Jesus' status in Islam and Judaism

[Ed_Rand]

really?so it also does not matter if we believe jesus is God or Not.correct?

Abraham never knew Jesus and heaven is likened to his bosom.

 

[Ed_Rand]

I am talking about the PROMISE of eternal covenant, the promise of eternal covenant, the promise of eternal covenant, the promise of eternal covenant, the promise of eternal covenant …

only with Isaac’s seed, only with Isaac’s seed, only with Isaac’s seed, only with Isaac’s seed, only with Isaac’s seed, only with Isaac’s seed …

Therefore, one promise is NOT the same as the other! Suppose I promised two people that I would employ them. I also added that only one of the persons employed would get a permanent position in the job. Can you say that my promise meant the same for both persons?

omg… The covenant was with the people of Israel, it is different than the promise. God’s promises are all eternal. If this persists, I will just ignore you.

 

[morning_star777]

Abraham never knew Jesus and heaven is likened to his bosom.

but after knowing jesus?what should we believe that he is GOD or not?and anyway abraham maybe didn’t know jesus but god the holy father always knew holy son.so when god taught that jesus is god’s son then did god deny it after 600 years via muhammed?did god tell muhammed that jesus was his(god’s)son,but now he(jesus)lost his sonship;the eternal sonship?

 

[inJESUS]

He is saying basically the same thing that Paul teaches in Romans chapter 4. Abraham came before the law and before Christ. If we live by faith as he did, it does not matter if we follow Christianity or Islam.

Is it so? is Paul saying it does not matter if you belive in Jesus or not because of Abraham who came before Jesus?

Funny that Satan would teach so many of the same things as God.

 

[swariffin]

I am in THIS thread. You’re holding up a square peg to a square hole and turning it sideways so it won’t go in, and then saying it doesn’t fit. (that’s a metaphor.) All you are showing is that you can’t do math. I’m not going to waste my time teaching you math while I’m in the middle of a much deeper and significant conversation with everyone else. If you want to learn math, go ask a math teacher.

Then you are saying 1.25 = 1. Even my math teacher says that Muhammad made a mistake. But, it was forgiven because there was no calculator or computer yet at that time.

 

[swariffin]

So you think that billions of Muslims do… what when they distribute inheritance? Make money out of thin air? Really, the fact that you think you’re on to something should be your first clue that… you’re not.

Rather than fight with words about the accuracy of the inheritance law, why don’t you just show it with numbers instead. That should do it, and won’t make this thread goes endless.

 

[inJESUS]

omg… The covenant was with the people of Israel, it is different than the promise. God’s promises are all eternal. If this persists, I will just ignore you.

actually Angelos is correct…not all promises are the same…if God promises and eternal covenant through Isaac to be followed even by Ishmaels’ descendant, how can God give Ishmaels’ descendant a covenant that opposes the one given through Isaac, the Messianic covenant?

You sometimes have great insights and beautiful words…but sometimes you amaze me with your belittling of who Jesus is, what He did, His death and resurrection, and all of His covenant, when you claim that God calls Jesus’ crucifixion and resurection a delusion, when yiu claim that it is God who gave Muhammad a covenant that contradicts the eternal Messianic one to be followed by all, and you top it all by saying you do not even have to believe in Jesus to be saved…why aren’t you a Jew if what Jesus did, all His life and covenant is not that important or why aren’t you a Muslim since you believe that the one addressing you in the Quran as deluded and cursed for believing in Jesus’ death and lordship is actually God?

 

[Ed_Rand]

but after knowing jesus?what should we believe that he is GOD or not?and anyway abraham maybe didn’t know jesus but god the holy father always knew holy son.so when god taught that jesus is god’s son then did god deny it after 600 years via muhammed?did god tell muhammed that jesus was his(god’s)son,but now he(jesus)lost his sonship;the eternal sonship?

You should believe what God has taught you.

 

[morning_star777]

Then you are saying 1.25 = 1. Even my math teacher says that Muhammad made a mistake.

yes brother you are correct.in this case according to inheritance law 1=1.25(if only up to 2 sisters then they will get 2/3+mother1/3+wife1/4)sura4:11,12,176.but if only up to 2 daughter then they will get2/3+parents1/3+wife1/8;sura4:11,12.so in this case1.125=1.but though muhammed said so its must be correct

 

[Angelos]

omg… The covenant was with the people of Israel, it is different than the promise. God’s promises are all eternal. If this persists, I will just ignore you.

Maybe difficult for you to swallow, but that’s the truth in the Torah. God absolutely promised Abraham that He would make His eternal covenant with Isaac’s seed.

You are free to ignore me because I shall never go against the Bible and change my view.

 

[Angelos]

Abraham never knew Jesus and heaven is likened to his bosom.

WRONG! Simply read the following:

John 8:56-58

Abraham your father rejoiced that he might see my day: he saw it and was glad. The Jews therefore said to him: Thou art not yet fifty years old. And hast thou seen Abraham? Jesus said to them: Amen, amen, I say to you, before Abraham was made, I AM.

 

[swariffin]

I concede. (you see guys? its not that hard to concede when you are wrong). His message is divine because it comes from Him. Of course. Although, you did admit earlier that “turn your cheek” is a more exalted teaching, correct?

I have not. It is easy to distinguish. If one message is contradicting the others, then that one is NOT a message of God.

Moses taught that God said “Thou shall not kill”,
Jesus taught that “Love your enemy”
Mohammad taught “Kill the unbeliever”

Can anyone see the difference?

 

[Ed_Rand]

Is it so? is Paul saying it does not matter if you belive in Jesus or not because of Abraham who came before Jesus?

He is saying that we are sons of Abraham through faith. For Christians this means faith in the Bible. For Muslims, the Qur’an.

and so many opposing things…actually turning the table upside down by rejecting the Messianic covenat and initiating one that deprives its followers of everything Jesus said and did for them…

You know quite well that you are stretching this way too far.

indeed, that is why he is said to be the father of lies.

Right. So when he warns us about Satan, he is lying. And when he tells us to care for widows and orphans, he is lying. And when he says that Jesus is the Messiah, he is lying. And when he says that God is great, he is lying. And when he promises judgement day and eternal life, he is lying. And when he teaches that Jesus was born of the Virgin Mary, he is lying. And when he teaches that God is forgiving and merciful, he is lying. And when he teaches that he himself is a liar… wait, that makes him sound like you!

 

[Ed_Rand]

I have not. It is easy to distinguish. If one message is contradicting the others, then that one is NOT a message of God.

Moses taught that God said “Thou shall not kill”,
Jesus taught that “Love your enemy”
Mohammad taught “Kill the unbeliever”

Can anyone see the difference?

God ordered the Jews to kill many people. The commands to the Jews and to the Muslims are similar. The commands to Christians are different, and more exalted.

 

[swariffin]

Ed Rand;3794294:

The Qur’an was revealed for you, just like it was revealed for the Jews, and for the Christians, even for the disbelievers.

Oh People of the Book… it says
Oh Children of Israel… it says

Oh MANKIND! it says (yaa ayyaha annaas)

It was revealed for all of mankind.

If that is so, why there is no correct translation except the one in Arabic? Does Quran require all of mankind to be an Arab people?

 

[morning_star777]

You should believe what God has taught you.

god taught me in bible that jesus is son of god.so i believe it.but if later god lie(!)& denied it(according to you because quran denied jesus as god but you think quran is also god’s word)then what should i do?now tell me,1st god taught us that jesus is his son& later denied it?if yes then wat should i believe?according to you both bible&quran is god’s word.

 

[Ed_Rand]

WRONG! Simply read the following:

John 8:56-58

Abraham your father rejoiced that he might see my day: he saw it and was glad. The Jews therefore said to him: Thou art not yet fifty years old. And hast thou seen Abraham? Jesus said to them: Amen, amen, I say to you, before Abraham was made, I AM.

Right, my mistake, let me qualify my sentence. While Abraham was on the earth, he did not know Jesus and yet he led a life of righteousness that brought him to heaven. He did not have the Gospel like we have. This is a matter of wordplay, you knew what I meant.

 

[Ed_Rand]

Maybe difficult for you to swallow, but that’s the truth in the Torah. God absolutely promised Abraham that He would make His eternal covenant with Isaac’s seed.

That’s what I’ve been saying!!! Oh boy, I can’t take this right now… It’s 3 am. you are making me crazy.

 

[inJESUS]

He is saying that we are sons of Abraham through faith. For Christians this means faith in the Bible. For Muslims, the Qur’an.

he is saying that gentiles are also sons of Abraham in faith even though not in seed…he is not addressing what you are talking about. For Paul, and all authors, Jesus’ death was an absolute truth to all those who believe in the God of Israel and it is actually Paul who warned against different gospels, beside John. A different gospel surely includes teachings that Paul and the rest did not teach, mainly that Jesus is not crucified, is not the Son of God…if you were to tell Paul and John this in the face, that a book that denies everything Jesus did and said is from God, am positive they wouldn’t have congractulated your belittling who Jesus is and what He did,

You know quite well that you are stretching this way too far.

 

[Angelos]

Right, my mistake, let me qualify my sentence. While Abraham was on the earth, he did not know Jesus and yet he led a life of righteousness that brought him to heaven. He did not have the Gospel like we have. This is a matter of wordplay, you knew what I meant.

Sorry, I misunderstood your remark.