Jesus' status in Islam and Judaism

[inJESUS]

That commandment (eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth) was given as a principle of communal justice to Israel , which was a nation that needed to retaliate and defend herself against other nations. However, Jesus told people to focus on LOVE instead of JUSTICE while INDIVIDUALLY dealing with their personal adversaries.In Jesus, national attitude was replaced with individual one.

 

[Ed_Rand]

what about the verses saying Christians are unbelievers going to hell?

 

[morning_star777]

mr.Ed,read sura9:5,29,38,39.you will find that quran taught killing unbelievers where ever they find.and christian&jews also unbelievers according to quran.but quran ordered,"take tribute(life saving)from christians&jews"if they won’t convert.&for ur information i am an ex muslim.if you want then i will give more reference.but read those verses 1st.&if any christian think that quran is also GOD’S word then he/she should convert to islam.

 

[morning_star777]

oh one thing mr.Ed i believe that only holy bible is God’s word.but if any one will believe that except bible another book(like quran)is also GOD’S word then i don’t think that he/she is a christian because quran denied jesus as GOD,so christian can’t believe quran as GOD’S word.but atleast now i am not going to address any one as unbeliever because its a controversial point.some ppl think who deny jesus as GOD they are the true believers!

 

[inJESUS]

example :

The Jews call 'Uzair a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is the saying from their mouth; (In this) they are intimate; what the Unbelievers of the old used to say. Allah’s curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the truth. [Qur’an 9:30]

i dont think there is any mention of good works here…we are cursed because of our belief according to Muhammad.

I am a Christian who believes the Qur’an is also God’s word.

do you believe that God says Jesus was crucified and died yet 600 years later denies both? do you believe that God says Jesus is His Son and later curse us for believing this?

Would the Christians here call me an unbeliever because of my views on Islam?

the apostles died for preaching One path, and had hard time opposing heresies…they did not call them “different path” but heresies leading to damnation…the gnostic heresy about crucifixion is a damnation since it opposes the salvation of Christ, not another “path”…

 

[morning_star777]

now i am going to give my personal opinion so pls no argument.i believe that only jesus is the true way.and except christianity all ways are incorrect.only christianity is the true way from true GOD.

 

[Ed_Rand]

mr.Ed,read sura9:5,29,38,39.you will find that quran taught killing unbelievers where ever they find.and christian&jews also unbelievers according to quran.but quran ordered,"take tribute(life saving)from christians&jews"if they won’t convert.&for ur information i am an ex muslim.if you want then i will give more reference.but read those verses 1st.&if any christian think that quran is also GOD’S word then he/she should convert to islam.

I read those verses. I must say only verse 9:29 could possibly support your claim and I do recognize that the Qur’an does not say to simply ignore Christians, and yeah they’re supposed to pay tax and be second class, etc. However, there are a multitude of versus that divide the people of the Book into unbelievers and believers.

“They are not all alike; of the followers of the Book thre is an upright party; they recite Allah’s communications in the nighttime and the adore (Him). They believe in Allah and the last day, and they enjoin what is right and forbid the wrong, and they strive with one another in hastening to good deeds, and those are among the good. And whatever good they do, they shall not be denied it, and Allah knows those who guard (against evil).” Sura 3:113-115

Also, from my readings of the Qur’an, to be a Christian believer you have to allow for the Truth of Islam–extending to them the same courtesy that they’ve given us.

 

[Ed_Rand]

now i am going to give my personal opinion so pls no argument.i believe that only jesus is the true way.and except christianity all ways are incorrect.only christianity is the true way from true GOD.

Our church teaches that Jesus is written on the hearts of all. Even someone who has never heard of Jesus can meet us in heaven.

 

[Angelos]

I would expect that before you charge me with proof you would have looked into it yourself. Secondly, I’m a little perturbed by the fact that no one else has refuted this yet. A casual glance or knowledge of the Qur’an is all that’s required to know what I said is true.

I do not have to look into the Koran to see if your arguments are true since I had been a devout Muslim before converting to Christianity 14 years ago!

Although there are few verses in the Koran that praise SOME non-Muslim groups, most of the other verses condemn both Jews and Christians to Hell for not believing in Mohammad and his supposed revelation:

**
Surah 57:27**. Then We caused Our messengers to follow in their footsteps; and We caused Jesus, son of Mary, to follow, and gave him the Gospel, and placed compassion and mercy in the hearts of those who followed him. But monasticism they invented - We ordained it not for them - only seeking Allah’s pleasure, and they observed it not with right observance. So We give those of them who believe their reward, but many of them are evil-livers.

Surah 98: 4-6. Nor were the People of the Scripture divided until after the clear proof came unto them. And they are ordered naught else than to serve Allah, keeping religion pure for Him, as men by nature upright, and to establish worship and to pay the poor-due. That is true religion. Lo! **those who disbelieve, among the People of the Scripture and the idolaters, will abide in fire of hell. They are the worst of created beings. **

How can you deny or ignore the following verse about Christians?

Surah 5:14. And with those who say: “Lo! we are Christians,” We made a covenant, but they forgot a part of that whereof they were admonished. Therefore We have stirred up enmity and hatred among them till the Day of Resurrection, when Allah will inform them of their handiwork.

Surah 9:29.** Fight against such of those** who have been given the Scripture as believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, and forbid not that which Allah hath forbidden by His messenger, and follow not the Religion of Truth, until they pay the tribute readily, being brought low.

I could go on and on. This should be common knowledge to someone who has such a strong opinion on the subject. Also, a glance at history will tell you that Muslim societies were relatively tolerant of Christians and Jews. They had to pay extra taxes, their churches had to be smaller, and various other things. But the Muslim conquests were not all that bloody in some areas and the culture they brought was welcomed in others. One could reasonably argue that they were doves compared to the Christian societies of Europe at various stages throughout history.

You are once more falling into the Islamic trap and trying to judge Christianity by what SOME Christians did and still do.

I’d like to bring this back to the Bible passages I referenced earlier which seem to confirm some of my suspicions on God’s different plan for Israel and Ishmael’s decendants…

Those of you who are bashing the Qur’an without having given it serious thought, attributing it to Satan and such, explain to me why our text has God promise Abraham that he will make a nation of Ismael’s decendants. And then He hears Ishmael crying in the desert and the angel of the Lord promises Hagar that he will make Ishmael “into a great nation” and his decendants will be “too numerous to count”. Genesis 16:9-13, 21:8-18. Where else are these promises fullfilled but through Islam? A read through Romans 4 should also help us sort out the issues.

This argument of yours makes no sense to me, for God, who promises to make Ishmael into a great nation, by no means promises to endorse the religious teachings of a man that is of the same nation. Actually, the promise of God in the OT about Ishmael is not religious, but secular in essence.

 

[Ed_Rand]

I’d like to bring this back to the Bible passages I referenced earlier which seem to confirm some of my suspicions on God’s different plan for Israel and Ishmael’s decendants…

Those of you who are bashing the Qur’an without having given it serious thought, attributing it to Satan and such, explain to me why our text has God promise Abraham that he will make a nation of Ismael’s decendants. And then He hears Ishmael crying in the desert and the angel of the Lord promises Hagar that he will make Ishmael “into a great nation” and his decendants will be “too numerous to count”. Genesis 16:9-13, 21:8-18. Where else are these promises fullfilled but through Islam? A read through Romans 4 should also help us sort out the issues.

Is this topic not important enough? We are all brothers through Abraham, his way of righteousness and God’s promises to him apply to all of us.

 

[Angelos]

Is this topic not important enough? We are all brothers through Abraham, his way of righteousness and God’s promises to him apply to all of us.

Why don’t you go a bit further back in Biblical history and say we all are brothers through Noah and Adam? Why do you choose to start the notion of brotherhood from Abraham?

 

[Ed_Rand]

I do not have to look into the Koran to see if your arguments are true since I had been a devout Muslim before converting to Christianity 14 years ago!

Sorry for that statement I made. But I still think you are misrepresenting the Qur’an. None of the verses below contradicts what I have said. Some even help my case…

**
Surah 57:27**

Don’t you believe in Allah and the Last Day? None of this says “damned for being a Christian”. sorry. gotta go. I’ll be right back:thumbsup:

 

[Ed_Rand]

Why don’t you go a bit further back in Biblical history and say we all are brothers through Noah and Adam? Why do you choose to start the notion of brotherhood from Abraham?

Because Abraham is the father of our three faiths. All men are brothers through Adam, but Jews, Christians, and Muslims have a special bond through Abraham.

 

[inJESUS]

** the Christians call Christ the son of Allah.** That is the saying from their mouth; (In this) they are intimate; what the Unbelievers of the old used to say. Allah’s curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the truth. [Qur’an 9:30]

isn’t this clear enough that we are not talking about the same God?

 

[Angelos]

Sorry for that statement I made. But I still think you are misrepresenting the Qur’an. None of the verses below contradicts what I have said. Some even help my case…

You are blaming me ( a former Muslim) for deliberately misrepresenting the Koran? This is not a matter of misrepresentation, but of your willingness to ignore certain facts.

Thanks for emphasizing “many of them”. This is exactly what I have said earlier. So did Jesus, “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heavan, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.”

First, this is not Jesus speaking, but Mohammad’s scribes! Second, the verse I quoted goes against your presumption since it overtly asserts that MOST of the Christians are evil-livers.

None of the above says automatically damned to hell. Wouldn’t you agree that there has been much enmity and hatred among us Christians?

So you accept that ALL Christians are cursed by Allah, who put enmity and hatred amongst them until the day of judgment? Sorry, you cannot be a Christian if you believe in this faulty generalization made in the Koran. I must also remind you that the verse I quoted does not divide Christians into two distinct groups on the basis of their faith, but talks of Christians as ONE community equally punished and cursed by Mohammad’s Allah!

Don’t you believe in Allah and the Last Day? None of this says “damned for being a Christian”. sorry. gotta go. I’ll be right back:thumbsup:

In order to understand my point, you should read that verse again more carefully and focus on the phrase “those who do not follow the religion of truth”.

Ok. Take your time

 

[Angelos]

Because Abraham is the father of our three faiths. All men are brothers through Adam, but Jews, Christians, and Muslims have a special bond through Abraham.

Where IN THE BIBLE do you read that Abraham is the father of Islam?

 

[inJESUS]

Where IN THE BIBLE do you read that Abraham is the father of Islam?

maybe from the passages that talk about Ishmael in the Bible, combining it to Islamic belief that Ishmael is the father of Arabs or Muslims …

Muslims can be the descendants of Ishmael or any other creature they choose…this does not mean that Muhammad’s book was from God.

 

[morning_star777]

mr.Ed,hope you saw many contradictory verses in quran.or will see soon if you are reading this book.but if you will explain it in ur own way then its ur problem.the common faiths in muslims(according to their scripture)are,all non muslims will go to hell and will stay there forever.anyway hope the posts of brother inJESUS&mr.angelos will show you the reality.honestly speaking,both of them are very wise&very logical person.i read their many posts.

 

[morning_star777]

mr.Ed,actually Quran taught many historical blunder&mathematical blunder.sura5:116 claimed that christian trinity is father+mother(mary)+son.now tell me is it true?you are also a christian.so do you worship mother mary as goddess?also read sura4:11,12,176.you will find the mathematical error about inheritance law.now tell me can god make any ERROR?

 

[Ed_Rand]

Where IN THE BIBLE do you read that Abraham is the father of Islam?

Obviously, Islam is not mentioned in the Bible. The three major monotheistic religions claim decendency through Abraham, Christians and Jews through Isaac and Muslims through Ishmael–the son born because of Abraham and Sarah’s lack of faith in God’s promises.