Jesus vs Muhammad

[Moro_Rock]

The Deuteronomic Covenant was all of the additional ceremonial laws which God imposed upon the Israelites after the incident of the Golden Calf because of their idolatry - a sort of penitential discipline that was to last until their hearts were cleansed by faith. These are the unique laws in Deuteronomy, first added in Leviticus during the 40 years wandering in the desert, then it became permanently installed after the second generation rebellion at Baal Phogor in Numbers 25
From then on , in addition to the Ten Commandments, the Simple Law that had been given before the Golden Calf incident there are all the additional penitential ceremonies added on to the Ten Commandments. This constituted a ceremonial yoke which isolated and quarantined Israel from the nations. The coming of the Holy Spirit changed all that.
In the Old Testament:
If I touched a leper I was unclean
If I touched a corpse I was unclean
If I touched a menstruating woman I was unclean
Jesus comes along. A leper touches Him. He is not defiled, but the leper is cleansed
Jesus touches a corpse.He is not defiled.The corpse is raised to life.
Jesus is touched by a menstruating woman, a woman who is haemorraging .He is not defiled, but her blood flow stops.
The New Covenant with Christ. Now the power of holiness greatly exceeds the power of sinfulness. The walls of isolation and quarantine are falling down.
Read Acts Ch.15 Peter is saying " Listen to me, these laws are no longer needed because the Holy Spirit has cleansed our hearts by faith and the gentiles as well. God has lifted the yoke from us which neither we nor our fathers were able to bear. And all the assembly kept silent"

Every Christian is bound to keep the Ten Commandments

 

[LtTony]

Excellent point, moro. It is one that I have never seen mentioned before in the incessant regurgitation of muslim objections to christianity.

Hamba studies from the islamic school of Deedat… that’s all he knows, that’s all he posts…

He still has not answered my question as to why the muslims follow the Jewish dietary law of Leviticus of not eating pork, but Leviticuts also states that camel/hare & lizard is forbidden

**Muslims eat camel/hare & lizard… **

I still have not received an answer.

Could it because the islamic school of Deedat dodged that inquiry…???

There is definitely an inconsistency in Deedat’s arguments. Come to think of it, your questions has been asked before here and other forums; I don’t recall any answer, although there may have been one.

 

[LaSalle]

Jesus vs Muhammad

Two diametrically opposite figures in history. Two diametrically opposite messages from these men.

One a God become man, the other a man became… what? A God in his own mind? Allah? This is what I believe to be true, that Allah is only whatever Muhammad wanted him to be. When he started out with the idea of Islam, he fashioned Allah as a peaceful sort. When he was rejected, when he migrated to Medina his Allah became violent, angry, deceptive, very much concerned with Muhammad’s sexual dalliances.

Most of the time the Muslims tell us we are not behaving as good Christians (I have gotten that from Facebook and other blog sites, but they think that knowing what their scriptures say is misbehaving or being hateful. Is it? I don’t think so. I think that not telling the truth is dangerous to others in case we lead them astray.

Here are some comparisons that I have been accumulating between these two:

Muhammad: “I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify that there is no god but Allah and that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah” (Muslim 1:33)
Jesus: “He who lives by the sword will die by the sword.” (Matthew 26:52)

Muhammad: Stoned women for adultery. (Sahih Muslim 4206)
Jesus: “Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.”(John 8:7)

Muhammad: Permitted stealing from unbelievers. (Bukhari 44:668, Ibn Ishaq 764)
Jesus: “Thou shalt not steal.” (Matthew 19:18)

Muhammad: Permitted lying. (Sahih Muslim 6303, Bukhari 49:857)
Jesus: “Thou shalt not bear false witness.”(Matthew 19:18)

Muhammad: Owned and traded slaves. (Sahih Muslim 3901)
Jesus: Neither owned nor traded slaves.

Muhammad: Beheaded 800 Jewish men and boys. (Sahih Muslim 4390)
Jesus: Beheaded no one.

Muhammad: Murdered those who insulted him. (Bukhari 56:369, 4:241)
Jesus: Preached forgiveness. (Matthew 18:21-22, 5:38)

Muhammad: “If then anyone transgresses the prohibition against you, Transgress ye likewise against him” (Qur’an 2:194)
Jesus: “If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also.”(Matthew 5:39)

Muhammad: Jihad in the way of Allah elevates one’s position in Paradise by a hundred fold. (Muslim 4645) "
Jesus: Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called Sons of God" (Matthew 5:9)

Muhammad: Married 13 wives and kept sex slaves. (Bukhari 5:268, Qur’an 33:50)
Jesus: Was celibate.

Muhammad: Slept with a 9-year-old child. (Sahih Muslim 3309, Bukhari 58:236)
Jesus: Did not have sex with children.

Muhammad: Ordered the murder of women. (Ibn Ishaq 819, 995)
Jesus: Never harmed a woman.

Muhammad: Ordered 65 military campaigns and raids in his last 10 years (Ibn Ishaq)
Jesus: Ordered no military campaigns, nor offered any approval of war or violence.

Muhammad: Encouraged his men to rape enslaved women. (Abu Dawood 2150, Qur’an 4:24)
Jesus: Never encouraged rape. Never enslaved women.

Muhammad: Demanded captured slaves and a fifth of all other loot taken in war. (Qur’an 8:41)
Jesus: “The Son of Man came not to be served, but to serve.”(Matthew 20:28)

Muhammad: “And fight them until there is no more persecution and religion is only for Allah”(Qur’an 8:39)
Jesus: “Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you” (Matthew 5:44)

Muhammad: What are the Greatest Commandments?“Belief in Allah and Jihad in His cause” (Muslim 1:149)
Jesus: What are the Greatest Commandments? “Love God and love thy neighbor as thyself.” (Matthew 22:34-40)

Muhammad: Demanded the protection of armed bodyguards, even in a house of worship (Qur’an 4:102)
Jesus: Chastised anyone attempting to defend him with force. (John 18:10-12)

Muhammad: Died fat and wealthy from what was taken from others in war or demanded from others in tribute.
Jesus: Demanded nothing for himself. Died without possessions.

Muhammad: Advocated crucifying others (Qur’an 5:33, Muslim 16:4131)
Jesus: Was crucified himself.

Muhammad: According to his followers: Had others give their lives for him. (Sahih Muslim 4413)
Jesus: According to his followers: Gave his life for others. (John 18:11 and elsewhere)

There are other things, obviously, that I left out. But I tried to pick the things that truly show the character of the men I am discussing.

Your referrences are incorrect. I checked a few and they were totally off. The least you could have done was to ensure this was accurate … but I guess it was just a cut and paste exercise for you, eh?

 

[seraphime2008]

Why should Christians be concentrating on what Peter may have said in the Bible on the subject of swine?

Let us instead focus on what Jesus (pbuh) himself has said on the subject according to the Bible.

Jesus (pbuh) considered pigs such filthy and disgusting animals that not only did he never taste their flesh, but he literally considered them so lowly that they were only fit as garbage dumps for devils. In Matthew 8:31-32, we read:

"So the devils besought him, saying, If thou cast us out, suffer us to go away into the herd of swine And he said unto them, Go. And when they were come out, they went into the herd of swine: and, behold, the whole herd of swine ran violently down a steep place into the sea, and perished in the waters…"

Well then, since Jesus (pbuh) has stated his position on the subject of swine so clearly in the Bible, why on earth are Christians so insistent on consuming pork?

I wonder when did exactly Muhammad got a revelation to prohibit eating pork?
I supposed he only learned it from the Jew, so before that law was introduced somewhere sometime, those early Muslims and Muhammad was still serving pork at their dining table, heh…?

Many muslims that I know were thinking that there should be some reason as to why pork was prohibited, if it comes with some health issues, then address the matter accordingly, whether the cooking method or the amount of eating.

And too bad you don’t eat pork, it’s supposed to be the best meat ever! HA…HA…!!!
Muhammad had deceived you of not getting the advantage of what God has provided us…

 

[planten]

I wonder when did exactly Muhammad got a revelation to prohibit eating pork?
I** supposed **he only learned it from the Jew, so before that law was introduced somewhere sometime, those early Muslims and Muhammad was still serving pork at their dining table, heh…?

Many muslims that I know were thinking that there should be some reason as to why pork was prohibited, if it comes with some health issues, then address the matter accordingly, whether the cooking method or the amount of eating.

And too bad you don’t eat pork, it’s supposed to be the best meat ever! HA…HA…!!!
Muhammad had deceived you of not getting the advantage of what God has provided us…

How bad? You suppose things. And you go against the practice of Jesus… Also against his clear teachings.

 

[seraphime2008]

L S, I read. In your post #450, you have not replied properly to the post #439 of hamba. You have simply quoted Romans 7:6. That is just one sentence. You have not replied to the objections. We know that Paul called the law as a curse, in whatever way. He said that Jesus had redeemed the christians from the curse of the law by giving his life. Paul had no right to make such a bold declaration.
After all some one has told you that the law of Moses does not apply to you. That is why you people eat pork and you are against divorce and against remarriage and so many other things.

Jesus himself said that whatever God had united, no man should divide. It’s the teaching of Christ himself to purify the purpose of marriage. Remarriage was never approved, even by Moses himself. You clearly don’t know what the OT law, and you came here voicing with your big mouth saying otherwise!!! Check with the bible, it has never been approved! It was not the teaching of Paul…!!! You’re away from what God had established, Muhammad had led you astray!

Who has released you from practicing the law of Moses? It was Paul, the enemy of Jesus. Or you can tell me some other name please. Who has advised you not to act on the law of Moses??

No, Paul had never said that we’re not to act on the law of Moses. On the other hand, Muhammad had clearly shown that he had not even follow either one law of the 10 commandments!
And please, if you understand the law of Moses, please tell us exactly what you know about the law of Moses. If it’s the 10 commandments, we all Christians are adhered to it.But if it is about other law that you might have known better,please enlighten us with what you mean by the Moses’ law??? We will compare it with what you have in Koran, I suppose your Koran will not cover the same thing!

Now you say that paul is a saint. make him a god too. We do not care and we will not discuss Paul with you again. It is our final info for you that Paul is not in our books except as an enemy of Jesus. You may honor or worship Paul, if you like. He is all over your bible. He played down Mary too. Paul never said a word of praise for Mary. He was a false person. That is why he was beheaded. That was according to Deut 18:20 which says that a false prophet will be killed.

Paul’s teaching are even better than what you have in ur Koran. Please read his epistles, is there anything that you’re against of other than your accusation that he said that the law was cursed (for you bent the whole meaning out of no understanding). Anything…please…! He even covered the good government, he even covered how we have to work or perform our duties, he covered what considered evil like taking someone’s wife , but contrary your hero Muhammad clearly did that atrocious act! C’mon…are you that blind to see the difference of evil and virtue?

 

[seraphime2008]

How bad? You suppose things. And you go against the practice of Jesus… Also against his clear teachings.

So when did Muhammad get the revelation of not eating pork?
When?..When…? It’s not that he got it from the beginning of his life right? So that can only mean that he ate it before…ISn’t it easy to understand???

 

[seraphime2008]

How bad? You suppose things. And you go against the practice of Jesus… Also against his clear teachings.

No…never I heard Jesus explicitly say that we’re to free ourselves from eating what we can…( I mean edible…!). He said that whatever comes into our mouth won’t defile us, but what comes out would if it comes with pride…lies…hate…so on…!!!
So to you if man observe this dietary prohibition but he says dirty things toward his fellow human being, he is still ok /accepted gladly by God…?

Hei…some fellow Muslims friend of mine do eat pork…! They would say that whatever comes to their mouth that won’t make them feel unwell or puke is ok…!!! That’s the reasoning that goes with logic.

 

[planten]

No…never I heard Jesus explicitly say that we’re to free ourselves from eating what we can…( I mean edible…!). He said that whatever comes into our mouth won’t defile us, but what comes out would if it comes with pride…lies…hate…so on…!!!
So to you if man observe this dietary prohibition but he says dirty things toward his fellow human being, he is still ok /accepted gladly by God…?

Hei…some fellow Muslims friend of mine do eat pork…! They would say that whatever comes to their mouth that won’t make them feel unwell or puke is ok…!!! That’s the reasoning that goes with logic.

seraphime, we do not stop you from eating the flesh of swine because it is so dear to you. We see that a swine is more near and dear to you than Jesus. So be it. You can celebrate it.

 

[planten]

Also, seraphime, we know what Jesus meany by saying 'What goes in does ul[BIBLEDRB]. [/BIBLEDRB]defile…"

But you have taken the wrong meanings of Jesus sayings. You should remember that you become what you eat. If you eat chicken you become a chicken. If you eat vegetables, you become a cow. If you eat meat, you become a tiger or wolf or eagle.

So I see that by eating swine, you are becoming a swine. That is the natural consequence. By eating the flesh of swine (which was allowed to you by Paul. He took christianity to greece. He wanted to please the Greeks and permitted eating of swine because they loved it too much.)you have disgraced Jesus.

You should remember other rules too.

1. What goes up must come down.
2. What goes in must come out.

According to rule 2 above, swine is constantly going into you. So swine will come out. That is like becoming a terribly bad smelling shameless animal. Celebrate. Perhaps you should forget the holy spirit ever visiting you. I am sure any one eating pork , Ham, bacon should forget about the holy spirit.

How can you claim any relation with the holy spirit by eating the most unholy animal flesh???

 

[seraphime2008]

seraphime, we do not stop you from eating the flesh of swine because it is so dear to you. We see that a swine is more near and dear to you than Jesus. So be it. You can celebrate it.

Bah…now you’re accusing me and other Christians to prefer swine than Jesus…:tsktsk:…
.:tsktsk:…We can see that you’re the one that is a hyprochrite! Please spare me that lies that you’re accusing…

You don’t understand the basic principle of law…you’re just insisting that people are made for law!!! Go…live with that! I don’t bother either! Celebrate your sharia law that makes people’s way shrink into the 13th century mentality! But don’t tell others that it is made for all!!

 

[planten]

I have seen that hamba was guiding you to a good cause. But you blamed him for learning things from Ahmad deedat. No harm. We can learn from any one.

But you are all very allergic to Ahmad Deedat. He was a great scholar, preacher. He tackled the christian missionaries with the words of the bible. Some people deal with christians by Quran. Some do it by the bibleNT.

That is what was done by hamba. So you became wise and joined it with Deedat. That is not necessary. I also tackle the Catholics with the words from bible. i have never attended any lecture by Deedat at any time nor seen any of his debates.

Your own bible is enough to accuse all the christians. Even though bible is much altered in text and meaning, there is still enough true matter in the bible to guide the right mind to truth.

 

[planten]

There is now very little of Jesus in the bibleNT. All is from paul. There are so many inconsistent paras that it is difficult to believe what is right in the bible and what is fraud.

For instance, Jesus did not go near the gentiles all his life. He was very strict about not preaching to any gentile. He could not do that anyhow, being under foriegn rule. If he preached to any gentile, that person could report Jesus to the authorities and have him arrested. He forbade his disciples also to go near any gentile.

How come you have reversed Jesus policy by adding a few words in the bible?? It means that after going away, Jesus changed his policy, his mind?? How bad?? How bad for a God to change track?? How bad to go against one’s own well established principle?? Did Jesus do such thing?? No. He would never do that… The Church has done it for him due to Paul.

 

[seraphime2008]

Also, seraphime, we know what Jesus meany by saying 'What goes in does ul[BIBLEDRB]. [/BIBLEDRB]defile…"

But you have taken the wrong meanings of Jesus sayings. You should remember that you become what you eat. If you eat chicken you become a chicken. If you eat vegetables, you become a cow. If you eat meat, you become a tiger or wolf or eagle.

So I see that by eating swine, you are becoming a swine. That is the natural consequence. By eating the flesh of swine (which was allowed to you by Paul. He took christianity to greece. He wanted to please the Greeks and permitted eating of swine because they loved it too much.)you have disgraced Jesus.

You should remember other rules too.

1. What goes up must come down.
2. What goes in must come out.

According to rule 2 above, swine is constantly going into you. So swine will come out. That is like becoming a terribly bad smelling shameless animal. Celebrate. Perhaps you should forget the holy spirit ever visiting you. I am sure any one eating pork , Ham, bacon should forget about the holy spirit.

How can you claim any relation with the holy spirit by eating the most unholy animal flesh???

By your logic than most westerners that shape our civilization to day, that invent lots of the advancement in technology today are acting like swines because the mostly eat swine? Those Chinese people of the Republic of China, the Japanese, the Korean, the Taiwanese who are now emerging advanced countries are behaving like swine, since their dietary consist of swine??

Look at the stark different with most Muslims majority countries which are still struggling to have their hand to mouth existence! And that is because they are abstaining themselves from swine…?
I’m afraid this sort of mentality have intoxicated you, Planten…!
But you’re not aware of it…

 

[seraphime2008]

Planten…
You’re nothing but an intoxicated person…to say the least…
With those sort of reasoning of yours , I rather treat my self to think of you as a nuisance…
Enjoy yourself with your lies after lies…!

 

[seraphime2008]

There is now very little of Jesus in the bibleNT. All is from paul. There are so many inconsistent paras that it is difficult to believe what is right in the bible and what is fraud.

Okay…please tell us one by one what is that that you think inconsistencies of what Jesus taught and what Paul wrote?

For instance, Jesus did not go near the gentiles all his life. He was very strict about not preaching to any gentile. He could not do that anyhow, being under foriegn rule. If he preached to any gentile, that person could report Jesus to the authorities and have him arrested. He forbade his disciples also to go near any gentile.

We have covered this matter zillion times…you just pretend not knowing as your taqiyya islamic suggestion? Remember the Samaritan and the Roman soldier, just to name some? JUST STOP LYING AT LEAST TO YOURSELF!!!

How come you have reversed Jesus policy by adding a few words in the bible?? It means that after going away, Jesus changed his policy, his mind?? How bad?? How bad for a God to change track?? How bad to go against one’s own well established principle?? Did Jesus do such thing?? No. He would never do that… The Church has done it for him due to Paul.

What policy that Paul changed? Tell us one by one…who added the few words in the bible? Please tell us if you can other than your accusation of the law is cursed out of your unability to understand…Duh…!

You don’t answer my earlier inquiries:

seraphime2008:

No, Paul had never said that we’re not to act on the law of Moses. On the other hand, Muhammad had clearly shown that he had not even follow either one law of the 10 commandments!
And please, if you understand the law of Moses, please tell us exactly what you know about the law of Moses. If it’s the 10 commandments, we all Christians are adhered to it.But if it is about other law that you might have known better,please enlighten us with what you mean by the Moses’ law??? We will compare it with what you have in Koran, I suppose your Koran will not cover the same thing!

Paul’s teaching are even better than what you have in ur Koran. Please read his epistles, is there anything that you’re against of other than your accusation that he said that the law was cursed (for you bent the whole meaning out of no understanding). Anything…please…! He even covered the good government, he even covered how we have to work or perform our duties, he covered what considered evil like taking someone’s wife , but contrary your hero Muhammad clearly did that atrocious act! C’mon…are you that blind to see the difference of evil and virtue?

 

[blazerdave]

There is now very little of Jesus in the bibleNT. All is from paul.

You can actually find the Lord Jesus Christ in every single portion of Scripture if you know where and how to look for him there.

 

[Reuben_J]

seraphime, we do not stop you from eating the flesh of swine because it is so dear to you. We see that a swine is more near and dear to you than Jesus. So be it. You can celebrate it.

This is really repulsive, is it not? That you may speak about swine in the same breath with Jesus is already disgusting; I cannot imagine how you can get away with a remark like that – that swine is more dearly and near to a Christian than Jesus. If it is not for the fact that you have utterly lost your credibility, a remark like that should get you banned forever from this forum; someone with less got the boot. But maybe you should not be taken seriously and continue to be here to lighten thing a bit.

 

[dolphinlove]

seraphime, we do not stop you from eating the flesh of swine because it is so dear to you. We see that a swine is more near and dear to you than Jesus. So be it. You can celebrate it.

how dare you even say anything like this, your insulting and its obvious you cant stand your ground anymore so you result to insults.
How dare you insult Jesus in such a way, you really have gone over the top this time.
your prophet muhammad is lower than swine, do you like me saying that? i bet you dont.
Dont you EVER insult Jesus again, nor any other member of this forum here.

 

[Reuben_J]

But you are all very allergic to Ahmad Deedat. He was a great scholar, preacher. He tackled the christian missionaries with the words of the bible. Some people deal with christians by Quran. Some do it by the bibleNT.

As been pointed, even some prominent Muslim scholars disagree with Deedat.

There is no evidence that early Islam rejected the Bible and thought it is corrupted. The Quran did not. Mohammad was illiterate and he never thought the Bible was in error. He only thought that Christians were and misunderstood their Holy Book. Most probably he got his information from Christian acquaintances especially his wife and the Christian bishop Waraqa. There is no evidence that he did not believe in the Bible but being illiterate meant he could never actually double checked the truth of the information given to him. And all early Muslims took this line.

It was only after about the tenth century that Muslim scholars began to find some contradictions to their Quran from the early Christians as they began to be more exposed. Then start the defense of the Quran and now you have people like Ahmad Deedat. If your very own did not agree with him, what can actually be said of us who can see how transparently silly his argument was? When you or people like Hamba try to prop up this man, you become more and more like a sad replica of his silliness.