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dolphinlove
Guest
Did you read the other posts? The proof is in there!
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Ed_Rand
Guest
You guys have proved that Jesus never got down in that position and prayed? That is quite interesting…
Let me just say, I think this whole conversation is ridiculous. But hey, don’t let up while you’re ahead!!! Never give an inch!!! We got this Mohammedan runnin’ scared!!!
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dolphinlove
Guest
Thats your prerogative, but if we dont correct and challenge these ‘ridiculous’ conversation as you put it, we will have other people/religions thinking the untruth about the church. We are here to support Jesus and show the true way he wants us to live, we stand up to the challenges people place before us to show them the real truth of Catholic/Christian churches.
If we, for example, have people claim we are idol worshippers, do you think its wise to let people think we are? I dont think so! The aim is to show people the truth and show them the truth about Jesus’ church.
Its not about getting Hamba up against the ropes, its pointing out the truth, big difference!
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swariffin
Guest
Why not. We can pray every where we want, including in the restroom (you can’t pray inside a restroom, can you?). No need for any statue, rosary or anything. No need to face to any specific direction either. When the JPII visited Arizona, for instance, the big mass was celebrated in a football stadium with no single cross inside.
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swariffin
Guest
Neither there is a proof that Jesus did prayed that specific way. Why the way of praying matters? It is what you pray matter. Why should God listen to me praying the way the muslims do if what I pray is the complete anihilation of a specific human race in this world.
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ralphinal
Guest
21Jesus declared, “Believe me, woman, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. 22You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews. 23Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. 24God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth.”
John 4:21-24.
We are to worship in spirit and truth. It is not about WHERE we look, WHERE we stand, HOW we move our bodies. No, it is about being in SPIRIT AND TRUTH.
John 4:21-24.
We are to worship in spirit and truth. It is not about WHERE we look, WHERE we stand, HOW we move our bodies. No, it is about being in SPIRIT AND TRUTH.
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hamba2han
Guest
When a Muslim prays or thanks God, he does so in the same fashion that was taught to Abraham, Moses, Jesus, and all of the previous prophets of Allah (peace be upon them all). You will find that when a Muslim prays, he places his forehead on the ground in total submission to God Almighty. Let us see how the prophets (including Jesus, pbuh) prayed:
Genesis 17:3 **“And Abram fell on his face: and God talked with him, saying,” **
Genesis 17:17 "Then Abraham fell upon his face, and laughed, and said in his heart, Shall a child be born unto him that is an hundred years old? and shall Sarah, that is ninety years old, bear?"
Exodus 34:8 "And Moses made haste, and bowed his head toward the earth, and worshipped."
Numbers 20:6 And Moses and Aaron went from the presence of the assembly unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, and they fell upon their faces: and the glory of the LORD appeared unto them.
Numbers 16:20-22 "And the LORD spake unto Moses and unto Aaron, saying, Separate yourselves from among this congregation, that I may consume them in a moment. And they fell upon their faces, and said, O God, the God of the spirits of all flesh, shall one man sin, and wilt thou be wroth with all the congregation?"
Nehemiah 8:6 And Ezra blessed the LORD, the great God. And all the people answered, Amen, Amen, with lifting up their hands: and they bowed their heads, and worshipped the LORD with [their] faces to the ground.
Joshua 5:14 "And he said, Nay; but as captain of the host of the LORD am I now come. And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and did worship, and said unto him, What saith my Lord unto his servant?"
Ezekiel 9:8 "And it came to pass, while they were slaying them, and I was left, that I fell upon my face, and cried, and said, Ah Lord GOD! wilt thou destroy all the residue of Israel in thy pouring out of thy fury upon Jerusalem?"
2 Chronicles 20:18 "And Jehoshaphat bowed his head with his face to the ground: and all Judah and the inhabitants of Jerusalem fell before the LORD, worshipping the LORD."
Ezekiel 11:13 "And it came to pass, when I prophesied, that Pelatiah the son of Benaiah died. Then fell I down upon my face, and cried with a loud voice, and said, Ah Lord GOD! wilt thou make a full end of the remnant of Israel?"
Matthew 17:6 "And when the disciples heard it, they fell on their face, and were sore afraid."
Matthew 26:39 "And he (Jesus) went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt."
And so, we can see that falling on their faces when praying is really how all the prophets prayed according to the Bible, including Jesus (pbuh) of course.
Why then are people on these message boards so reluctant to prostrate before their Lord when praying to Him?
Is it their pride that is preventing them from prostrating like Jesus (pbuh) did when he prayed to God?
And is it not pride that got Satan expelled from Heaven according to the Bible?
Genesis 17:3 **“And Abram fell on his face: and God talked with him, saying,” **
Genesis 17:17 "Then Abraham fell upon his face, and laughed, and said in his heart, Shall a child be born unto him that is an hundred years old? and shall Sarah, that is ninety years old, bear?"
Exodus 34:8 "And Moses made haste, and bowed his head toward the earth, and worshipped."
Numbers 20:6 And Moses and Aaron went from the presence of the assembly unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, and they fell upon their faces: and the glory of the LORD appeared unto them.
Numbers 16:20-22 "And the LORD spake unto Moses and unto Aaron, saying, Separate yourselves from among this congregation, that I may consume them in a moment. And they fell upon their faces, and said, O God, the God of the spirits of all flesh, shall one man sin, and wilt thou be wroth with all the congregation?"
Nehemiah 8:6 And Ezra blessed the LORD, the great God. And all the people answered, Amen, Amen, with lifting up their hands: and they bowed their heads, and worshipped the LORD with [their] faces to the ground.
Joshua 5:14 "And he said, Nay; but as captain of the host of the LORD am I now come. And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and did worship, and said unto him, What saith my Lord unto his servant?"
Ezekiel 9:8 "And it came to pass, while they were slaying them, and I was left, that I fell upon my face, and cried, and said, Ah Lord GOD! wilt thou destroy all the residue of Israel in thy pouring out of thy fury upon Jerusalem?"
2 Chronicles 20:18 "And Jehoshaphat bowed his head with his face to the ground: and all Judah and the inhabitants of Jerusalem fell before the LORD, worshipping the LORD."
Ezekiel 11:13 "And it came to pass, when I prophesied, that Pelatiah the son of Benaiah died. Then fell I down upon my face, and cried with a loud voice, and said, Ah Lord GOD! wilt thou make a full end of the remnant of Israel?"
Matthew 17:6 "And when the disciples heard it, they fell on their face, and were sore afraid."
Matthew 26:39 "And he (Jesus) went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt."
And so, we can see that falling on their faces when praying is really how all the prophets prayed according to the Bible, including Jesus (pbuh) of course.
Why then are people on these message boards so reluctant to prostrate before their Lord when praying to Him?
Is it their pride that is preventing them from prostrating like Jesus (pbuh) did when he prayed to God?
And is it not pride that got Satan expelled from Heaven according to the Bible?
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Ed_Rand
Guest
Thank you. I really didn’t think this point had to be proved, but I guess it can’t hurt. That’s why I called this whole conversation ridiculous. I like to use the Muslim posture when I pray. What does this mean? Nothing.
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Angelos
Guest
Although falling face down is an obligatory gesture of the Islamic salaat, there is nothing in the Bible that shows it was considered by God/prophets/believers an indispensable element of worship. Nowhere in the New Testament does Jesus instruct His disciples to do homage or fall face down while praying so that their worship be valid!
However, We Christians bow our heads to the ground and fall prostrate before our crucified Lord on the ceremonies of Holy Friday.
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ralphinal
Guest
It means that you feel closer to God in that position. For you, it is there that you find spirit. Truth is another story.
There is no corect position as mandated by Jesus. Why? Because it is about a state of the soul not a state of the body.
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dolphinlove
Guest
Notice all the quotes you have pulled out of the bible, the people themselves fell to the ground, God did not command them to do this, they fell to the ground of their own free will.
However, it does say this in the bible:
Romans 14:11
For the scripture says, “As surely as I am the living God, says the Lord, everyone will kneel before me, and everyone will confess that I am God”
It is not our pride that stops us from praying like that, its cause God commanded us to kneel
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inJESUS
Guest
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hamba2han
Guest
Islam teaches that on the Day of Judgment when we will meet our Creator, only the creations who have been willingly prostrating to Him while in this world will be allowed to prostrate to Him then.
On that Day, we will not be in control of our bodies and the creations who do not prostrate to their Creator while they still had every opportunity to do so while in this world, will simply be unable to prostrate to Him no matter how much they would want to then.
And so remember folks, prostrating to the Lord is a right that God gives to everyone only in this world… but in the Hereafter, this right will no longer exist and prostrating to the Almighty then will only be a privilege accorded to those who have willingly and wholeheartedly done so while they were still in this world.
On that Day, we will not be in control of our bodies and the creations who do not prostrate to their Creator while they still had every opportunity to do so while in this world, will simply be unable to prostrate to Him no matter how much they would want to then.
And so remember folks, prostrating to the Lord is a right that God gives to everyone only in this world… but in the Hereafter, this right will no longer exist and prostrating to the Almighty then will only be a privilege accorded to those who have willingly and wholeheartedly done so while they were still in this world.
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ralphinal
Guest
And we are taught in Mark’s Gospel that not everyone who says “Lord, Lord” will be saved, only those who do the will of Jesus.
WE worship in spirit and truth. We serve others because of our love for God. We know that Jesus came from Heaven, suffered, died and rose again.
It is not about what position we pray in, or direction, or where we choose to go to worship. It is about doing God’s will on earth.
WE worship in spirit and truth. We serve others because of our love for God. We know that Jesus came from Heaven, suffered, died and rose again.
It is not about what position we pray in, or direction, or where we choose to go to worship. It is about doing God’s will on earth.
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hamba2han
Guest
The Bible states that Jesus (pbuh) prostrated to God and his disciples followed him by also prostrating to their Lord.
Matthew 17:6 "And when the disciples heard it, they fell on their face, and were sore afraid."
Christians who are reluctant to prostrate to God really do need to ask themselves and honestly answer the question as to why they are NOT following Jesus (pbuh) and his disciples in the way that they worshipped God.
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inJESUS
Guest
ok good luck but this is not what God says in the Bible.
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inJESUS
Guest
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hamba2han
Guest
The Bible states that Jesus (pbuh) prostrated to God.
The Bible states that his disciples prostrated to God.
Modern-day “followers of Jesus” in Christianity however, are reluctant to prostrate to God… and instead prefer to pray to statues and graven images i.e. something that Jesus (pbuh) and his disciples NEVER did.
Walk me through your thought process here – How exactly are you following Jesus (pbuh) in the way that he and his disciples worshipped God??
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inJESUS
Guest
Then King David went in and sat before the LORD and said, "Who am I, Lord GOD, and who are the members of my house, that you have brought me to this point?
When you stand to pray, forgive anyone against whom you have a grievance…Mark 11
Jesus is talking.
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Angelos
Guest
The disciples fell on their face NOT because that was the obligatory gesture during regular prayer/worship, BUT because they were afraid of the Theophany. Actually they were so afraid that they did not want to open their eyes to see what was going on and this was why they fell face down.
Nothing in that verse to prove your arguments so far!.
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