Jesus is the son of God

[Tom_Baum]

Where did God reveal a gender of masculinity? I thought that since God incarnate was not human, there is no need to be either masculine or feminine. Also, why can’t God be neuter and Jesus masculine and the Holy Spirit have no human qualities at all?

I am a secular humanist, not Christian. I declare non-denominational in the religion category.
The philosophy or life stance of secular humanism (alternatively known by some adherents as Humanism, specifically with a capital H to distinguish it from other forms of humanism) embraces human reason, ethics, social justice and philosophical naturalism, while specifically rejecting religious dogma, supernaturalism, pseudoscience or superstition as the basis of morality and decision making.[1][2][3]

It posits that human beings are capable of being ethical and moral without religion or a god. It does not, however, assume that humans are either inherently evil or innately good, nor does it present humans as being superior to nature. Rather, the humanist life stance emphasizes the unique responsibility facing humanity and the ethical consequences of human decisions. Fundamental to the concept of secular humanism is the strongly held viewpoint that ideology—be it religious or political—must be thoroughly examined by each individual and not simply accepted or rejected on faith. Along with this, an essential part of secular humanism is a continually adapting search for truth, primarily through science and philosophy. Many Humanists derive their moral codes from a philosophy of utilitarianism, ethical naturalism or evolutionary ethics, and some advocate a science of morality.

God-Incarnate was human, that is what the term “Incarnate” means, that God became One of us and that He was both human and Divine, not 50/50 but 100/100 just as we are 100/100 from our moms and dads.

The Holy Spirit did not become Incarnate so the Holy Spirit does not and never did have any “human qualities”.

Who is referred to as God the Father is neither a Male, a Female nor an It and has no “human qualities” either since God the Father never became Incarnate.

God Is a Trinity yet One and even tho I have met Dad and I have met the Holy Spirit Who revealed to me that the Catholic Eucharist Is Jesus, I would be the first to say that I can not explain the Trinity, It just Is.

 

[nmgauss]

God-Incarnate was human, that is what the term “Incarnate” means, that God became One of us and that He was both human and Divine, not 50/50 but 100/100 just as we are 100/100 from our moms and dads.

The Holy Spirit did not become Incarnate so the Holy Spirit does not and never did have any “human qualities”.

Who is referred to as God the Father is neither a Male, a Female nor an It and has no “human qualities” either since God the Father never became Incarnate.

God Is a Trinity yet One and even tho I have met Dad and I have met the Holy Spirit Who revealed to me that the Catholic Eucharist Is Jesus, I would be the first to say that I can not explain the Trinity, It just Is.

The word “incarnate” means not in the flesh. Thus the Holy Spirit and God are incarnate and thus not human. Since Jesus was human, he was carnate.

 

[LilyM]

The word “incarnate” means not in the flesh. Thus the Holy Spirit and God are incarnate and thus not human. Since Jesus was human, he was carnate.

The word ‘incarnate’ means to obtain a human form - ie become human - as a simple check of a dictionary will show you.

 

[Tom_Baum]

The word “incarnate” means not in the flesh. Thus the Holy Spirit and God are incarnate and thus not human. Since Jesus was human, he was carnate.

incarnate

— adj

1. possessing bodily form, esp the human form: a devil incarnate
2. personified or typified: stupidity incarnate
3. (esp of plant parts) flesh-coloured or pink

— vb

1. to give a bodily or concrete form to
2. to be representative or typical of

You are wrong about what the word “incarnate” means, the Incarnation of God refers to God becoming One of us, it doesn’t matter whether one believes that God became Incarnate or not, this has no bearing on the meaning of the term.

Origin:
1350–1400; late Middle English < Late Latin incarnātus past participle of incarnāre to make into flesh, equivalent to in- in-2 + carn- flesh (see carnal) + -ātus -ate1

as in (in the flesh)

 

[nmgauss]

The word ‘incarnate’ means to obtain a human form - ie become human - as a simple check of a dictionary will show you.

I was confusing it with “uncarnate”, a word tossed about at my discussion group along with “incorporeal”. Thanks for the correction.

 

[po18guy]

Since we have recently heard the Gospel according to Matthew, I’m not quite clear on something.
Matthew lists all the names of the generations from Abraham to David, to show us the lineage, and it finishes with Joseph.
Joseph wasn’t the biological father of Jesus, God was. Mary was the biological mother of Jesus.
Is Mary’s lineage included? There are so many names, I get lost in it.

Saint Paul, who was not an eyewitness, but received direct revelation, tells us in the beginning of his greatest letter, Romans, that the Christ was descended from the line of David.

Romans 1:1-3

It is Paul who writes; a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be his apostle, and set apart to preach the gospel of God. 2 That gospel, promised long ago by means of his prophets in the holy scriptures, 3 tells us of his Son, descended, in respect of his human birth, from the line of David

 

[Tom_Baum]

Saint Paul, who was not an eyewitness, but received direct revelation, tells us in the beginning of his greatest letter, Romans, that the Christ was descended from the line of David.

Romans 1:1-3

That is what Paul said but he didn’t say that he got a direct revelation concerning this, however, simpleas was asking about the Gospel of Matthew and “The Genealogy of Jesus” described in Matthew which is really the genealogy of Joseph who I think of as Jesus’s foster father who was picked out of all of humanity to be God-Incarnate’s earthly dad to raise, protect and teach Jesus.

 

[po18guy]

That is what Paul said but he didn’t say that he got a direct revelation concerning this, however, simpleas was asking about the Gospel of Matthew and “The Genealogy of Jesus” described in Matthew which is really the genealogy of Joseph who I think of as Jesus’s foster father who was picked out of all of humanity to be God-Incarnate’s earthly dad to raise, protect and teach Jesus.

I believe that there is no direct, written evidence that Mary is from the line of David - thus no direct evidence that Jesus fulfilled this particular prophecy. We must rely on the prophets, the fulfillment of prophecy, the fragmentary NT scriptures we do have, all backed up by the magisterium of the Church.

 

[nmgauss]

I believe that there is no direct, written evidence that Mary is from the line of David - thus no direct evidence that Jesus fulfilled this particular prophecy. We must rely on the prophets, the fulfillment of prophecy, the fragmentary NT scriptures we do have, all backed up by the magisterium of the Church.

Since Jesus was a Jew, lineage comes through the father. Since God is not human, He could not have been of the House of David. But Joseph was of the House of David. He would be a perfect vehicle to donate his sperm to continue the lineage of the House of David.

 

[po18guy]

OK, so now we’ve heard the authoritative opinion from Mr. Negative. I guess we can close this thread!

 

[ericc]

Moreover, lineage never passed through a woman. (See if you can find an exception in scripture).

Numbers 27:1-11

 

[glendab]

Hello Tom. Nice of you to share your thoughts.

God did not reveal God to us as a Man, God revealed God-Incarnate to us as a Man.

God is neither a Male, a Female nor an it even tho God-Incarnate was/is a Male.

Actually, God Is a Being of Love in that Love is not an attribute of God but is God’s Very Being.

While nm Gauss as a secular humanist is free to believe anything he or she chooses, you as a Catholic aren’t. Have you not read the Creed you profess at Mass on Sunday’s?

You don’t understand your own faith. We profess that Jesus Christ, the Son of Man is a man. We profess that the Father is that - a Father, and only a man can be a father. Why am I defending Jesus’ gender to a Catholic? You are supposed to believe this. Huh? Or are you engaging in gender-bending mental gymnastics to please some feminists in your life?

If Jesus Christ was to appear to you as He did to both St. Faustina and St. Francis of Assisi, would you still say He isn’t a man?

Sorry if I offend but this is silliness.

Glenda

 

[glendab]

Oh dear Tom! I’m beginning to worry about you:

… it doesn’t matter whether one believes that God became Incarnate or not,

Yes it does matter Tom. You simply must believe this to be a Catholic. It is part of what you swear to each and every Sunday in the Creed when you say “amen” after reciting it. Don’t give your word if you don’t believe it.

Glenda

 

[Tom_Baum]

Hello Tom. Nice of you to share your thoughts.

While nm Gauss as a secular humanist is free to believe anything he or she chooses, you as a Catholic aren’t. Have you not read the Creed you profess at Mass on Sunday’s?

You don’t understand your own faith. We profess that Jesus Christ, the Son of Man is a man. We profess that the Father is that - a Father, and only a man can be a father. Why am I defending Jesus’ gender to a Catholic? You are supposed to believe this. Huh? Or are you engaging in gender-bending mental gymnastics to please some feminists in your life?

If Jesus Christ was to appear to you as He did to both St. Faustina and St. Francis of Assisi, would you still say He isn’t a man?

Sorry if I offend but this is silliness.

Glenda

Read what I wrote, I did say that Jesus was a Man.

Even tho we refer to God the Father as Father, God has no gender, God is NOT a human being, only the Second Person of the Trinity became human in the Incarnation, God the Father and the Holy Spirit did NOT become Incarnate.

The Second Person of the Trinity became One of us, the First and Third Persons of the Trinity did NOT become One of us.

The Apostles’s Creed: I believe in God, the Father Almighty, Creator of heaven and earth; and in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord: Who was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary; suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died and was buried. He descended into hell; the third day He rose again from the dead; He ascended into heaven, is seated at the right hand of God the Father Almighty; from thence He shall come to judge the living and the dead. I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Holy Catholic Church, the communion of Saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and life everlasting. Amen.

By the way, do you believe that Jesus “descended into hell”?

It says this quite clearly in the Apostles’s Creed.

Also, I “know” what I know and I believe what I believe and I am trying to do what God has chosen for me to do.

 

[Tom_Baum]

Oh dear Tom! I’m beginning to worry about you:

Yes it does matter Tom. You simply must believe this to be a Catholic. It is part of what you swear to each and every Sunday in the Creed when you say “amen” after reciting it. Don’t give your word if you don’t believe it.

Glenda

You copied, “Originally Posted by Tom Baum
… it doesn’t matter whether one believes that God became Incarnate or not,”

I wrote, “You are wrong about what the word “incarnate” means, the Incarnation of God refers to God becoming One of us, it doesn’t matter whether one believes that God became Incarnate or not, this has no bearing on the meaning of the term.”

Read what I wrote and what you said I wrote and your comment concerning what you said I wrote and, to say the least, it is quite the twistation of what I wrote, isn’t it?

I said that the meaning of a word has no bearing on whether or not someone believes that it happened.

 

[JamesTheJust]

Read what I wrote, I did say that Jesus was a Man.

Even tho we refer to God the Father as Father, God has no gender, God is NOT a human being, only the Second Person of the Trinity became human in the Incarnation, God the Father and the Holy Spirit did NOT become Incarnate.

God has revealed all three Persons of Himself as masculine. It’s the Father, not the Mother. And the Holy Spirit is always referred to as masculine in Scripture.

By the way, do you believe that Jesus “descended into hell”?

It says this quite clearly in the Apostles’s Creed.

Tom, this clause is referring to the fact that Christ, in the three days between His Death and His Resurrection, freed the righteous souls who had passed before Him from Purgatory and opened to them the Gates of Heaven (1 Peter 3:19). All Catholics believe this.

 

[Tom_Baum]

God has revealed all three Persons of Himself as masculine. It’s the Father, not the Mother. And the Holy Spirit is always referred to as masculine in Scripture.

Tom, this clause is referring to the fact that Christ, in the three days between His Death and His Resurrection, freed the righteous souls who had passed before Him from Purgatory and opened to them the Gates of Heaven (1 Peter 3:19). All Catholics believe this.

God does refer to Himself as a hen gathering His chicks under the spread of His Wings and even tho this is a Feminine reference, I do not think that God means that He is a member of the “chicken” species.

God does have to use “human language” when He speaks to us in words but that doesn’t mean that the human language is literal.

Just because Jesus went to this “abode of the dead” does not mean that this was/is the only thing that happened concerning God-Incarnate’s work on the cross.

 

[JamesTheJust]

God does refer to Himself as a hen gathering His chicks under the spread of His Wings and even tho this is a Feminine reference, I do not think that God means that He is a member of the “chicken” species.

Where? Is this in Scripture? I’ve never heard of a passage in which God calls Himself a chicken.

Just because Jesus went to this “abode of the dead” does not mean that this was/is the only thing that happened concerning God-Incarnate’s work on the cross.

Yes, of course. His actions on the Cross atoned for our sins. But the fact that He freed the righteous souls in Purgatory is a dogma of the Church. Are you implying that you don’t believe in it?

 

[nmgauss]

There is no more justification for God being masculine than for a ship to be feminine. Why is it that “Fatherland” is what Germans use to describe their country, but Russians use the term “Mother Russia”? Is Germany masculine and Russia feminine?

Perhaps this is a tradition handed down by the pagans in the region whose chief gods included Zeus and Apollo.

"The Catechism of the Catholic Church #239 specifically states that “God is neither man nor woman: he is God”.

“Classical western philosophy believes that God lacks a literal sex because it would be impossible for God to have a body (a prerequisite for sex).”

The latter implies that God needed sex in order to impregnate the Virgin Mary. After all, how else can a haploid masculine baby be conceived?

 

[JamesTheJust]

There is no more justification for God being masculine than for a ship to be feminine. Why is it that “Fatherland” is what Germans use to describe their country, but Russians use the term “Mother Russia”? Is Germany masculine and Russia feminine?

Perhaps this is a tradition handed down by the pagans in the region whose chief gods included Zeus and Apollo.

"The Catechism of the Catholic Church #239 specifically states that “God is neither man nor woman: he is God”.

“Classical western philosophy believes that God lacks a literal sex because it would be impossible for God to have a body (a prerequisite for sex).”

The latter implies that God needed sex in order to impregnate the Virgin Mary. After all, how else can a haploid masculine baby be conceived?

Yes, God is transcendent, but He has revealed Himself to us as masculine.