Jesus saves

[Bookcat]

You likely know this one …but just in case it slipped you by

w2.vatican.va/content/benedict-xvi/en/apost_exhortations/documents/hf_ben-xvi_exh_20100930_verbum-domini.html

 

[AveOTheotokos]

• God made us for happiness, and everything made by God is good. I cannot see how a perfect, loving, almighty God could get it so wrong that so many of his creatures might end up in misery and torture permanently. God’s track record is not great. One third of the angels rejected him, humankind also rejected him through our first parents, as they did his own self/son.

God did not make us for happiness in this world. True and eternal happiness is impossible to attain in a sinful and fallen world plagued with suffering. Happiness in this life is incomplete and temporal.

The Baltimore Catechism has an answer for why God made us:

1. Q. Why did God make you?
   A. God made me to know Him, to love Him, and to serve Him in this world, and to be happy with Him for ever in heaven.

True happiness comes not in this life, but in heaven. We are here so that we may come to know Him, freely choose to love Him, and to serve His will in this world.

 

[PNEUMA]

We are justified, saved, by faith, not by works. But is this faith our faith in Jesus or the faith of Jesus, the faith, trust, he had? If our faith saves us, we save ourselves; if the faith of Jesus saves us he is our savior; he accepted the will of the father and underwent his passion and death for our sanctification, he saves us.

Sorry for going on about this issue, but I am concerned I think the issue is important.

It is trust in Jesus. Jesus is a lifeboat, a lifewest that saves us and keeps us alive.

 

[Darryl_B]

It is trust in Jesus. Jesus is a lifeboat, a lifewest that saves us and keeps us alive.

I personally do not like your analogy. Jesus is a lifeboat, a lifevest? Really? The reason I don’t like your analogy is that it is using inanimate objects of convenience, making Jesus something I stand on, or something I wear, something feeble that suits my purposes. If you were instead to say Jesus Christ is the majestic Captain of a rock solid ship which is going to its destination absolutely, it would be more realistic.

So to answer the OP, faith is being on that ship, a ship which has no lifeboats and has no lifevests because the ship simply does not need them, and it does not need them because Jesus Christ is the Captain. It is not the faith of Jesus Christ that will get that ship to it’s destination, and it is not our faith in the Captain that will get the ship to it’s destination. It is the credentials of the Captain that guarantees the ship will get there.

 

[PNEUMA]

I personally do not like your analogy. Jesus is a lifeboat, a lifevest? Really? The reason I don’t like your analogy is that it is using inanimate objects of convenience, making Jesus something I stand on, or something I wear, something feeble that suits my purposes. If you were instead to say Jesus Christ is the majestic Captain of a rock solid ship which is going to its destination absolutely, it would be more realistic…

Yes a saving lifevest, to put on, to be in, when the flood comes

Romans 13:14 “put on the Lord Jesus Christ”

Ephesians 4:24 “clothe yourselves with the new self”

Galatians 3:27 “have clothed yourselves with Christ”

2 Corinthians 5:17 “if any one is in Christ, he is a new creation”

1 Peter 5:14 “Peace to all of you who are in Christ”

 

[PNEUMA]

You need good works in addition to your faith.

“Faith without works is dead.” - James 2:14-26

If you are in Christ, or walk in Christ. You also walk in the works of Christ.

Ephesians 2:10 “For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.”

Just make sure you are in Christ, and remain in Christ

 

[Darryl_B]

Yes a saving lifevest, to put on, to be in, when the flood comes

Romans 13:14 “put on the Lord Jesus Christ”

Ephesians 4:24 “clothe yourselves with the new self”

Galatians 3:27 “have clothed yourselves with Christ”

2 Corinthians 5:17 “if any one is in Christ, he is a new creation”

1 Peter 5:14 “Peace to all of you who are in Christ”

A shotgun spread of Scripture which doesn’t actually support your case.

Romans 13:14 and Galatians 3:27 use the Greek word enduo which basically “means sink into”. (It can mean clothe but it also means something else). What we do is sink into the “mystical body of Christ” the Church where Jesus Christ is the Captain. The “mystical body of Christ” the Church is the ship in my example. Baptism is where we swim from the ship wreck that is humanity, baptism is where we swim from our personally created lifeboats and insecurity. We then get rescued and resucitated with newness of life.

And behold a storm arose, and Jesus was in the back sleeping, Peter exclaimed man the life boats, grab the life vests.

 

[PNEUMA]

A shotgun spread of Scripture which doesn’t actually support your case.

Romans 13:14 and Galatians 3:27 use the Greek word enduo which basically “means sink into”. (It can mean clothe but it also means something else). What we do is sink into the “mystical body of Christ” the Church where Jesus Christ is the Captain. The “mystical body of Christ” the Church is the ship in my example. Baptism is where we swim from the ship wreck that is humanity, baptism is where we swim from our personally created lifeboats and insecurity. We then get rescued and resucitated with newness of life.

And behold a storm arose, and Jesus was in the back sleeping, Peter exclaimed man the life boats, grab the life vests.

Paul clearly says put on Jesus Christ and be in Jesus Christ !

As for “the majestic Captain” When you are in Jesus Christ, you are in high office.

Ephesians 2:4 “God, who is rich in mercy, out of the great love with which he loved us even when we were dead through our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ by grace you have been saved and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus”

 

[Bookcat]

Paul clearly says put on Jesus Christ and be in Jesus Christ !

Yes he does.

Romans 13:14 “put on the Lord Jesus Christ”

Ephesians 4:24 “clothe yourselves with the new self”

Galatians 3:27 “have clothed yourselves with Christ”

2 Corinthians 5:17 “if any one is in Christ, he is a new creation”

1 Peter 5:14 “Peace to all of you who are in Christ”

Yes most certainly. Though I prefer the RSV.

I know all analogies limp …however I too think the lifevest analogy falls too short of the splendid meaning of those passages. They far outstrip and transcend such an idea.

 

[NoelFitz]

AveOTheotokos #47

For a Protestant and a Catholic faith means different things. For a Protestant it is trust in God, for a Catholic it is belief in truths.

 

[Bookcat]

AveOTheotokos #47

For a Protestant and a Catholic faith means different things. For a Protestant it is trust in God, for a Catholic it is belief in truths.

For a Catholic that is* one* meaning or aspect of faith…important but not the whole.

Catechism

150 Faith is first of all a personal adherence of man to God. At the same time, and inseparably, it is a free assent to the whole truth that God has revealed. As personal adherence to God and assent to his truth, Christian faith differs from our faith in any human person. It is right and just to entrust oneself wholly to God and to believe absolutely what he says. It would be futile and false to place such faith in a creature.

scborromeo.org/ccc/p1s1c3a1.htm#150

“At this point I would like to sketch a path intended to help us understand more profoundly not only the content of the faith, but also the act by which we choose to entrust ourselves fully to God, in complete freedom. In fact, there exists a profound unity between the act by which we believe and the content to which we give our assent. Saint Paul helps us to enter into this reality when he writes: “Man believes with his heart and so is justified, and he confesses with his lips and so is saved” (Rom 10:10). The heart indicates that the first act by which one comes to faith is God’s gift and the action of grace which acts and transforms the person deep within.”

~ Pope Benedict XVI PORTA FIDEI w2.vatican.va/content/benedict-xvi/en.html

“Being Christian is not the result of an ethical choice or a lofty idea, but the encounter with an event, a person, which gives life a new horizon and a decisive direction.”

~ Pope Benedict XVI Deus Caritas Est

“Faith opens us to knowing and welcoming the real identity of Jesus, his newness and oneness, his word, as a source of life, in order to live a personal relationship with him. Knowledge of the faith grows, it grows with the desire to find the way and in the end it is a gift of God who does not reveal himself to us as an abstract thing without a face or a name, because faith responds to a Person who wants to enter into a relationship of deep love with us and to involve our whole life.”

~ Pope Benedict XVI (Sunday, 14 August 2011)

 

[Bookcat]

Also

“When we affirm “I believe in God”, we are saying, like Abraham, “I trust in you, I entrust myself to you, O Lord”, but not as to Someone to turn to solely in times of difficulty or to whom to devote a few moments of the day or week. Saying “I believe in God” means founding my life on him, letting his Word guide it every day, in practical decisions, without fear of losing some part of myself. When, in the Rite of Baptism, the question is asked three times: “Do you believe?” — in God, in Jesus Christ, in the Holy Spirit — the holy Catholic Church and the other truths of the faith, the triple response is in the singular: “I do”, because it is my own life that with the gift of faith must be given a turning point, it is my life that must change, that must be converted. Every time we take part in a Baptism we should ask ourselves how we ourselves live daily the great gift of faith.”

~ Pope Benedict XVI

w2.vatican.va/content/benedict-xvi/en/audiences/2013/documents/hf_ben-xvi_aud_20130123.html

 

[NoelFitz]

I cannot speak for Ireland except to note that is the splendid Navarre Commentary in English originates.

As to the Church Universal - such would certainly be rather incorrect statement to say the least.

Bookcat #57

The excellent Navarre Bible is due to the Faculty of Theology in Navarre. The English translation is due to Irish scholars.

You mention Journet and Cerfaux, I have looked up Journet and note that his book 'The Meaning of Grace’ is available on Amazon. It seems exactly what I want and I have ordered it.

So thanks again.

---

I see the flooowing aabout this book:
Few concepts are more important in Catholic theology than that of grace, but most adult Catholics never move beyond a schoolchild’s understanding of grace. Charles Journet explores philosophy, revelation and history to explain grace fully. Journet lays out both the doctrinal development of grace and corrects persistent mistakes that Catholics make about grace

 

[Bookcat]

Faith has a very rich fullness.

 

[Bookcat]

Bookcat #57

The excellent Navarre Bible is due to the Faculty of Theology in Navarre. The English translation is due to Irish scholars.

You mention Journet and Cerfaux, I have looked up Journet and note that his book 'The Meaning of Grace’ is available on Amazon. It seems exactly what I want and I have ordered it.

So thanks again.

---

I see the flooowing aabout this book:
Few concepts are more important in Catholic theology than that of grace, but most adult Catholics never move beyond a schoolchild’s understanding of grace. Charles Journet explores philosophy, revelation and history to explain grace fully. Journet lays out both the doctrinal development of grace and corrects persistent mistakes that Catholics make about grace

Your welcome.

Do not forget the work on Paul.

Yes I know where the Navarre is from…my point there is that it was actually translated and printed there in your homeland…

 

[PNEUMA]

AveOTheotokos #47

For a Protestant and a Catholic faith means different things. For a Protestant it is trust in God, for a Catholic it is belief in truths.

I thought it was the other way around ? Because protestants a very occupied with bible truths

John 5:39 “You search the scriptures, because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness to me”

 

[Bookcat]

I thought it was the other way around ? Because protestants a very occupied with bible truths

See my posts above.

And both are “occupied with bible truths”.

 

[PNEUMA]

See my posts above.

I did, Pope Benedict was a genius.

 

[Darryl_B]

I did, Pope Benedict was a genius.

What was the OP question?

 

[Darryl_B]

Paul clearly says put on Jesus Christ and be in Jesus Christ !

As for “the majestic Captain” When you are in Jesus Christ, you are in high office.

Ephesians 2:4 “God, who is rich in mercy, out of the great love with which he loved us even when we were dead through our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ by grace you have been saved and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus”

And this is one reason I left protestant and became Catholic. I would much rather enter the Kingdom of God through the tradesman’s entrance, rather than entering through the protestant VIP red-carpet entrance.

I do agree with Ephesians 2:4, just not what you have used it for and especially not that you imply that you are a majestic Captain in a high office.

OP question. Not sound-bites.