mortal. The word “Kalaam” is present in this verse. Kalaam is used for meaningful speech. It is not used for talking.

Kalimah is also some meaningful sentence.

Maryam is told that if any one will involve her in any serious religious discussion about herself or her son, she should tell them that she was not to take part in any serious discussion.

In other words, it is told to Mary that all the serious talk (speech) will be done by her son in furture. (And that is what happened if you read further verses of the same chapter, you will find that soon the trouble started, as soon as Jesus started his preachings, the trouble started and the elders of the Jews came to Maryam, addressing her respectfully as the sister of Aaron and asking her to control Jesus).
I hope there is some meaning in what I said above.

 

[Bill_Pick]

I have read the gospels and it doesn’t say he is God as clearly as you have, where does it say this?

When Thomas first look at Jesus after his(Jesus) death did he not say my Lord and My God don,t know the verse right off but I believe I ,M right

 

[fbl9]

can one the Muslims address this verse for me from the gospel written by St,Matthew24:9"Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and will put you to death; and you will hated by all nations for my name’s sake"… why would one be hated for the sake of Jesus’s name?

is there any place that any prophet’s followers were hated for the sake of said prophet’s name?

 

[shivabramin]

jesus is god for catholics they need no proof , as for muslim allah is god , and for hindus shiva is god , at the end faith is the ultimate proof

 

[Chellow]

You know Christ is known as the Good Shepherd John 10:1-21. Look at this in Luke 18:18, Christ is called “Good teacher“ and in return he says “No one is good but God alone.”

 

[Centos]

jesus is god for catholics they need no proof , as for muslim allah is god , and for hindus shiva is god , at the end faith is the ultimate proof

On the contrary… "16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek 17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith. 18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; 19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. 20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: 21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, (Romans 1)

By reason man can know God – for God “showed it unto them…so that they are without excuse…”

Since, by his miracles, fulfillment of prophecy and by his death and resurrection, Christ proved that he was the Son of God, we believe the Mysteries he taught (even if we don’t fully understand them) because of the authority of the Teacher.

May God be with you

 

[planten]

**For the seeker: Al-Quran chapter 19.

[26] “So eat and drink and cool (thine) eye. And if thou dost see any man, say, ‘I have vowed a fast to (Allah) Most Gracious, and this day will I not speak (discuss) with any human being’”

[27] At length when she brought him to her people, having him carried,. They said: "O Maryam! truly an amazing thing hast thou brought!

[28] “O sister of Harun! thy father was not a man of evil, nor thy mother a woman rebellious!”

[29] But she pointed to him ( to Jesus). They said: “How can we talk to one who was a child in the cradle?” **

The above are the next verses about Jesus and Mary from the Quran chapter 19. Mary was told not to enter into any serious dialogue with any one. Later when Jesus grew up and he started his ministery, Mary was with Jesus when he went to Jerusalem.

These are very nice beautiful words of the Quran. I am not competent to convey the meaning in English properly.

The verse 27 is describing the love of Mary for Jesus and his good work. With great hopes and happiness, she brought her son (Jesus) to the public, him riding ( carried). She was hoping of a good resulting welcome for her son (Jesus). But what was the result? The Jewish people got upset and became disturbed and they came to Mary and talked to her in bad manner, saying:

" O, Mary, sister of Harun (Aaron), Your father was a good person and your mother was also not against the Jewish faith. But look at what you have brought forth!! a strange and disturbing thing for us."

Please note here that the elders respected Mary. They addressed her in a good way remembering her past good service at the temple. So they addressed her as the sister of Aaron, not as sister of Moses a.s. (Even though Aaron and Moses were brothers.)

In that way, the elders sought some help from Mary so that she could stop (control) Jesus from his hardline preaching. But as Mary was previously advised by God not to enter into any serious discussion / dialogue, she remembered the advice and did not speak in their favor or against them. She pointed to her son (Jesus). (not to any baby).

In other words, She simply said " You are talking about religion and he is also talking about religion. So you please deal with him. Do not bother me."

They replied, “How can we talk to a one who had been a child in the cradle !!” ( a milk drinking child in the cradle). Please note that Jesus at that time is not a child. He is a grown up man and preaching, must be more than 30 years old. The word for past tense (kaana) is there in the Arabic in that verse.

In other words, the elders considered Jesus much below their rank. They said that Jesus had been a milk drinking child in front of them. He (Jesus) could not be any match for them.
(More later, where Jesus speaks and tells all about himself…)

 

[Bill_Pick]

**For the seeker: Al-Quran chapter 19.

[26] “So eat and drink and cool (thine) eye. And if thou dost see any man, say, ‘I have vowed a fast to (Allah) Most Gracious, and this day will I not speak (discuss) with any human being’”

[27] At length when she brought him to her people, having him carried,. They said: "O Maryam! truly an amazing thing hast thou brought!

[28] “O sister of Harun! thy father was not a man of evil, nor thy mother a woman rebellious!”

[29] But she pointed to him ( to Jesus). They said: “How can we talk to one who was a child in the cradle?” **

The above are the next verses about Jesus and Mary from the Quran chapter 19. Mary was told not to enter into any serious dialogue with any one. Later when Jesus grew up and he started his ministery, Mary was with Jesus when he went to Jerusalem.

These are very nice beautiful words of the Quran. I am not competent to convey the meaning in English properly.

The verse 27 is describing the love of Mary for Jesus and his good work. With great hopes and happiness, she brought her son (Jesus) to the public, him riding ( carried). She was hoping of a good resulting welcome for her son (Jesus). But what was the result? The Jewish people got upset and became disturbed and they came to Mary and talked to her in bad manner, saying:

" O, Mary, sister of Harun (Aaron), Your father was a good person and your mother was also not against the Jewish faith. But look at what you have brought forth!! a strange and disturbing thing for us."

Please note here that the elders respected Mary. They addressed her in a good way remembering her past good service at the temple. So they addressed her as the sister of Aaron, not as sister of Moses a.s. (Even though Aaron and Moses were brothers.)

In that way, the elders sought some help from Mary so that she could stop (control) Jesus from his hardline preaching. But as Mary was previously advised by God not to enter into any serious discussion / dialogue, she remembered the advice and did not speak in their favor or against them. She pointed to her son (Jesus). (not to any baby).

In other words, She simply said " You are talking about religion and he is also talking about religion. So you please deal with him. Do not bother me."

They replied, “How can we talk to a one who had been a child in the cradle !!” ( a milk drinking child in the cradle). Please note that Jesus at that time is not a child. He is a grown up man and preaching, must be more than 30 years old. The word for past tense (kaana) is there in the Arabic in that verse.

In other words, the elders considered Jesus much below their rank. They said that Jesus had been a milk drinking child in front of them. He (Jesus) could not be any match for them.
(More later, where Jesus speaks and tells all about himself…)

If you are going to learn about Mary and Jesus you need to read the bible,not some book about fairty tales===Gen. 3:15 - we see from the very beginning that God gives Mary a unique role in salvation history. God says “I will put enmity between you and the woman, between your seed and her seed.” This refers to Jesus (the “emnity”) and Mary (the “woman”). The phrase “her seed” (spermatos) is not seen elsewhere in Scripture.

Gen 3:15 / Rev. 12:1 - the Scriptures begin and end with the woman battling satan. This points to the power of the woman with the seed and teaches us that Jesus and Mary are the new Adam and the new Eve.

John 2:4, 19:26 - Jesus calls Mary “woman” as she is called in Gen. 3:15. Just as Eve was the mother of the old creation, Mary is the mother of the new creation. This woman’s seed will crush the serpent’s skull.

Isaiah 7:14; Matt. 1:23 - a virgin (the Greek word used is “parthenos”) will bear a Son named Emmanuel, which means “God is with us.” John 1:14 - God in flesh dwelt among us. Mary is the Virgin Mother of God.

Matt. 2:11 - Luke emphasizes Jesus is with Mary His Mother, and the magi fall down before both of them, worshiping Jesus.

Luke 1:35 - the child will be called holy, the Son of God. Mary is the Mother of the Son of God, or the Mother of God (the “Theotokos”).

 

[shivabramin]

“when fanatism appear in the life of men , any reasoning goes to waste”

excerp from the shiva puranas

 

[pr35120]

if u listen to my jw boss.he says jesus is michael and that their is scripture that calls michael lord.and that there is more examples of that.i told him about how in revalations, why does the bible begin speaking of jesus and then , if we were to go with his logic. that michael is mentioned speaking in his archangel voice.why would jesus , need to use an archangel voice unless he was an archangel.he says their way more proof to what he says.that you cant take one scripture and define the subject, that it all flows to pretty much what he says. he tried to trap me, but i wasnt going to fall for that