Jesus lied.

[erikd]

This was misspeaking on my part. I was thinking along the lines of “my prayers have been answered,” which is a cliche screamed when someone gets pregnant in a movie.

What I meant was that the Bible does in no way say “God will consider your prayers and decide yes or no.” It says that God will grant you whatever you ask, so long as you worship him. If there is a quote that says God will decide yes or no, please feel free to share. I’d love to discuss it.

If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask for whatever you want and it will be done for you. John 15:7

Hippyprincess:

Throughout this entire chapter, Jesus tells His disciples that if they follow His teachings, they will bear much fruit. This is a reference to the fact that we all have free will and our bodies are telling us to sin and stray from God. Yet, with the guidance of God, we can abide in Him without sin constantly tearing us apart from God. The chapter is about the vine and the branches and it states “just as a branch cannot bear fruit on its own unless it remains on the vine, so neither can you unless you remain in me; I am the vine, you are the branches. Whoever remains in me and I in him, will bear much fruit, because without me you can do nothing.” (St. John 15:4-5) The entire chapter is about having an ability to serve God without the interference of sin constantly hindering us. With God, we have the ability to cast the bad aside to make the good come to fruition. This is summarized by verses 9-10: “As the Father loves me, so I also love you. Remain in my love. If you keep my commandments, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commandments and remain in His love.” These passages are all about serving God and having the ability to do His will for the good of all people.

 

[Earnest_Bunbury]

Catholicism doesn’t use proof-texts to answer other proof-texts of scripture. This is just one opinion of what is said against another opinion and gets nowhere. If it did, we would all be protestants by now as the method of protestantism is the proof-text, and the method chosen for battle favors the one who invented it.

The method of interpretation used in Catholicism is Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture to get to the truth as Jesus never wrote anything and told the apostles to teach in His name.

I am sorry for your suffering as your grandmother suffers the pains of cancer and, as we all must someday, death. Suffering is the lot of human nature as has been since the fall in the garden and the loss of grace that perfects human nature in God. Catholic theology made me see the sense of the sayings of Jesus and of the whole Bible, which some protestant theology throws out or glosses over. I’m 46 and can move around very little due to several back problems causing great pain and suffering. Now a convert, no family or friends left (who wants the trouble of watching a friend suffer?), but inner peace of grace afforded by God. This is what your grandmother has in family praying for her. Praying for her suffering to have meaning is truly praying for her.

Suffering has little meaning in protestant theology as the sufferings of Jesus paid for all our sins, past and future (free will opposes this, and Calvinist “Predestination” claims it), and thus if we have faith (alone), we will avoid suffering. This is wrong theology in that Jesus and Paul both relate suffering to all sin of the human family, not just a cause and effect afflicting the individual alone. Jesus to Paul was “Why are you persecuting Me?” when Paul was persecuting Christians. This is the Church family that “me and Jesus” denies. Suffering united with Jesus is union with Him for the good of the Church, His Body. It takes faith to understand and to do, as we are the branches and He the vine we can do nothing without Him.

Jesus was speaking to those who could hear Him, those who wanted what He offers. Answering wishes about things that don’t matter, cars, money, power, is the same as asking for more time in this world which is not our home, face to face with God is. Pray for your families strength, union in face of adversity, uniting faith and humble love, along with your grandmothers suffering in union with Christ and this He will answer, because He promised it.

 

[bbarrick8383]

Today I received an interesting email full of Bible quotes demonstrating how Jesus lied. He says, quite clearly, that whatever you pray for shall be granted, as long as you have true faith. Even if you pray that mountains will be tossed into the sea, God will fulfill your wish. Obviously, this is not true at all.

Here are the quotes:

Maybe you should try using common sense, intellectual honesty and history to understand it better. Instead of believeing that you are smart enough to outsmart 2000 years of people who have spent hours studying and contemplating scripture, history and fact. I’ve come to the conclusion that most agnostics and athiests have egos so strong that it is almost a waste of time discussing anything with them, especially religion and politics.

1. And Jesus answered and said to them, "Truly I say to you, if you have faith and do not doubt, you will not only do what was done to the fig tree, but even if you say to this mountain, `Be taken up and cast into the sea,’ it will happen. “And all things you ask in prayer, believing, you will receive.” (Matthew 21:21-22 NAS)

Honestly, if you want to take this scripture as literally meaning that people could pick up a mountain and toss it into the nearest sea then the discussion should stop there. And you should reread what I wrote above.

1. Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks, receives; and the one who seeks, finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened. (Matthew 7:7-8 NAB)

Notice that it ends at the door will be opened. To me this means many things, for one your prayers answer might be right under your nose, you just have not stepped in the open door to accept it. Secondly, in order to get what you NEED you must accept God wholeheartedly without a doubt, which means you knocked on the door, God sees in your heart that you fully mean it, he opens and you show him you mean it by stepping inside. We are not worthy of answered prayers until this happens.

1. Again I say to you, that if two of you agree on earth about anything that they may ask, it shall be done for them by My Father who is in heaven. For where two or three have gathered together in My name, I am there in their midst. (Matthew 18:19-20 NAS)

If a prayer doesnt come true in this case, then A. it wasnt needed B. somebody’s lacking (which we all are) C. the answer was there and nobody saw it.

1. Amen, I say to you, whoever says to this mountain, ‘Be lifted up and thrown into the sea,’ and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it shall be done for him. Therefore I tell you, all that you ask for in prayer, believe that you will receive it and it shall be yours. (Mark 11:24-25 NAB)

Again, same answer as the first one. But I would also have to ask, if you do not believe then how can you call anyone a liar?

1. And I tell you, ask and you will receive; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks, receives; and the one who seeks, finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened. (Luke 11:9-13 NAB)

Already answered.

1. And whatever you ask in my name, I will do, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If you ask anything of me in my name, I will do it. (John 14:13-14 NAB)

Again, if you do not believe then how can you know?

1. If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask for whatever you want and it will be done for you. (John 15:7 NAB)

Have you remained in faith? Nope. Have you kept the word? Nope. How do you call a liar that which you dont understand?

1. It was not you who chose me, but I who chose you and appointed you to go and bear fruit that will remain, so that whatever you ask the Father in my name he may give you. (John 15:16 NAB)

Maybe he chose you to post this, maybe he chose me to respond. Your understanding is limited to the physical, what you can hear, see, feel, touch and smell is real. Anything else must be a lie.

1. On that day you will not question me about anything. Amen, amen, I say to you, whatever you ask the Father in my name he will give you. Until now you have not asked anything in my name; ask and you will receive, so that your joy may be complete. (John 16:23-24 NAB)

On this day you question him.

The Bible does NOT say “God will consider your prayers, and act as he thinks appropriately.” It does not say “your prayers MIGHT be granted.” Jesus clearly states, with conviction, that anything you want shall be given to you.

Also, please don’t say “you can’t have everything you want.” Even if I did believe in God, and believed wishes were divinely granted, I would still think this is a bad idea. This would cause chaos, and just be a ridiculous expectation.

If you have any Bible quotes saying “prayers will be granted if God feels like it,” please let me know. This email interested me greatly because, according to Christianity, Jesus never sinned.

The Bible does say God will hear your prayers and give you what you NEED.

You cant have everything you want. Why not say it, it’s a given…and I hope you can understand that.

You quoted all the scripture you needed already to understand that God will grant prayers that are necessary for you to find him in this life. He is there, watching over you while you read this, hoping that you will look beyond your nose for him. This life is about finding God, not fighting cancer, not aborting a child at your convienence to make your life easier, not doing drugs to get away from it all. It’s about finding God, those who seek shall find, those who knock shall have the door opened for them, and those who enter will be embraced with open arms by the thousands of years of ancestory who came before you that found God as well.

You claim to be agnostic or atheist, do you think that you are smarter than your own grandmother? What about those before her, in your own family that have passed and found God, you outsmarted them didnt you? If only they knew what you knew, amiright?

 

[jmartini]

I am a long-time, pseudo believer (meaning that I thought there might be something out there, but not so certain that it was the Christian God, if this makes any sense). I would argue and argue with Christians to defend their faith in my own personal attempt to seek the truth. They would always end with the same argument, “you just have to have faith”. I would always ask, “why”…“why do I have to have faith”? The most convincing argument I ever heard, and the one that ultimately led me back to the Church was so simple, but so powerful to me: “what’s the harm in believing”? Everyone has different beliefs, everyone has different levels of faith–who are we to be so full of pride and ego that we are easily angered when someone else’s beliefs and faith levels do not match our own?

Because of that one argument, and perhaps God’s way of shaking my brain, I am now whole heartedly seeking communion with the Church. You don’t have to agree with me, you don’t have to think like me, and I can’t prove anyone else’s faith, I can’t prove the words of the Bible, but I can’t disprove them either. What’s the harm in believing? What’s the harm in allowing others to believe if it helps them deal with the atrocities of this world? I do not believe God, Jesus, or the Holy Spirit has ever committed one act of evil–I believe that evil occurs in the absence of the Blessed Trinity.

I have spent many many years slowly watching my heart harden and die–seeking God and seeking the Church has begun to re-open my heart and I am realizing joys in life that I thought were long gone–what’s the harm in this? For me, it’s not always easy to “believe” or to “have faith”; in fact, it’s quite difficult for me a lot of the time because of the nature of my thinking–I tend to think more with my head rather than my heart which is, in my opinion, the downfall of mankind. If we led our lives from the heart, we would never forget the Golden Rule–do unto others as you would have done unto you. We would not attempt to thrash others for their beliefs, we would try to help each other see the truth as we “understand” it. Do any of us really “know” the truth–I don’t think so, but I don’t see the harm in us sharing what we “believe” to be the truth and we all should be allowed to so long as it comes from the heart–meaning that we share what we believe out of love for one another.

My $0.02

 

[Kalos]

Hey Hippyprincess:
Thanks for a great question! I gotta get my brain in gear for this. I think you had some good answers already, and i hope i can add another key to the puzzle for you.
I’ll start with the “knock and it shall be opened” passage. I think the context of this is salvation. If the sinner will simply ask with a repentant heart, God will never turn him down. And i have never known the Lord to fail in this.
Now about the moving the mountain deal. What is a mountain? Is it not something that stands in your way and blocks your progress?Maybe your mountain is poverty, illness, or an addiction, or a crippling fear, or whatever. But notice that Jesus does not say to pray for it or to it. He says to speak to it! That means that a believer should use his own mustard seed faith to do things without asking God to do it for him. God gives spiritual authority to every believer and we use it by faith. I personally know this to be true. Since learning this two years ago, i kicked sickness out of my life and i have not had a cold or flue . If a soar throat starts, i just tell it that it has no right to be in me and it must go. This realy does work and i never get a flue shot. Befor this i used to have a lot of bad colds.
Now ther is another passage in John 15:7 that speaks of asking whatever you will, but the condition is that we abide. To abide means to “take up residence”. It is compared to a branch in a tree or vine. Now the branch doesn’t decide what kind of fruit to make. The tree determines that. This is a pretty deep parable and i can’t go into it now, but if your interested, the best book i know is “Secrets of the Vine” by Bruce Wilkinson.
Another book that could tell you much more about how God answers prayer would be any book by Smith Wigglesworth. He was known as the apostle of faith. I don’t think God ever said no to him except when his wife died. Smith wanted her back so much that he raised her from the dead, but he still had to agree to let her go back to the Lord. It was the greatest hurt of his life.
The teacher i learn the most from is Andrew Wommack. I realise you’d probably throw-up if you listened to a Christian preacher, but Andrew doesn;t preach, he just very calmly teaches and explains in a logical way. Just as I was writing this post, he started his teaching on Why everone is not Healed You can watch on the web at AWMI.net

 

[rciadan]

I know that the church teaches that Jesus would never lie, which is why this email interested me.

I invite you to disprove the quotes, because so far no one has yet.

I invite you to consider that the prayers of the one most affected by this situation, your mother, may be; in fact, being answered!
There is a thing known as “redemptive suffering”: that is suffering for the explicit purpose of saving souls. Paul tells us in the Scriptures, “Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up those things that are wanting of the sufferings of Christ, in my flesh, for his body, which is the church:” Many souls through the centuries even up to the present have and continue to fervently pray for the supreme grace of being allowed to join in the suffering of Christ for the salvation of souls! Many times it is offered for the souls in purgatory and often it is for the most loving purpose of all: to participate in the salvation of the souls most dear to them; spouses, sons, and, yes, daughers and grandchildren!
God so loved the world that he gave His only begotten Son, not to live for his friend, but to lay down His life! No greater love is there than this! It may well be that your mother;s prayers were answered in full! Maybe, being the wonderful lover of God (and you) that she is, she prayed to participate in the most effective way of all in your eventual salvation, redemptive suffering joined perfectly to the suffering of Christ on the Cross!
Now, if this be the case, then it must stand to reason that, if you or others were praying for the oppposite, and your mother;s prayers were answered, then yours may have been answered in the negative. Your mother is in the arms of her beloved, looking into the very eyes of her groom, Christ Himself, where love is suffering and suffering is love in ways that only a Christian can fathom…

 

[StrawberryJam]

I see you are a unbeliever. How much do you know about the Bible? Do you believe it’s the word of God? See 2 Tim.3:16, 2Tim.4:4-5

I really haven’t too much to say about what you think. We don’t of a base from which we can discuss anything religious.
I will pray for you.

May the Lord help you out of your unbief,
jean

Why cant the Lord help her grandmother now? Seems a bit more urgent than blaming the OP for unbelief, unless you think God is punishing the grandmother?

 

[Earnest_Bunbury]

Why cant the Lord help her grandmother now? Seems a bit more urgent than blaming the OP for unbelief, unless you think God is punishing the grandmother?

Union with Jesus is union in the Cross, sacrifice and suffering. Not wanting suffering is why protestants don’t have fasting or sacrifice in their theology and not wanting to have any constraints is why agnostics and atheists are unbelievers, in lieu of ignorance of the whole subject.

The Cross of Christ is for every believer, in some way. We will all die, how we cooperate with it in God’s Grace is determinate on our perseverance, a fruit of the Holy Spirit. Jesus saying “My yoke is light and my burden easy” means nothing if Jesus, as in protestant theology, doesn’t request you to take up your Cross daily and follow Him, as He did.

“Now I rejoice in what was suffered for you, and I fill up in my flesh what is still lacking in regard to Christ’s afflictions, for the sake of his body, which is the church.” Paul isn’t running away from the cross but trusts God in his suffering.

In the end our home is with God and death is the way there. How you go through it is relative to ones state of grace, available in the sacraments, and acceptance of that cross given you by God: Philippians 1:29 “For it has been granted to you on behalf of Christ not only to believe on Him, but also to suffer for Him”.

Luther either didn’t trust God or couldn’t suffer any more and had to through out the Bible passages he didn’t like, or both. Either way it doesn’t bode well for protestants when they do get sick and their fellow “protesters” ask why you don’t have enough faith to be healed.

 

[davidv]

The Bible simplifies it for us, however.
There are few ways to reinterpret most of these quotes. Just as the Bible comes right out and says “homosexuality is an abomination,” it also directly states “Ask and it will be given to you.” Funny how some simple, direct statements are taken literally while others are not.

So far, nobody has been able to provide Biblical evidence for God’s selectivity. If you have any Bible quotes, please let me know.

This just proves my point.
Your prayers will not be granted, even if you are of strong faith. You will suffer.

All of these arguments are age-old. Most arguments on CA are age old, it doesn’t make them irrelevant.

I’m not attention-seeking, I’m very interested in theology, ethics, and religious theory. Jesus’s teachings have gone directly against what has actually occured.

Why is that, do you suppose? I would suggest it is precisely because humans, individually and as groups have decided they know better than God, and do things their own way.

Since God will not lie and Jesus is God, then why would Jesus say something untrue?

He did not and cannot. If you think He did, then you misunderstood what He said.

I’m wondering this myself. Just some food for thought.

 

[hippyprincess]

All of the verses you have are the same message repeated.
Yes, in short, believers will be rewarded, because they believe even when they don’t feel our Lord’s presence with them. But they also believe in the good times when He has revealed Himself to them.

The purpose of the verses repeating was to make it clear that the Bible DOES say that you can have “whatever you want” so long as you have faith. Also, I’m not talking about moral, spiritual, or heavenly reward. I’m talking about the granting of all wishes, which Jesus has promised as a reward.

 

[hippyprincess]

Hippyprincess:

Throughout this entire chapter, Jesus tells His disciples that if they follow His teachings, they will bear much fruit. This is a reference to the fact that we all have free will and our bodies are telling us to sin and stray from God. Yet, with the guidance of God, we can abide in Him without sin constantly tearing us apart from God. The chapter is about the vine and the branches and it states “just as a branch cannot bear fruit on its own unless it remains on the vine, so neither can you unless you remain in me; I am the vine, you are the branches. Whoever remains in me and I in him, will bear much fruit, because without me you can do nothing.” (St. John 15:4-5) The entire chapter is about having an ability to serve God without the interference of sin constantly hindering us. With God, we have the ability to cast the bad aside to make the good come to fruition. This is summarized by verses 9-10: “As the Father loves me, so I also love you. Remain in my love. If you keep my commandments, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commandments and remain in His love.” These passages are all about serving God and having the ability to do His will for the good of all people.

But how does this account for the empty promise? If anything, I think the vine quote just proves my point: Jesus taught that having faith in God would reap benefits. He says that God will grant every prayer, as long as you are of the faith.

 

[erikd]

But how does this account for the empty promise? If anything, I think the vine quote just proves my point: Jesus taught that having faith in God would reap benefits. He says that God will grant every prayer, as long as you are of the faith.

It is not an empty promise since we don’t really know what is best for us. As another person in this thread said, maybe God is answering your grandmother’s prayers. When Pope John Paul II died, his last words were “Let’s go to the Father.” My father in law who is also ill with terminal cancer (post 19) is not praying to make the cancer go away, but rather to ensure that his family is well taken care of even after he is gone. He has accepted his fate and is looking for help for his own family not for himself. I, myself, and praying that his cancer goes away, but I understand that it probably won’t. This is just life taking its course and it’s something we need to learn to accept as death will approach all of us one day. If the promise you speak of always tended to our every need, we would all live forever. And yet, life has to end at some point.

I would advise you to talk to your grandmother (if you have not already done so) and find out what it is that you can do for her in order to make her wishes come to fruition. My father in law wanted to be close to God but can’t always make it to Mass. So I became a Extraordinary Minister of Holy Communion and brought Mass to him. This brings him closer to God and prepares him for what’s about to happen both mentally and spiritually. Perhaps your own grandmother has similar wishes, as many ill elderly people have. The focus should be on her not on your own beliefs or lack of. Focus on her needs and wants and deliver to the best of your abilities what she needs. Remember, you said that she is a Christian. I would be willing to bet, that even with this illness that she is facing, she would not blame God, she would not lose her faith, and she would encourage you to prosper in the faith not outside of it. Ask her.

 

[hippyprincess]

Maybe you should try using common sense, intellectual honesty and history to understand it better. Instead of believeing that you are smart enough to outsmart 2000 years of people who have spent hours studying and contemplating scripture, history and fact. I’ve come to the conclusion that most agnostics and athiests have egos so strong that it is almost a waste of time discussing anything with them, especially religion and politics.

I’m not trying to best anybody here. I’m not trying to outsmart the posters, and I’m surely not trying to outsmart scholars. I figured that the people on this forum would be quite familiar with scripture, so if anything, I’m consulting the scholars. And insofar, none have been able to produce a teaching of Jesus, or even obscure New Testament passage, that says “God will consider your prayers.”

Honestly, if you want to take this scripture as literally meaning that people could pick up a mountain and toss it into the nearest sea then the discussion should stop there. And you should reread what I wrote above.

That’s not how I interpreted at all, and being presumptuous isn’t goin to get us anywhere.
Here is my interpretation: In ancient times, the idea of moving a mountain was absurd and unrealistic. Impossible, to say the least. The quote means that any “mountain of a problem” no matter how large, will be solved by God, and simply tossed away. Just as mountains and problems seem impossible to budge, God can make everything possible.

otice that it ends at the door will be opened. To me this means many things, for one your prayers answer might be right under your nose, you just have not stepped in the open door to accept it. Secondly, in order to get what you NEED you must accept God wholeheartedly without a doubt, which means you knocked on the door, God sees in your heart that you fully mean it, he opens and you sow him you mean it by stepping inside. We are not worthy of answered prayers until this happens.

Jesus says that the door WILL be opened. He says that every prayer WILL be granted, whatever it is. Not “you ask for something and get something else.”

If a prayer doesnt come true in this case, then A. it wasnt needed B. somebody’s lacking (which we all are) C. the answer was there and nobody saw it.

Ah, but you just responded in a way what isn’t consistent with Jesus’s teachings. Jesus doesn’t teach that you will only get the necessary things. He doesn’t say you will only get what you need. He says that you will get whatever you want, only if you remain in him and pray to God. If you can find the bible quote where it says you will only get what God determines you need, and he will answer no to your prayers, please share. I’ve been looking for it the whole time.

Again, same answer as the first one. But I would also have to ask, if you do not believe then how can you call anyone a liar?

WHAT are you talking about? A lie is a lie, no matter what religion you are: intentional deceit. If someone is wearing a green hat and says “I am wearing a red hat.” That is a lie. It’s irrelevant that I’m atheist or not, a lie is a lie.

Again, if you do not believe then how can you know?

How can I know what?

Have you remained in faith? Nope. Have you kept the word? Nope. How do you call a liar that which you dont understand?

No, I am not of the faith. I don’t believe in deities, especially the Abrahamic God, which you worship. I’m not trying to pass myself off as believing, or apply them to myself. Surely there must have been a person of true faith that’s prayed for something. I’m not talking about myself, and you don’t have to make it a personal vendetta.

You claim to be agnostic or atheist, do you think that you are smarter than your own grandmother? What about those before her, in your own family that have passed and found God, you outsmarted them didnt you? If only they knew what you knew, amiright?

Again, I’m not trying to outsmart anyone. I believe my grandmother is erroneous in her faith, but I love her enough to support her decision. If her faith causes her to feel comforted, than it is a good thing for her. I’m not trying to convert you, not do I think I’m a better human because I’m an atheist. I simply am without belief in a deity. I’m not gonna talk down to anyone because.

 

[jmartini]

Does the Bible ever say “when” God will answer prayers? Is it not possible that some prayers, seemingly unanswered, will be fulfilled in our next life? The ultimate, most selfless way to view this whole topic is from “Our Father”: let God’s will be done on earth as it is in heaven. God knows all, sees all, is all; however, we as humans were gifted with “free will” and with this gift comes great responsibility. We choose God, or we reject him, or perhaps we choose some things that we like and reject other things that do not make sense to us or that are too hard for us to believe. God does no evil thing, we as free-willed humans in the absence of God and/or under the influence of darker forces do evil.

I cannot say anything that will make the grief of losing your loved one any better–I am not even close to being that smart. I do, however, believe that prayers are answered and will be answered in God’s own time. I believe that there are many many things here on earth that we will never understand until we are in His presence. And I believe, due to our own self indulgences, we pray for more than we need without taking into consideration what others need or what God needs. Prayers do get answered, just maybe not on our clock and perhaps in ways that we cannot fully understand.

We will suffer in this life, on this planet; some, seemingly more than others. I have suffered, I have lost loved ones (my father got ran off the road and was killed while riding his bicycle home from work while serving in the Air Force in Turkey when I was six years old)–I have had my struggles with faith. But in the end, I have resolved to simply understand that there are many things I will never understand until I am kneeling at the feet of our dear Lord. I have prayed and have received readily identifiable answers to those prayers; I have also prayed and seemingly have yet to receive an answer but, in my opinion, God gives me all that I “need” which I also believe He knows best. Have you ever prayed for something and then later realized that what you prayed for you didn’t even want anymore, or that what you prayed for might hurt someone else, or that might not be in your best interest in the long run, or that what you prayed for goes against God’s will? I have, but thankfully God does know best–He will answer when He feels the time is right–we just have to be willing to listen.

 

[Cachonga]

hippyprincess:

Today I received an interesting email full of Bible quotes demonstrating how Jesus lied. He says, quite clearly, that whatever you pray for shall be granted, as long as you have true faith. Even if you pray that mountains will be tossed into the sea, God will fulfill your wish. Obviously, this is not true at all.

This is a very deep subject. Sadly, I haven’t seen much that was helpful to you (if you truly are seeking the truth, as you say you are). I will assume you have a Bible (or at least access to one), so I won’t write out the verses (in the interest of saving space). I would first address the Scripture quotes raised. (BTW – I am using the YLT version, so the verses are a little different in places.)

Matt 21:21-22 should actually be read beginning at verse 18. First thing to note is that Jesus was talking to His disciples (who were believers), not the crowd (which included unbelievers). Second thing to look at are the prerequisites for answered prayer (have faith, do not doubt).

Matt 7:7-8 is a “snippet” from a much larger discourse (going back to 5:1 and continuing on to 7:29) to a crowd (which included unbelievers). To break down the verses in question, I would put it like this – Ask in prayer (remember the prerequisites found in Matt 21:18-22 above); Seek God and His righteousness (Matt 6:33); Knock and God will open up opportunities for you (see 1 Cor 16:9, 2 Cor 2:12, and Col 4:3).

Matt 18:19-20 is again addressed to the Disciples (it also begins at verse 1), and the prerequisites of Matt 18-22 still apply.

Mark 11:24-25 is a parallel passage to Matt 21:18-22. Again, notice that Jesus is talking to His Disciples, and the prerequisites are made clear (have faith [verse 22] and don’t doubt [verse23]). Notice that “believing” is mentioned in the last verse (24 in the YLT, 25 in the NAB).

Luke 11:9-13 is a parallel to Matt 7:7-8. Here, it is addressed to His Disciples instead of the crowd (Luke 11:1-13). This is not a contradiction to what was noted in Matt 5:1-7:29. Jesus taught equally (see John 18:20). Since this is a parallel to Matt 7:7-8, the response there applies here as well.

John 14:13-14 again has Jesus addressing His Disciples. The prerequisites (have faith, doubt not) still apply.

John 15:7 is a continuation from John 14:13-14 (Jesus is still addressing His Disciples). Here He speaks of “remaining in me” and “my words remain in you”. These are not new or different prerequisites, but an indication of how our relationship with God works (see verse 5).

John 15:16 is a continuation of John 15:7 (and before). Jesus is still addressing His Disciples, and the prerequisites still apply.

John 16:23-24 is (still) a continuation of John 15:16, is still addressed to the Disciples, and the prerequisites still apply.

hippyprincess:

The Bible does NOT say “God will consider your prayers, and act as he thinks appropriately.” It does not say “your prayers MIGHT be granted.” Jesus clearly states, with conviction, that anything you want shall be given to you.

Also, please don’t say “you can’t have everything you want.” Even if I did believe in God, and believed wishes were divinely granted, I would still think this is a bad idea. This would cause chaos, and just be a ridiculous expectation.

If you have any Bible quotes saying “prayers will be granted if God feels like it,” please let me know. This email interested me greatly because, according to Christianity, Jesus never sinned.

I think someone mentioned James 4:3, but I would suggest reading the entire chapter. Here we can see some reasons for unanswered prayers (basically, the prerequisites are missing). I would also point out that Psalm 37:4 has been greatly misused (especially by many Evangelicals). It was very popular back in the 80’s to “name it and claim it”. There were people making minimum wage who would walk into a Cadillac dealership, place their hands on the most expensive car on the lot, and “claim it in Jesus name”. That’s ridiculous! Speaking for myself (and I believe this is the proper way to interpret this scripture, though I am by no means infallible), as I draw closer to God, I become more pleasing to Him. I am more pleasing to Him because my desires become His desires! I want to please God, and God gives me the desires (the means) to please Him. It is similar to a child who wants to be like his dad. He will imitate everything he sees his dad do (dress, mannerisms, speech, etc…).

I hope I have been able to answer your questions. I would like to offer some real life examples of answered prayer. Many years ago I had a motorcycle accident and nearly lost my leg. About 1/3 of the Tibia was crushed and had to be removed (along with about 1/3 of the skin on my leg). I had a metal plate and 28 screws holding what was left of the bone in place (I can honestly say my leg was screwed up). At one point during my recovery the doctors took an x-ray and said they would probably have to do a bone graft, taking some bone from my hip to put in my leg. I felt I had been through enough! My prayer went something like this – “Heavenly Father, I don’t want to have a bone graft! I feel like I’ve been through enough. I know the bone needs calcium. I also know that the nutrients we ingest are evenly distributed throughout the body. However, I will take in as much calcium as I can, and will trust that You will put it where it needs to go in order to strengthen the bone so I don’t need a graft. I ask this in Jesus name, and I thank you for allowing me to keep my leg! Amen”. The next few days I drank all the milk I could get, ate ice cream, broccoli, and anything else that had calcium. The next time they took an x-ray, the doctor was surprised and said I didn’t need a bone graft.

Another example comes years later. We have had a lot of pets over the years (I imagine this is true of a lot of people). At one point we had a full-blood, registered Doberman (we just didn’t trim his ears or tail). One day he was kidnapped while we were out. We reported it to the police. My wife prayed to (of all things) the dead horse of some saint (if you’ve ever seen “sacred” candles, it’s the one with the Roman soldier cutting his cloak with his sword for the beggar. The soldier is on the horse). We didn’t live far from the Shrine in San Juan, TX. She prayed to the horse and promised to take some hay to the Shrine for it if it would lead Toro home. I prayed something like “Heavenly Father, please reunite us with Toro. I ask this in Jesus name. Amen”. A couple weeks later we got a call from the pound, and we were reunited. Whose prayer was answered?

<continued…>

 

[Cachonga]

In conclusion, I would say that the Scripture makes it clear that God will answer prayers of believers when the prerequisites are met (and I see no exception to that). There is no promise to answer any prayers of unbelievers, or for anyone who does not meet the prerequisites. I pray that as you truly seek truth, God will reveal Himself to you (see John 14:16), that He may open your eyes and reveal Himself to you and call you by name! I pray this to my Heavenly Father, in Jesus name. Amen!

PAX!

 

[lil_flower_luv]

The purpose of the verses repeating was to make it clear that the Bible DOES say that you can have “whatever you want” so long as you have faith. Also, I’m not talking about moral, spiritual, or heavenly reward. I’m talking about the granting of all wishes, which Jesus has promised as a reward.

No, not, whatever you want, but "whatever God wants" (St. Gianna Molla)
If we do His will, He will not let us be unhappy in this life. Yeah, we won’t get all the things we want, but we will get what we need from Him in all His goodness.

 

[juliamajor]

this is old and tired-I’ve heard athis palaver from agnostics and atheists for a Looooong time .All I can say isZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

 

[dnar]

Common sense is definitely going to have to be used here. Jesus did say ask and you would receive, but we are also taught that the wages of sin is death.

Death and suffering will come to us all, because we are all sinners, everyone of us.

Just because someone is a believer in God does not mean they will not suffer. God himself suffered tremendously, death by crucifixion.

I don’t understand why you think just because someone gets sick, or is dying of a disease that Jesus lied just because they are not healed right when YOU want them to be. A little selfish.

If your grandmother is as righteous as you say, then her reward is waiting her and she knows this. She has lived her life the way she has because of the treasures awaiting her in Heaven.

When you ask God to heal your grandmother and then she dies, if she was a believer in him , your prayer was answered. She was healed, in the best possible way. She has everlasting life in Heaven.

I bet she is very saddened to know that you are an atheist however. Because grandmother knows that unless something changes, you will not spend eternity with her, you will be away from her.

 

[lizziebits]

Hippyprincess – Have you ever read The Problem of Pain by C.S. Lewis? From the discussion (and please correct me if I’m wrong) it seems like ultimately your question is that if God is all good, how can he allow people, most especially those faithful to him, suffer?

If that is, in fact, a good distillation of your question, I know that Lewis spends a lot of time discussing the issue. I’m not sure I’ve ever read the whole of that particular book of his, but I love a lot of his writing.