Jesus prayed the Rosary

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ComplineSanFran said:
Totally agree. Sometimes we forget that the Jewish Scriptures and traditions are precedent to Christianity and are quite authentic in their own right. We are the ones who ‘borrowed’ them for our own use.
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Amen.

Jesus (Yeshua) was very much a Jew.
 
The only reason the rosary is linked to the Psalms is because the early monastics prayed the 150 psalms and since the laity either couldn’t read not did they own copies of the scriptures, the closest they could to do imitating the prayer practice was to say 150 Hail Marys.
Jesus certainly did NOT pray the rosary. He knew and was instructed int he psalms from the Temple and his upbringing in his faith.

It’s quite the stretch to equate that with the rosary.
 
pianistclare said:
The only reason the rosary is linked to the Psalms is because the early monastics prayed the 150 psalms and since the laity either couldn’t read not did they own copies of the scriptures, the closest they could to do imitating the prayer practice was to say 150 Hail Marys.
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I’m curious what your source is for this - that laity prayed Hail Marys going as far back as the early monastics.
 
ComplineSanFran said:
I’m curious what your source is for this - that laity prayed Hail Marys going as far back as the early monastics.
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Except that they did not use the form of Hail Mary that we use nowadays.

The second half (Holy Mary, Mother of God and so on) wasn’t added until the Council of Trent in the Sixteenth century, I believe.
 
ComplineSanFran said:
I’m curious what your source is for this - that laity prayed Hail Marys going as far back as the early monastics.
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But not during the life of Christ as the OP is alleging.
It’s basic Church history. No one said the monastics didn’t pray the rosary.
But the LAITY did not because they were uneducated. They turned to the desert Fathers for guidance, inspiration, and the copied their prayer life as best they could. Which meant 150 Hail Marys instead of reading the Psalms.
They didn’t own Bibles. Bibles were hand written only a select few wealthy people owned them. You know this, right?
 
This is an amazing leap to say that Jesus prayed the rosary. I would say there is insufficient evidence available to surmise any specifics about the prayers that He pray in the garden beyond what is in scripture… which definitely isn’t the rosary
 
pianistclare said:
But not during the life of Christ as the OP is alleging.
It’s basic Church history. No one said the monastics didn’t pray the rosary.
But the LAITY did not because they were uneducated. They turned to the desert Fathers for guidance, inspiration, and the copied their prayer life as best they could. Which meant 150 Hail Marys instead of reading the Psalms.
They didn’t own Bibles. Bibles were hand written only a select few wealthy people owned them. You know this, right?
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I am a theologian and church historian, so I tend to have quite a bit of studies behind me, thank you. What I was curious about was where your sources came from that stated that both early monastics and laity (3rd, 4th, even 5th century) used Marian devotions in their prayers. Or where it states that the Desert Fathers and Mothers had ANY impact on the prayers of the laity.
 
ComplineSanFran said:
I am a theologian and church historian, so I tend to have quite a bit of studies behind me, thank you. What I was curious about was where your sources came from that stated that both early monastics and laity (3rd, 4th, even 5th century) used Marian devotions in their prayers. Or where it states that the Desert Fathers and Mothers had ANY impact on the prayers of the laity.
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Well if you want to debate theology degrees, I’m not interested. I don’t believe I specified WHICH monastic communities. But ok. For centuries long before Christ, the faithful said prayers in a repetitive manner. By at least the ninth century, monks were reciting all 150 psalms, at first every day, but later every week as part of their prayers and devotions. One way they kept track was to count out 150 pebbles and then place one pebble in a container or pouch as they said each psalm. People living near the monks wanted to mimic this devotion, but due to lack of education couldn’t memorize all the psalms. Printed copies, even if individuals could read, were not available as the printing press was centuries away. So Christians began to pray 50 or 150 Our Fathers (or Paternosters) each week instead of the psalms. In order to keep count of the Our Fathers, they often used string with knots in it instead of counting on rocks. Later the knots gave way to small pieces of wood and eventually to the use of beads, and eventually the Hail Mary.
 
pianistclare said:
Well if you want to debate theology degrees, I’m not interested. I don’t believe I specified WHICH monastic communities. But ok. For centuries long before Christ, the faithful said prayers in a repetitive manner. By at least the ninth century, monks were reciting all 150 psalms, at first every day, but later every week as part of their prayers and devotions. One way they kept track was to count out 150 pebbles and then place one pebble in a container or pouch as they said each psalm. People living near the monks wanted to mimic this devotion, but due to lack of education couldn’t memorize all the psalms. Printed copies, even if individuals could read, were not available as the printing press was centuries away. So Christians began to pray 50 or 150 Our Fathers (or Paternosters) each week instead of the psalms. In order to keep count of the Our Fathers, they often used string with knots in it instead of counting on rocks. Later the knots gave way to small pieces of wood and eventually to the use of beads, and eventually the Hail Mary.
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A lovely legend. Where did you read this?
 
friardchips said:
The rosary contains the Divine Mysteries so be careful about making comparisons. I can give you a Catechism citation if you so wish.

The LOTH and the Rosary are two different forms of prayer:
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Yep, but that is limited in it’s scope, as an answer.
friardchips said:
The LOTH is praise and thanksgiving.
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Why did you stop there? It is also petition and reparation (try Psalm 51 on for size for that).
friardchips said:
The Rosary is meditative and supplicatory.
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The rosary is the best loved and widest known personal devotion.

The LOTH is the second official Liturgy of the Church, as the Mass being the first. So if one properly says the LOTH, one is engaging in an official Liturgy, just as one attends Mass.
 
ComplineSanFran said:
A lovely legend. Where did you read this?
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I have absolutely no doubt there are multiple sources as to how the rosary started. one is this:

osv.com/Article/TabId/493/ArtMID/13569/ArticleID/17911/Where-did-the-rosary-originate.aspx

Sorry, I have never figured out how to get a link into the threads. In any event, an interesting article, and I guess if you are really interested in the history noted therein, you could follow up on researching.

Our Sunday Visitor: Google “Where did the rosary originate.”
 
ComplineSanFran said:
I am a theologian and church historian, so I tend to have quite a bit of studies behind me, thank you. What I was curious about was where your sources came from that stated that both early monastics and laity (3rd, 4th, even 5th century) used Marian devotions in their prayers. Or where it states that the Desert Fathers and Mothers had ANY impact on the prayers of the laity.
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In Western monasticism, we can say for certain that the Rule of St. Benedict (circa 6th century), did not mention the Blessed Virgin Mary even though it quotes scripture abundantly. Nor for that matter does it directly mention the Mass. It only does so in an oblique way talking about ordaining monks for service at the altar or taking in already ordained priests as monks.f We do know that Mass was not daily back then, so the Mass did not count towards the number of times the monks were to gather to pray. Now many monasteries do include the Mass in the “count”.

St. Benedict gives us one of the first clear schemas for the Divine Office. He describes it in detail over 12 chapters, detailing which psalms were to be said when, when each Hour was to be said, how to account for shorter nights in summer, where to place the hymn (which he called the “ambrosian”), whether to use antiphons or not (not if the community is small); one could write a thesis about it. His schema required reciting 250 psalms a week, obviously with many repetitions.

And then he adds one curious little statement at the end, that if monks aren’t satisfied with this arrangement, that they could devise their own as long as they say all 150 psalms in a week
For those monks show an exceedingly slothful service in their devotion who, within the course of a week, sing less than the entire Psalter with the usual canticles, since we read that our holy Fathers resolutely performed in a single day what we tepid monks but hope to achieve in an entire week.
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.

Certainly monastics did develop a Marian devotion at some point, many monasteries having been dedicated to (and named for) Our Lady.

As for Jesus, he most certainly did not “pray” the Rosary. He lived it. It is His life that the Rosary is about. He prayed the Psalms and He prayed the Father directly (cf. the Garden of Gethsemane; on the Cross…)

Personally I find that praying the LOTH makes praying the Rosary a bit redundant… so I rarely pray the Rosary. At the abbey I’m associated with, they do have community Rosary but it isn’t compulsory from what I’ve been told. The abbey does use a monastic version of the LOTH that prays all 150 psalms in a week.
 
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