Jesus use of Hyperbole

[john8791]

In a recent “This Rock” magazine, there was an article (I believe by Mark Brumley) entitled “Was Jesus a Socialist”? He explains that many of Jesus’ comments that would seem to favor socialism are actually a use of Hyperbole. While I agree with his premise, how would one answer the critic who might argue that Jesus used Hyperbole in John 6:51-56 where he tells the people they must eat his flesh and drink his blood to have eternal life?

 

[Verbum]

Hi John,

It is inconceivable that Jesus would make a hyperbole (a figure of speech) the supreme test for being one of his disciples. He as much as said,`“If you don’t believe what I just said, please leave!”

Verbum

 

[AntalKalnoky]

In a recent “This Rock” magazine, there was an article (I believe by Mark Brumley) entitled “Was Jesus a Socialist”? He explains that many of Jesus’ comments that would seem to favor socialism are actually a use of Hyperbole. While I agree with his premise, how would one answer the critic who might argue that Jesus used Hyperbole in John 6:51-56 where he tells the people they must eat his flesh and drink his blood to have eternal life?

That has Nothing to do with politics; Our Lord was Teaching in the language/culture of the time that we Need his Presence In the Eucharist (Daily Mass) to have The Strength for life’s problems. The Aramaic Christ Spoke did not have fancy words, nor were the people educated.

 

[mcrow]

I really hate it when people want to attach politcal terms to Jesus.

Jesus was the perfect balance of all politcal thought and systems, you could literally make arguements about being socialist or conservative and anything in between.

 

[john8791]

I really hate it when people want to attach politcal terms to Jesus.

Jesus was the perfect balance of all political thought and systems, you could literally make arguments about being socialist or conservative and anything in between.

Maybe. Scripture teaches us to obey legitimate authority (Romans 13:4), and render unto Caesar what is Caesar’s and to God what is God’s.

I believe the point in this particular article was that Jesus does not forbid private property ownership and wealth. The line is crossed when we value the possessions and wealth more than our relationship with God and our neighbor. Even socialism with the best of intentions at best fails, and worse becomes totalitarian. Look at the Amana Colonies in Iowa. Their system of peaceful communism lasted about as long as communism in the Soviet Union. Human nature just doesn’t work that way.

 

[Garyjohn2]

Going back to the body and blood thing, he seems to be very clear on this. He repeats it 3 times I believe.

Also, with many of his hyperbole and parables, he would explain the meanings later to his disciples. It was not the case with this teaching…he instead said to his disciples, “are you going to leave to?”

 

[john8791]

Going back to the body and blood thing, he seems to be very clear on this. He repeats it 3 times I believe.

Also, with many of his hyperbole and parables, he would explain the meanings later to his disciples. It was not the case with this teaching…he instead said to his disciples, “are you going to leave to?”

Very good point. He does say “Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you.” I had not thought about the qualifier “Amen Amen” when I first posted.

 

[promethius]

Even socialism with the best of intentions at best fails, and worse becomes totalitarian.

Worse. Socialism at it’s very best is an affront against God and His love for each of us as individuals.

I would love for anyone to point out to me where Jesus advocates SOCIALISM (of course, I’ll preemptively point out that advocating individual charity is FAR different from advocating socialism and its dogmas).

 

[AntalKalnoky]

Worse. Socialism at it’s very best is an affront against God and His love for each of us as individuals.

I would love for anyone to point out to me where Jesus advocates SOCIALISM (of course, I’ll preemptively point out that advocating individual charity is FAR different from advocating socialism and its dogmas).

• promethius, do you even know what ‘socialism’ is? Don’t cloistered Nuns, Brothers, Monks live in shared self-supporting housing, not For Profit? Ditto very many examples. Didn’t Our Lord tell the Apostles to Leave Friends, Family, And Earthly Goods and Follow Him? “Socialism”, which is everywhere in the world, and Most Efficient economically, has been Falselly Pictured as Evil Personified. Look up what Socialism Is, please

. Please explain try to explain how/why “Socialism at it’s very best is an affront against God” Per Se

Not aware of both John Paul II The Great and recently Pope Benedict’s Encyclicals criticized the extremes of each, Especially the Extremes of Capitalism that Caused the 2000’s Massive World economic collapse that Taxpayers through Government are still trying to save: severe Crisis in the Entire World?
Moderation, Balance is what succeeds: fair to all. unbiased Facts blow common myths and self serving propaganda away. We lived under Hitler’s Propaganda until I was 4; and I’ve made it a point to Study How/Why he did, and always Watch for damagibng false propaganda here, Especially Using Christ or Church inapropriatylly
Not aware that the Most Taxed, most ‘socialilist’ Countries: Scandinazvian, Always Lead the USA in PER CAPITA Personal Donations in Crises, like the flooding in SE Asia, etc., etc.? And guess Where the Highest Standard of Living Nations Are: The Heavily “Socialist” Nations like Iceland, Norway? We rank far from the top.

 

[Garyjohn2]

Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold,
And laid them down at the apostles’ feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.
Acts 4:34-35

Sounds kind of like socialism…but closer to Communism!!! Sound the alarms!

Seriously though, we should be careful to put labels on things and condemn them outright before really thinking about it! The kingdom of God, the building of which was started by Christ, will have attributes of other man made government systems…but there’s no use in comparing them so closely I don’t think. All forms of government have pros and cons. ALL FORMS! But the Kingdom of God will be different.

 

[john8791]

Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold,
And laid them down at the apostles’ feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.
Acts 4:34-35

Sounds kind of like socialism…but closer to Communism!!! Sound the alarms!

Seriously though, we should be careful to put labels on things and condemn them outright before really thinking about it!

I believe this was done out of necessity for the survival of the early Christian community because of Roman persecution, not as a model for society. Remember there was genocide going on at the time the temple was destroyed in 70AD. Read some Josephus to get an idea what that was like.

 

[Garyjohn2]

I believe this was done out of necessity for the survival of the early Christian community because of Roman persecution, not as a model for society. Remember there was genocide going on at the time the temple was destroyed in 70AD. Read some Josephus to get an idea what that was like.

At this time, I’m not so sure. The particular section of acts does not sound like an underground church in hiding.

Insomuch that they brought forth the sick into the streets, and laid them on beds and couches, that at the least the shadow of Peter passing by might overshadow some of them.
There came also a multitude out of the cities round about unto Jerusalem, bringing sick folks, and them which were vexed with unclean spirits: and they were healed every one.
Acts 5:15-16

I’m not sure if this is God’s plan for all of society at all times, but I know it is a model society, and the early church!

 

[mcrow]

*]promethius, do you even know what ‘socialism’ is? Don’t cloistered Nuns, Brothers, Monks live in shared self-supporting housing, not For Profit? Ditto very many examples. Didn’t Our Lord tell the Apostles to Leave Friends, Family, And Earthly Goods and Follow Him? “Socialism”, which is everywhere in the world, and Most Efficient economically, has been Falselly Pictured as Evil Personified. Look up what Socialism Is, please

People in orders typically are there of their own desire to be there. People in communist and socialist governements mostly are not.

Please explain try to explain how/why “Socialism at it’s very best is an affront against God” Per Se

I wouldn’t go that that far. If Socialism could be pulled off and not be abused by the leaders (Has not happened yet in the history of the planet), it would be great. Everyone would have access to food,water,clean living conditons, healthcare…ect. The problem is it is always abused, so it cannot work.

Not aware of both Jihn Pauul The greatr ande recently Pope Benedict’s Encyclicals: criticizing the Extremes of each, Especially the Extremes of Capitalism that Caused the 2000’s Massive World economic Severe Crisis on the Entire World?

Capitolism, yet another politcal buzzword on your part. The real definition of capotilism is

an economic system in which investment in and ownership of the means of production, distribution, and exchange of wealth is made and maintained chiefly by private individuals or corporations, especially as contrasted to cooperatively or state-owned means of wealth.

Where as certain people have made the term to mean evil, money grubbing corporations and executives. Capitalism is just privately owned business people trying to make money. Granted, some people will go overboard and even break the law to speed capitalism up for them. However, the cutthroat nature that always gets the news isn’t how 90% of capitalism is used in the real world.

 

[john8791]

At this time, I’m not so sure. The particular section of acts does not sound like an underground church in hiding.

Insomuch that they brought forth the sick into the streets, and laid them on beds and couches, that at the least the shadow of Peter passing by might overshadow some of them.
There came also a multitude out of the cities round about unto Jerusalem, bringing sick folks, and them which were vexed with unclean spirits: and they were healed every one.
Acts 5:15-16

I’m not sure if this is God’s plan for all of society at all times, but I know it is a model society, and the early church!

Here is a link to Pope Leo XIII’s Encyclical Rerum Novarum

Here is what he has to say about Socialism/Redistribution of wealth:

To remedy these wrongs the socialists, working on the poor man’s envy of the rich, are striving to do away with private property, and contend that individual possessions should become the common property of all, to be administered by the State or by municipal bodies. They hold that by thus transferring property from private individuals to the community, the present mischievous state of things will be set to rights, inasmuch as each citizen will then get his fair share of whatever there is to enjoy. But their contentions are so clearly powerless to end the controversy that were they carried into effect the working man himself would be among the first to suffer. They are, moreover, emphatically unjust, for they would rob the lawful possessor, distort the functions of the State, and create utter confusion in the community.

 

[jcrichton]

In a recent “This Rock” magazine, there was an article (I believe by Mark Brumley) entitled “Was Jesus a Socialist”? He explains that many of Jesus’ comments that would seem to favor socialism are actually a use of Hyperbole. While I agree with his premise, how would one answer the critic who might argue that Jesus used Hyperbole in John 6:51-56 where he tells the people they must eat his flesh and drink his blood to have eternal life?

…I’ve not read the book and hate the guy!

…did I just use a hyperbole?

Why would Jesus speak to people in terms that were quite common and then use exaggerated speech? …extravagant exaggerated speech?

I insist that the problem with “scholars” and “theologeans” is that they want to be the “it” in “it” and cannot do so if they just study something (as Scriptures) to seek the Truth!

…so Jesus sees His followers running from Him and He runs after them begging them to undestand that “it’s only a form of expression, please, please, don’t leave…” is that what happened?

No!

When people felt their feathers being ruffled, Jesus insisted: 'must eat my flesh and drink my blood." Yeah, quite an attention gatherer… how many disciples stayed when Jesus insisted in using that particular hyperbole?

…and there’s no devil nor hell and when we die we all come back as someone/something better–gee, that must have been my great, great, great, great, great, uncle/aunt/pop/mom I sprayed last night when I went to the kitchen…

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[nosmelc]

Worse. Socialism at it’s very best is an affront against God and His love for each of us as individuals.

I would love for anyone to point out to me where Jesus advocates SOCIALISM (of course, I’ll preemptively point out that advocating individual charity is FAR different from advocating socialism and its dogmas).

 

[nosmelc]

i don’t know where Jesus is supposed to have advocated socialism but it is clear that he was anti-capitalism which has but one law: if it makes money it is good. Jesus is quoted exactly at least three times saying : “it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to get into heaven.” In other words rich people all go to hell!

 

[john8791]

i don’t know where Jesus is supposed to have advocated socialism but it is clear that he was anti-capitalism which has but one law: if it makes money it is good. Jesus is quoted exactly at least three times saying : “it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to get into heaven.” In other words rich people all go to hell!

If it makes money it is good? Where did you get the idea that all Capitalists think that? Are some capitalists ruled by greed? Sure. There are bad apples in any group. Let’s look at the great Socialist icons: Joseph Stalin killed at least 20 million people, Mao Zedong caused the death of over 40 million by his policies. Che Guevara whose image we see on the T-shirts of young socialists was a mass murderer. Are these people your heroes? Are they in heaven? They weren’t capitalists so they must be by your standards.

 

[Fr_of_Jazz]

In a recent “This Rock” magazine, there was an article (I believe by Mark Brumley) entitled “Was Jesus a Socialist”? He explains that many of Jesus’ comments that would seem to favor socialism are actually a use of Hyperbole. While I agree with his premise, how would one answer the critic who might argue that Jesus used Hyperbole in John 6:51-56 where he tells the people they must eat his flesh and drink his blood to have eternal life?

The discourse of Jesus in Jn 6 has two parts. Both are important:
(A) vv 35-50 – Jesus, the bread of life, nourishing us in His TEACHING and in our personal RELATIONSHIP with Him.
–a transition in v 51 - “and the bread that I will give is my flesh for the life of the world.”
(B) vv 52-58 – Jesus, the bread of life, nourishing us as the true Passover Lamb, who gives His slain body and spilled blood for the life of the world.

In both (A) and (B) as elsewhere in his gospel John uses the protests of “the Jews” as foils to stress Jesus affirmative, literal meaning.

In the case of (A), in 6:41 he narrates that “the Jews” challenge how Jesus can have come down from heaven; and John also recounts Jesus’ affirmative, literal answer (6:43-50, esp. v 46) which comports with His same teaching elsewhere (e.g., Jn 1:18; 3:13,31).

We than transition in 6:51 from the first part to the second part.

Again in (B) the pointed protestations of “the Jews” (6:52) serve as a foil for Jesus’ affirmative, literal answer (6:52-58) that is nothing short of in your face as to its meaning. He says it 6 times in 7 verses–that we must eat his body and drink his blood.

It should be noted that “the Jews” also protest Jesus’ statement that Abraham saw His day and was glad (8:56). The author again narrates Jesus’ affirmative, literal response (8:58-59). Later these are “the Jews” who also want to stone Jesus in protest for saying He and the Father are one (10:30-31). He again goes on to give a literal, affirmative response (10:32-39). In all these cases (including 6:41,52) “the Jews” understood exactly what Jesus meant and he reaffirms it.

Back to Jn 6, next the evangelist notes that even some of Jesus’ “disciples” were perplexed (6:60) and He responds by asking if this teaching “shocks” them, and then says something else that He will literally do: ascend into heaven. And then the gospel writer comments that because of this teaching many of Jesus’ disciples left (v 66). Even this did not cause Jesus or the evangelist to allegorize, apologize, tone it down.

 

[jcrichton]

i don’t know where Jesus is supposed to have advocated socialism but it is clear that he was anti-capitalism which has but one law: if it makes money it is good. Jesus is quoted exactly at least three times saying : “it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to get into heaven.” In other words rich people all go to hell!

No. Jesus did not state that the rich go to hell; Jesus expressed the Truth: those with wealth become attached to it and, for the most part, reject Yahweh God because He demands that we live a just life, that we not oppress others and that we share the wealth–not for glory’s sake but for God’s sake… check out Jesus’ observation on the old lady that offered to God the only coins she had on which to survice vs. the wealthy that dropped bundles in order to have the bystanders stroke their ego!

It is from that reality that Jesus speaks and we witness it daily as those who have constantly seek to gain more and more at the expense of those who have very little; I also suspect that the immoral life that is experienced by those who abuse money and power is also behind Jesus’ observation!

Maran atha!

Angel