Jesus said the goats would be on the left

[LisaA]

You presented a passage of scriptures, and I asked for the specific instructions from Christ for us, who are all sinners, to separate others from us. Now you bring up where one can separate themselves, through the authoritative men of the Church and not the parishioners, in a serious act of serious disobedience which results in excommunication. Does that excommunication prevent that person from attending the Catholic Church, or does the Church encourage that person to continue coming to the place where they can find correction?

Is there nothing that teaches us to take actions in an attempt to separate others from the body of Christ?

You keep referring to someone separating others from us. What do you mean? Are there locks on the doors of your Parish? Is someone being stopped by one of your greeters before they enter the Sanctuary? Do these people have to pass a test or set of requirements before being allowed to attend Mass or other events at your Parish? The whole line of thought defies reality and reminds me of a particularly annoying commercial by the UCC claiming that certain churches (the collars on the priests gave me a hint!) don’t allow gays or people of color or those with disabilities in the door. It was disgusting and completely untrue.

You are right Christ says there is only one Shepherd. But he also says “My sheep hear my voice” The Lord’s sheep listen to Him and follow Him. If someone is openly heretical, openly and gravely sinful we don’t stop them from attending Mass but should they be offered the Eucharist? Is that what you mean by separating people or are you talking about those who separate themselves?

Lisa

 

[R_C]

Left and Right mean nothing: it is the extremes that touch.

Some of the most heinous and horrendous crimes and some policies that promote sins that cry to heaven for vengeance have been (and in many countries still are) promoted by groups of either extreme left or extreme right.

Perhaps we ought to understand that there must be serious balance between the traditional factions of “left” and “right” in order to optimize what is in accordance with God’s will and minimize the works of Satan. After all, many who would read about the Social Doctrine of Holy Church not knowing that it is under the light of the Holy Spirit may be tempted to consider it leftist or worse:

In the perspective of an integral and solidary development, it is possible to arrive at a proper appreciation of the moral evaluation that the Church’s social doctrine offers in regard to the market economy or, more simply, of the free economy:

“If by ‘capitalism’ is meant an economic system which recognizes the fundamental and positive role of business, the market, private property and the resulting responsibility for the means of production, as well as free human creativity in the economic sector, then the answer is certainly in the affirmative, even though it would perhaps be more appropriate to speak of a ‘business economy’, ‘market economy’ or simply ‘free economy’.

But if by ‘capitalism’ is meant a system in which freedom in the economic sector is not circumscribed within a strong juridical framework which places it at the service of human freedom in its totality, and which sees it as a particular aspect of that freedom, the core of which is ethical and religious, then the reply is certainly negative”

I bet this is a banned topic!

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

You keep referring to someone separating others from us. What do you mean? Are there locks on the doors of your Parish? Is someone being stopped by one of your greeters before they enter the Sanctuary? Do these people have to pass a test or set of requirements before being allowed to attend Mass or other events at your Parish? The whole line of thought defies reality and reminds me of a particularly annoying commercial by the UCC claiming that certain churches (the collars on the priests gave me a hint!) don’t allow gays or people of color or those with disabilities in the door. It was disgusting and completely untrue.

You are right Christ says there is only one Shepherd. But he also says “My sheep hear my voice” The Lord’s sheep listen to Him and follow Him. If someone is openly heretical, openly and gravely sinful we don’t stop them from attending Mass but should they be offered the Eucharist? Is that what you mean by separating people or are you talking about those who separate themselves?

Lisa

People can push others away. All humans are fragile, and we are all sinners. It seems that the purpose of this thread is division, or has wording to appear so. As I’ve said, if we caused another to stay away, we become complicit in that person’s failing.

We can recognize wrong, but we don’t know what’s in other people’s hearts and if they can recognize their wrongs. Irregardless, corrections cannot be offered if we ostracize those, we may see around the beam in our own eye, as having a splinter in their eye.

 

[feed_me]

To interject my opinion. That would actually mean that the left is for the sinners that are in the world at the end of the thousand year reign. Yes even during the thousand years of peace, people will still do evil. Once satan has been given the final boot to the lake of fire, God will seperate the good people from the bad.

 

[LisaA]

People can push others away. All humans are fragile, and we are all sinners. It seems that the purpose of this thread is division, or has wording to appear so. As I’ve said, if we caused another to stay away, we become complicit in that person’s failing.

We can recognize wrong, but we don’t know what’s in other people’s hearts and if they can recognize their wrongs. Irregardless, corrections cannot be offered if we ostracize those, we may see around the beam in our own eye, as having a splinter in their eye.

I don’t see the slightest evidence of your theory. “Goats” refers to those who do not listen to Christ as do the sheep. They are not pushed away but separate themselves. Every reference to Christ indicates that IF their hearts are changed, IF they repent; they will be welcomed back like the lost sheep.

I see no evidence that people are “pushed away” but that people are told of the Truth. They can accept it or not. There are many discussions on CAF about the evil of abortion. This is one of the most clear positions of the Church. If someone CHOOSES to ignore this vital teaching, if they promote abortion, if they excuse those who participate without remorse, if they engage in obtaining an abortion, do you suggest we simply say “Hey that’s just fine because we cannot judge. It’s up to Christ to deal with the dead babies and your soul”?

Again those who walk the walk, who listen to Christ, who make every effort to live for Him and who acknowledge and repent of their sins are forgiven. Those who choose to promote and engage in evil separate themselves.

Lisa

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

I don’t see the slightest evidence of your theory. “Goats” refers to those who do not listen to Christ as do the sheep. They are not pushed away but separate themselves. Every reference to Christ indicates that IF their hearts are changed, IF they repent; they will be welcomed back like the lost sheep.

I see no evidence that people are “pushed away” but that people are told of the Truth. They can accept it or not. There are many discussions on CAF about the evil of abortion. This is one of the most clear positions of the Church. If someone CHOOSES to ignore this vital teaching, if they promote abortion, if they excuse those who participate without remorse, if they engage in obtaining an abortion, do you suggest we simply say “Hey that’s just fine because we cannot judge. It’s up to Christ to deal with the dead babies and your soul”?

Again those who walk the walk, who listen to Christ, who make every effort to live for Him and who acknowledge and repent of their sins are forgiven. Those who choose to promote and engage in evil separate themselves.

Lisa

Let’s see if you can understand it this way, we approach sinners yelling, ‘sinners are doomed to hell fire!’ How many will we successfully witness to?

Christ taught to love even our enemies, and these people are not our enemies, but we see justification of cutting them loose, because they are not as holy as we are, and they never will be.

 

[LisaA]

Let’s see if you can understand it this way, we approach sinners yelling, ‘sinners are doomed to hell fire!’ How many will we successfully witness to?

Christ taught to love even our enemies, and these people are not our enemies, but we see justification of cutting them loose, because they are not as holy as we are, and they never will be.

Great strawman! Now tell me who and where we are approaching sinners yelling they are damned to Hell? I’ve been on CAF since about 2005 and can’t tell you the last time I heard that statement.

Loving our enemies does not mean we accept their sinful activity anymore than we accept our own. Again, how are those who speak the Truth (in love) condemning anyone to Hell? There is much in Scripture about loving correction about speaking the Truth and NOT ignoring vile and evil acts. Paul particularly speaks of his wayward brothers and sisters in Christ and asks them to hear God’s Word and act according to it.

Again I’ve asked you several times, what do you suggest when confronted with sin and evil? Ignore it? Let the evil destroy the weak and powerless? Pretend we do not know what is the right path to walk? How are those who are trying to live our lives by the Word “separating ourselves” from those who dont?

Lisa

 

[odile53]

This is the problem when Scripture is interpreted too literally, and sadly, I’ve seen more of such a tendency among some groups than others. I don’t recall hearing such literal interpretations in homilies in the Catholic Church when I was growing up, and I specifically recall hearing MUCH catechesis about how to read scripture properly.

If you want a real Catholic interpretation, get a copy of the catechism, and a Catholic bible concordance. And start reading some of the Church documents. We have a magisterium which has, through the centuries, exercised much scholarship, effort, and plain hard work in interpreting scripture accurately. We don’t have to rely on the political or temporal “flavor of the day.”

I heard one convert, an attorney, say that what attracted him most to the Church was the rich intellectual tradition. He (somewhat uncharitably) said that his former denomination was like everyone being given their own personal copy of the Constitution, and told to interpret it however they saw fit. Obviously, such a scenario would result in chaos. Picking up a bible, leafing through it, and applying interpretations to a particular passage, especially out of context of time and culture, leads to spiritual chaos.

You could argue “left” and “right” till Doomsday itself, and not come up with an accurate interpretation. For example, would “left” be “left hand side” from Jesus’ point of view as viewing the crowd of sheep and goats, or to the left hand side of the crowd?

It can get that silly.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Great strawman! Now tell me who and where we are approaching sinners yelling they are damned to Hell? I’ve been on CAF since about 2005 and can’t tell you the last time I heard that statement.

Loving our enemies does not mean we accept their sinful activity anymore than we accept our own. Again, how are those who speak the Truth (in love) condemning anyone to Hell? There is much in Scripture about loving correction about speaking the Truth and NOT ignoring vile and evil acts. Paul particularly speaks of his wayward brothers and sisters in Christ and asks them to hear God’s Word and act according to it.

Again I’ve asked you several times, what do you suggest when confronted with sin and evil? Ignore it? Let the evil destroy the weak and powerless? Pretend we do not know what is the right path to walk? How are those who are trying to live our lives by the Word “separating ourselves” from those who dont?

Lisa

When we’re condemning people, we are not winning, or even attempting to win, them over.

You overlook that I said the Church teaches to love the sinner and hate the sin.

We are all sinners, but some of us consider our sins to be less vile and evil as others? Splinters and beams…

Love and charity in ALL things. That’s how you win hearts. The Church should be the ‘love center’ where people receive correction, and not ostracized by those who think they are not as sinful and somehow better than the others.

 

[LisaA]

When we’re condemning people, we are not winning, or even attempting to win, them over.

You overlook that I said the Church teaches to love the sinner and hate the sin.

We are all sinners, but some of us consider our sins to be less vile and evil as others? Splinters and beams…

Love and charity in ALL things. That’s how you win hearts. The Church should be the ‘love center’ where people receive correction, and not ostracized by those who think they are not as sinful and somehow better than the others.

You keep arguing against something that HAS NOT HAPPENED in this thread, in general on CAF (believe me if someone did condemn another the Mods would be all over them). Where are people being ostracized? I asked in my initial response if you thought the Church doors were locked or if someone is standing at the door with a checklist and not letting sinners into Mass?

You also keep using general platitudes like “love and charity” but fail to indicate HOW this is accomplished.

Again, when one is confronted with an evil doer, with someone promoting evil and sin, with someone who denegrates the Church with untrue statements, what do you suggest? Ignoring them? Jumping in to help them promote evil under the theory you can “win their hearts” with your magnanimous nature?

I suggest trying in all ways to speak and live the Truth. If some of the lost sheep do not accept it and choose to separate, at least we’ve done our best to be the hands and feet of Christ in this world.

What do you suggest and why do you keep arguing against non-events?

Lisa

 

[R_C]

I’ve been trying to follow your debate and I think you are quite close. Let me focus on ProdigalSon1 to see if I can understand his point.

A real solution, would be to seek unification with all in the body of Christ, and quit seeking division.

Ok, so far so good: this is the idea of ecumenism. However, we must be careful: we seek unification in that we open the Ark outside of which there is no salvation to all, following the Lord’s command to evangelize all nations, and entrusting to His mercy those who are under invincible ignorance; that is, the unification we seek is in attracting the nations to us. We do not compromise the truth, we do not adapt the truth. To do so would be heresy.

Yet, we have people today who would push away, because of their own opinions

Well, if they would “push away” because of their own opinion, this would not be proper of a Christian. However, there is something very clear in Sacred Scripture (I refer to the New Testament specifically) and in Sacred Tradition when the “pushing away” is done because of the teachings of Holy Church. Which leads to the following questions:

continued

 

[R_C]

When we’re condemning people, we are not winning, or even attempting to win, them over.

Please share with us where Christ taught men to promote division.

Show me the specific instructions where Christ tells us, who are all sinners, to separate others?

To begin with, a premise regarding the teachings of Christ and Sacred Tradition (that is, regarding the role of the apostles, of the Church, and of Christ as Her head):

I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. But when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will teach you all truth. For he shall not speak of himself; but what he shall hear, he shall speak …] He shall glorify me; because he shall receive of mine, and shall declare it to you.

Now, specifically regarding Christ, I’ll omit the Old Testament because it would turn into a never-ending discussion (which in my ignorance I cannot sustain) and focus on the coming of Christ.

And Simeon blessed them, and said to Mary his mother: Behold this child is set for the fall, and for the resurrection of many in Israel, and for a sign which shall be contradicted; And thy own soul a sword shall pierce, that, out of many hearts, thoughts may be revealed.

Do you think, that I came to give peace on earth? I tell you, no; but separation. (original: separationem)

Now the writings of St. Paul

Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness?

I wrote you in my letter not to associate with immoral people. I mean not with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or the extortioners, or the servers of idols; otherwise you must needs go out of this world. But now I have written to you, not to keep company, if any man that is named a brother, be a fornicator, or covetous, or a server of idols, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner: with such a one, not so much as to eat.

In the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, we command you, brothers, to keep away from every brother who is idle and does not live according to the teaching you received from us.

If any one preach to you a gospel besides that which you have received, let him be anathema.

If any man love not our Lord Jesus Christ, let him be anathema.

This precept, I commend to you, O son Timothy: according to the prophecies going before on you, that you war in them a good warfare, having faith and a good conscience, which some rejecting have made shipwreck concerning the faith. Of whom is Hymeneus and Alexander, whom I have delivered up to Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.

It is absolutely heard that there is fornication among you and such fornication as the like is not among the heathens: that one should have his father’s wife. And you are puffed up and have not rather mourned: that he might be taken away from among you that has done this thing. I indeed, absent in body but present in spirit, have already judged, as though I were present, him that has so done, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, you being gathered together and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus: To deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Excommunication (which, mind you, can be incurred automatically) is a medicinal penalty for the sake of the salus animae of the sinner, that he may not add sacrilege to his sins. The goal is to be firm for their own sake, that they may repent and seek the truth. Compromising the truth does not help sinners: this is what heretic doctrines do, and the results are disastrous! Consider the attitude taken by Christ himself:

he who does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me.

From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him. Then Jesus said to the twelve: “Will you also go away?”

Jesus did not beg the disciples to stay with him, nor did He fix, adapt, modernize or otherwise compromise the timeless truths He was revealing. No, He even turned to the very Apostles which He himself had chosen and challenged them: “are you staying or are you also leaving me?” He did not fear that the twelve themselves may abandon Him, because the truth He was teaching was far, far more important. We do not attempt to “win people over”. No. We show the truth, like the lights of the world that we are in Christ, and it is up to them to accept it or reject it. To attempt to dim that light in order not to hurt their eyes is to turn it off.

In this sad little modern age of ours we have forgotten the effectiveness of discipline and mortification. We have forgotten this, and we see the results in our families and in our societies. We also see it, quite frankly, in the Church, where in the US only 24% of Christians in the Catholic Church attend Holy Mass weekly, just to mention one example, and many, many more fall into heresy or even excommunication without even knowing so. Make no mistake: we do no good to other Christians, whether or not they are in the Church, by smiling and saying: “it’s all right, we’re still brothers, we still love you”, for even Satan and his wicked legions are not intrinsically evil, and even the worst and most heinous sinners is to be loved just as much as the dearest and nearest loved one, if we seek to be “perfect as our heavenly Father is perfect”. We ought to “hold to the teachings the Church passed on to us, whether by word of mouth or by letter”, “encourage others by sound doctrine, and refute those who oppose it”. This must be done with Christian charity and brotherly love, but also with steadfast firmness.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

You keep arguing against something that HAS NOT HAPPENED in this thread, in general on CAF (believe me if someone did condemn another the Mods would be all over them). Where are people being ostracized? I asked in my initial response if you thought the Church doors were locked or if someone is standing at the door with a checklist and not letting sinners into Mass?

You also keep using general platitudes like “love and charity” but fail to indicate HOW this is accomplished.

Again, when one is confronted with an evil doer, with someone promoting evil and sin, with someone who denegrates the Church with untrue statements, what do you suggest? Ignoring them? Jumping in to help them promote evil under the theory you can “win their hearts” with your magnanimous nature?

I suggest trying in all ways to speak and live the Truth. If some of the lost sheep do not accept it and choose to separate, at least we’ve done our best to be the hands and feet of Christ in this world.

What do you suggest and why do you keep arguing against non-events?

Lisa

The title of this thread, and the first post, has happened. It’s a ‘us’ against ‘them’ theme. That is separation at work.

Did I not say that the Church should be considered the ‘love center’ where corrections can be received? Did I not say love and charity in all things? I’ve also spoken against condemnations as a way to win people over.

We have an authoritative Church. Laypersons are at the bottom of the hierarchy. We communicate our concerns to the authoritative and let them, in their wisdom, be authoritative. Those who have excommunicated themselves are not prevented from, but encouraged to, continue attending Church, where correction can be given and received.

The non-events are there, as I’ve explained. We are all sinners and no better than the next. To say we are means we have judged others. We have to look within ourselves and witness through our actions, and when necessary, say something.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Jesus set an authoritative Church, of men. Jesus is the only judge and no one is as righteous as to set themselves to act as if they were. The authoritative Church is another story. They provoke excommunications, yet encourage those to continue coming to the Church where correction can be received. I don’t see a problem in how the men of the Church conduct themselves, at they’ve received instructions through scriptures and tradition. They are in charge of His Church. The layperson is at the bottom of the hierarchy and should address their concerns to those men. To direct them directly to each other, ostracizes people. That can cause some to stand firm in their wrong, without realization. If you cause that, you are complicit in that person’s wrongs.

 

[LisaA]

The title of this thread, and the first post, has happened. It’s a ‘us’ against ‘them’ theme. That is separation at work.

Did I not say that the Church should be considered the ‘love center’ where corrections can be received? Did I not say love and charity in all things? I’ve also spoken against condemnations as a way to win people over.

We have an authoritative Church. Laypersons are at the bottom of the hierarchy. We communicate our concerns to the authoritative and let them, in their wisdom, be authoritative. Those who have excommunicated themselves are not prevented from, but encouraged to, continue attending Church, where correction can be given and received.

The non-events are there, as I’ve explained. We are all sinners and no better than the next. To say we are means we have judged others. We have to look within ourselves and witness through our actions, and when necessary, say something.

You keep repeating the same meaningless platitudes. R__C has written two outstanding posts addressing the issues. Please read them and you might have a better understanding.

As to the title of the thread, it refers to a specific verse in the New Testament. So you argue with the words of Christ? Do you think you have a better way to preach the Gospel?

As to the theory “we are all sinners, no better than the next.” Baloney. Yes we are all sinners, no one is perfect except Christ. OTOH the theory that it is just as evil to take home a pencil from work as mow down 20 innocent children is ridiculous. We do, we can and we MUST judge others’ behavior. We don’t judge the state of souls but that doesn’t mean we cannot point to evil acts and evil doers as evil. We don’t compromise the Truth in order to ‘get along’ with everyone.

Lisa

 

[R_C]

The title of this thread, and the first post, has happened. It’s a ‘us’ against ‘them’ theme. That is separation at work.

I don’t like the idea of the thread either. We cannot pass judgment onto others that way. It certainly does not appear to be a good way to preach the Gospel, to tell others that they are somewhat less because of their beliefs. There is good everywhere, both left and right, because God is in the center, and the depiction of left and right are purely symbolic, just as above and below are.

I like these two thoughts:

We have to look within ourselves and witness through our actions, and when necessary, say something.

We do, we can and we MUST judge others’ behavior. We don’t judge the state of souls but that doesn’t mean we cannot point to evil acts and evil doers as evil.

Both are nice and reflect deep truths. As long as both things are done with charity, they are not opposites, but complementary.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

You keep repeating the same meaningless platitudes. R__C has written two outstanding posts addressing the issues. Please read them and you might have a better understanding.

As to the title of the thread, it refers to a specific verse in the New Testament. So you argue with the words of Christ? Do you think you have a better way to preach the Gospel?

As to the theory “we are all sinners, no better than the next.” Baloney. Yes we are all sinners, no one is perfect except Christ. OTOH the theory that it is just as evil to take home a pencil from work as mow down 20 innocent children is ridiculous. We do, we can and we MUST judge others’ behavior. We don’t judge the state of souls but that doesn’t mean we cannot point to evil acts and evil doers as evil. We don’t compromise the Truth in order to ‘get along’ with everyone.

Lisa

Lisa

I’m done with responding to posts that twist, or add insinuation, to what I say. I never argued Christ’s words, and tried to point out, ‘WE ARE NOT CHRIST.’ We are not the ones who will divide sheep from goats. Nowhere has that been taught. In fact, quite the opposite was taught. Judge not, lest ye be judged.

I am not going to place myself above another person in ‘sin’. I am not going to try and sway people away from the body of Christ, especially over the secular of politics. No one said compromise truth to get along. We don’t have the authority to do what the men of the Church do not. The Church is the place of truth and corrections.

 

[LisaA]

I’m done with responding to posts that twist, or add insinuation, to what I say. I never argued Christ’s words, and tried to point out, ‘WE ARE NOT CHRIST.’ We are not the ones who will divide sheep from goats. Nowhere has that been taught. In fact, quite the opposite was taught. Judge not, lest ye be judged.

I am not going to place myself above another person in ‘sin’. I am not going to try and sway people away from the body of Christ, especially over the secular of politics. No one said compromise truth to get along. We don’t have the authority to do what the men of the Church do not. The Church is the place of truth and corrections.

Your post is non-sensical and fails to address the many attempts to understand what you mean. No one has clalimed to be Christ although we are charged to BE Christ’s hands and feet and heart in this world. We do not separate people from ourselves, but they sometimes choose to separate because they do not listen to Christ. The analogy of sheep and goats is simply that, an analogy. Goats being what they are, independent, stubborn, and self sufficient represent those who do not follow Christ. Sheep being what they are, listen to the voice of the Good Shepherd, follow Him and know they are totallyl dependent upon Him. You are over thinking this I believe. The sheep and the goats are reprsentational of those who choose or choose not to follow Christ. THEY CHOOSE their lot just as sinners choose to separate themselves from God.

As to “judge not, lest ye be judged” yes that’s the point, that WE too are judged. Judge not the actions of someone if we too engage in the same actions. That doesn’t mean we don’t judge ANY actions, particularly evil actions. We do and we must. Yes we judge ourselves first and if we are following Christ make every attempt to repent and live the Word. But we cannot look the other way when evil visits as it does routinely.

Again I have no clue what you mean. You just repeat the same statements that don’t address any of the issues raised.

Lisa

 

[livingwordunity]

This is the problem when Scripture is interpreted too literally, and sadly, I’ve seen more of such a tendency among some groups than others. I don’t recall hearing such literal interpretations in homilies in the Catholic Church when I was growing up, and I specifically recall hearing MUCH catechesis about how to read scripture properly.

If you want a real Catholic interpretation, get a copy of the catechism, and a Catholic bible concordance. And start reading some of the Church documents. We have a magisterium which has, through the centuries, exercised much scholarship, effort, and plain hard work in interpreting scripture accurately. We don’t have to rely on the political or temporal “flavor of the day.”

I heard one convert, an attorney, say that what attracted him most to the Church was the rich intellectual tradition. He (somewhat uncharitably) said that his former denomination was like everyone being given their own personal copy of the Constitution, and told to interpret it however they saw fit. Obviously, such a scenario would result in chaos. Picking up a bible, leafing through it, and applying interpretations to a particular passage, especially out of context of time and culture, leads to spiritual chaos.

You could argue “left” and “right” till Doomsday itself, and not come up with an accurate interpretation. For example, would “left” be “left hand side” from Jesus’ point of view as viewing the crowd of sheep and goats, or to the left hand side of the crowd?

It can get that silly.

I know that when Jesus said the goats would be on the left he was talking about at the end of time when he judges the world. But who’s to say that what happens at the end of time isn’t already taking shape? Please tell me where the Magisterium has said that we absolutely can’t apply what Jesus said about the goats on the left to those of today who have a “nobody’s going to tell me what to do” attitude who also happen to identify themselves as being on the left. Jesus, being God, could see all of human history past, present, and future when he made that statement about the sheep and the goats. American politics is recognized by the entire world because America is arguably the most powerful nation on earth, so whatever happens in America effects the rest of the world. That’s why the whole world watches and takes a side whenever America has a presidential election. And that’s why American politics and America’s concept of political left and right trumps any other concept of a political left or right in today’s modern world.

 

[Tigg]

As to the theory “we are all sinners, no better than the next.” Baloney. Yes we are all sinners, no one is perfect except Christ. OTOH the theory that it is just as evil to take home a pencil from work as mow down 20 innocent children is ridiculous. We do, we can and we MUST judge others’ behavior. We don’t judge the state of souls but that doesn’t mean we cannot point to evil acts and evil doers as evil. We don’t compromise the Truth in order to ‘get along’ with everyone.

Lisa

You must understand, Lisa, that liberalism will always uphold phony love, sweet words and a compromising tone with sin instead of the uncompromising nature of God’s truth, and further, we will always be accused of not loving our neighbor if we are not politically correct. Somehow many simply do not recognize that the highest form of charity is correction and that if we neglect to admonish the sinner it is the opposite of love.