Jesus nonviolent?

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Michaeljc4

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I recently read The God of Peace by Fr. John Dear. Fr. Dear makes the claim–backed up by the Gospels–that Jesus was the perfect example of nonviolence, and as a result, we should all be nonviolent, too. While I admire Fr. Dear’s dedication to peace, I think he’s wrong.

Jesus flips over tables in the temple; in John, he uses a whip to chase people outl
Jesus withers a fig tree.
Jesus tells the disciples to buy two swords.

Jesus, a man of deep compassion and peace, was* not* nonviolent.

God in the Old Testament is certainly* not *a god of peace (another claim Fr. Dear makes).

These conclusions–that God and Jesus are nonviolent and exclusively peaceful-- require a very tortured (excuse the pun) reading of the Bible

Am I wrong?
 
A Jesuit? And you are surprised?

Jesuits and pacifists in general ignore the truth of God and Jesus as the God-man: violence can be OK.

Fr. Dear is blatantly out of line with reality, as are most of his persuasion.
 
vi·o·lent

/ˈvaɪələnt/ %between%Show Spelledvahy-uh-luhnt] %between%Show IPA
**adjective **1. acting with or characterized by uncontrolled, strong, rough force: *a violent earthquake. *
  1. caused by injurious or destructive force: *a violent death. *
  2. intense in force, effect, etc.; severe; extreme: *violent pain; violent cold. *
  3. roughly or immoderately vehement or ardent: *violent passions. *
  4. furious in impetuosity, energy, etc.: *violent haste. *
    **
The text of St. Matthew runs as follows:
I think that somehow we need to reconcile the two…teachccd
*
 
teachccd said:
vi·o·lent

/ˈvaɪələnt/ %between%Show Spelledvahy-uh-luhnt] %between%Show IPA
adjective 1. acting with or characterized by uncontrolled, strong, rough force: a violent earthquake.
  1. caused by injurious or destructive force: *a violent death. *
  2. intense in force, effect, etc.; severe; extreme: violent pain; violent cold.
  3. roughly or immoderately vehement or ardent: *violent passions. *
  4. furious in impetuosity, energy, etc.: violent haste.
    **
The text of *St. Matthew runs as follows:
I think that somehow we need to reconcile the two…teachccd
Click to expand...
There is nothing that needs reconciling. It is only when you look at the extremes, does it appear things need reconciled. But like most things Catholic, the extremes don’t fit. Jesus was obviously not a pacifist, Jesus obviously preached a desire for peace.
 
Is a peacemaker necessarily nonviolent? One could argue that Gen. Patton was a peacemaker since, through is actions, he helped to liberate tens of millions of people from the violence of the Nazis. Jesus certainly displayed tremendous restraint, forgiveness, and kindness; he preached and counseled peaceful resolutions. But he was not nonviolent.

(And I’m not trying to compare Gen.George Patton to Jesus; I hope you take my meaning).
 
Michaeljc4 said:
I recently read The God of Peace by Fr. John Dear. Fr. Dear makes the claim–backed up by the Gospels–that Jesus was the perfect example of nonviolence, and as a result, we should all be nonviolent, too. While I admire Fr. Dear’s dedication to peace, I think he’s wrong.

Jesus flips over tables in the temple; in John, he uses a whip to chase people outl
Jesus withers a fig tree.
Jesus tells the disciples to buy two swords.

Jesus, a man of deep compassion and peace, was* not* nonviolent.

God in the Old Testament is certainly* not *a god of peace (another claim Fr. Dear makes).

These conclusions–that God and Jesus are nonviolent and exclusively peaceful-- require a very tortured (excuse the pun) reading of the Bible

Am I wrong?
Click to expand...
Reminds me of the just war doctrine–violence to create peace, except the violence done is more peaceful than if there was no violence done to stop the previous violence. Also, they are the same God so the Fr. is wrong and believing in heresy if he claims that God is schizophrenic or something
 
Michaeljc4 said:
Jesus flips over tables in the temple; in John, he uses a whip to chase people outl
Jesus withers a fig tree.
Jesus tells the disciples to buy two swords.
Click to expand...
also

“22 Behold, I (Christ) will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great
tribulation, except they repent of their deeds. 23 And I will kill her children with death…”
(Rev 2:22-23)
 
Rainaldo said:
Yeah he won’t come bearing a bouquet of daisies in his hand will he.
Click to expand...
I’m sure some Catholic, somewhere, will start shouting about Jesus being uncharitable while He is slaying the enemies of God. :rolleyes:
 
But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. Matt 5:34
Click to expand...
Nuff said??
 
Trying to circumscribe God is too tricky for me. I will continue to learn from Him though if He so wills.
 
MichaelTDoyle said:
Trying to circumscribe God is too tricky for me. I will continue to learn from Him though if He so wills.
Click to expand...
I like that. I actually like that a lot! I do know that “God is Love”(1 John 4:8, 16). Everything else can only be an expression of His essence…
 
BillP said:
But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. Matt 5:34 Nuff said??
Click to expand...
Is He referring to physical violence here, Bill?

This is a common verse cherry picked out of context by many people. The chapter is Christ talking about civil trials and personal insults.

The striking on the cheek is referring to a backhand, as in a grave personal insult. Jesus is not telling us to let people beat us in the street.
 
Calgar said:
Is He referring to physical violence here, Bill?

This is a common verse cherry picked out of context by many people. The chapter is Christ talking about civil trials and personal insults.

The striking on the cheek is referring to a backhand, as in a grave personal insult. Jesus is not telling us to let people beat us in the street.
Click to expand...
Well, if we were to do that, we might be able to shield the blows with the sword we’ve cemented shut in its scabbard- the same sword Christ also commanded the Apostles to have and I’d assume you and me since no abrogation or clarification occurred in the NT. 🙂

Cherry-picked verses invite Satan’s curses… or something like that.
 
Really, seriously??? Catholics debating whether Jesus was non-violent? Of course Jesus was non-violent and of course the Church teaches non-violence. Go to www.vatican.va and search on the word “non-violence” and “non-violent” and see how many Church documents and teachings affirm that non-violence is a core principle of Christianity.
 
Jesus knew just what he was doing and he wanted to make a statement, he did get mad at the temple and at the fig tree, but one needs to look at the meaning. His actions were intentional and he didn’t hurt anyone. When I read the OT, I feel so bad for God, he gave them so many chances, just like today, God is probably weeping for us.
 
What about the words of our Lord in Matthew 10:34?

“Do not think that I have come to bring peace on Earth, I have come not to bring peace but a sword.”

What is the deeper, or real meaning of this? Jesus is the Prince of Peace, true, but achieving peace can require a struggle, and a struggle can be violent. Am I wrong?
 
John 2:15 And when he had made, as it were, a scourge of little cords, he drove them all out of the temple, the sheep also and the oxen, and the money of the changers he poured out, and the tables he overthrew.
Click to expand...
Not nonviolent.
 
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