Jesus was an only son.. Mary did not have more children!!

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…And please don’t get me confused with anybody(noncatholic, cafeteria catholic, former catholic, etc), who believe that Mary and Joseph had sex before Jesus was born. We could go on ad infinitum about what UNTIL means, and still walk away believing what we believed in the first place;) You make some excellent points for her virginity:clapping:, however, anyone born of man and woman, is subject to imperfection(Romans 5:12) Since we know very little about Mary’s upbringing(some suggest that Mary herself was the product of an immaculate conception), there really is no way to say that she was born"sinless". Seems to me, that a young Jewish carpenter was the only one I’ve ever heard of:thumbsup: …
Your comment [bolded by me above] illustrates that you believe tat Jesus was concived immaculately … this is not the case … Immaculate conception refers to Mary’s conception and only Mary’s …

Mary was concieved in the normal manner [her parents came together in the congugal embrace … Her parents “knew” each other … and through the merits of Jesus Christ [by the power of God - her knew her before she was formed in her mother’s womb - the same God that called her by name and the same God she would concieve in her womb at th appropriate time] preserved her from the stain of original sin … Mary was saved at her conception in the same manner you are saved from your sins at your baptism … Mary’s womb [like the OT Ark of the Covenant] carried the Word of God, the High Priest, the Bread from Heaven … as God directed the construction of the OT Ark, God Himself created the Ark of the New Covenant - Mary and she [blessed of all women] is gloriously and awesomely made …

And while all are subject to “imperfections” as you quoted from Romans, we know that Enoch walked all his days with the Lord [hint: you can’t be in sin and walk with God - Enoch though stained by the sin of Adam lived his days without committing personal sin] … and did not suffer death but was assumed directly into heaven …
 
I know someone who knew someone, who knew someone, who knew someone… who knew someone who lived back then.

We have Apostolic Succession. Just a you have your father, who had his father, who had his father… If in the course of centuries you can’t go farther than say, 10 generations in your family, we in the Catholic Family can go back to Adam. It’s not needed for me to personally know someone who lived back then. I’m not 2000 years old, but my Church is.

Ezekiel 44:2, “Yahweh said to me, “This gate will be kept shut. No one will open it or go through it, since Yahweh the God of Israel has been through it. And so it must be kept shut”.”

This is a prophesy about Mary’s Perpetual Virginity. Who was in Mary’s womb and was born from Mary? GOD! “The God of Israel has been through Her. And so it must be kept shut.”

God bless you
What? This doesn’t sound like an answer to me?
 
yada: Three or four years ago, I heard a catholic apologist on the radio, say that Jesus was the product of an “Immaculate Conception, as He was not conceived in the “normal way!” Someone called in, and said, “How do you suppose Mary’s mother felt, knowing she too, was about to have an immaculate conception?” Other than oral tradition, there is only speculation and opinions about Mary’s birth! Having been born of a woman, she like all others was vulnerable to sin. Couldn’t God, through His awesome, Divine, power, sanctify that womb, to where sin would not touch the Christ child? Ark of the Covenant, Mary??? Were Mary’s parents"normal” parents, complete with sin natures? Is there scripture, or related history, which talks about Mary’s birth? You believe in the perpetual virginity of Mary, while I and others wonder,…maybe not:cool:
 
Which version of the Bible tells us that in Ezekiel 44:2, that the God of Israel has been through her? You are reaching back into the OT to make your point? Didn’t it say that the east gate would remain closed, because God had entered the Temple through that gate?
 
prieldedi: Lest any of us “entertain” the notion, that we know what God thinks, or how He works, let us ALL agree that His thoughts are not our thoughts, and His ways are alays better than ours:thumbsup: I know I don’t have to wonder whether you included me in your statement about nonbelievers, because I’m as much a believer as you are, still vulnerable, still tempted, still following my Saviour, on this wacky roller coaster we call life. And please don’t get me confused with anybody(noncatholic, cafeteria catholic, former catholic, etc), who believe that Mary and Joseph had sex before Jesus was born. We could go on ad infinitum about what UNTIL means, and still walk away believing what we believed in the first place;) You make some excellent points for her virginity:clapping:, however, anyone born of man and woman, is subject to imperfection(Romans 5:12) Since we know very little about Mary’s upbringing(some suggest that Mary herself was the product of an immaculate conception), there really is no way to say that she was born"sinless". Seems to me, that a young Jewish carpenter was the only one I’ve ever heard of:thumbsup: Talked to a co-worker, who was raised catholic, but left the church; said he couldn’t keep up with all the rituals, which included(his words)" the seemingly glorification of Mary". Believe me, I don’t hate anyone for anything, whether it’s confessing to a priest(don’t need it), wearing a cross with a corpus on it, or holding Mary in a higher position than I do:D I hope I didn’t misread your words, and believe that you referred to Mary as God’s wife:eek: Yes, she was the physical mother of the Christ child, but not God’s wife. So, anyway, how are you? Let us come to the table of grace, with humble hearts, and willing minds; eyes fixed on Our Saviour:thumbsup:
No, I don’t include you. I forgot to say it my reply.

You wrote “anyone born of man and woman, is subject to imperfection(Romans 5:12)” The question here is, was Mary also subject to imperfection?
We believe Mary was born without original sin, that Her conception was Immaculate for the following reason:

Luke 1:28 «The angel came to her and said, “Rejoice, full of grace, the Lord is with you.”»

FULL OF GRACE, THE LORD IS WITH YOU.

These are GOD’s words, not the angel’s. If Mary was called ‘full of grace’ (or ‘blessed’) BY GOD HIMSELF, if She had the ‘Lord with her’, She could not been stained by original sin. Why? Because baptism removes the stain of original sin. When we are baptized, sin goes out and GOD comes in. But baptism was instituted after Jesus had started His ministry (John 3:22-23, 4:2).
Eve, the first woman, was created without original sin. If Mary is higher than Eve, what could keep God from creating Mary without original sin too?
“Rejoice, full of grace, the Lord is with you.” This is the WORD OF GOD.

Others that were born without the stain of original sin? Adam.
Also John the Baptist: Luke 1:15, “This son of yours will be great in the eyes of the Lord. Listen: he shall never drink wine or strong drink, but he will be filled with holy spirit even from his mother’s womb.”
Can GOD co-exist with original sin in the same vessel, the womb of Mary?

I will not go into the “rituals” and “confession of sins” as it’s a topic for another thread. But…
Mary is the DAUGHTER of the FATHER. 1 John 3:2, “Beloved, we are God’s children…”
She is the MOTHER of the SON. Luke 2:7-11, 41-43, “and she gave birth to a son, her firstborn…”
She is the SPOUSE of the HOLY SPIRIT. Luke 1:35-38, «And the angel said to her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore, the holy child to be born shall be called Son of God.”»

You asked yada “Ark of the Covenant, Mary???”
Yes, Mary is the New Ark of the Covenant. In Exodus 25 you’ll read that God was very meticulous as to how the wooden ‘Ark of the Covenant’ was to be constructed. The reason? The Ark was to be the most sacred object on the face of the Earth because when God said:

God wanted to be among men:
Leviticus 26:11 “I will make my Dwelling among you…”

He wanted it to be PERFECT, PURE, WITHOUT STAINS, because it was to contain:
  1. The Word of GOD written on stone tablets.
  2. The symbol of the High Priest, the Rod of Aaron.
  3. The Manna, the Bread come down from Heaven.
Compare the Old Ark with Mary. Who is Jesus?
  1. He is the Word of God, John 1:14, “And the Word was made flesh”
  2. He is the new High Priest, Hebrews 7:26, “It was fitting that our High Priest be holy, undefiled, set apart from sinners and exalted above the heavens”
  3. The Living Bread, John 6:51, “I am the living bread which has come from heaven
How can anyone deny that Mary is the New Ark of the Covenant?

You also asked “Is there scripture, or related history, which talks about Mary’s birth?”
Yes, there is. It’s called “The Gospel of the Nativity of Mary”. Read it here.

God bless you
 
Which version of the Bible tells us that in Ezekiel 44:2, that the God of Israel has been through her? You are reaching back into the OT to make your point? Didn’t it say that the east gate would remain closed, because God had entered the Temple through that gate?
From the King James Version:

Ezekiel 44:2, “Then said the LORD unto me; This gate shall be shut, it shall not be opened, and no man shall enter in by it; because the LORD, the God of Israel, hath entered in by it, therefore it shall be shut.”

This is prophesy of Mary’s Perpetual Virginity. GOD entered Mary’s womb… “and no man shall enter in by it; because the LORD, the God of Israel, hath entered in by it, therefore it shall be shut.”

In the Bible there are what are called “types” and “antitypes”. Types are found in the Old Testament, they are OT prefigurements, antitypes are found in the New Testament, they are NT realities. Antitypes are always greater than types.

Types are referred to in these verses, sometimes under different wording:
Rom 5:14, 1 Cor 10:2,6,11, Heb 3:1 to 4:11,11:19, 1 Thes 1:7, 1 Pet 3:21, 1 Pet 5:3, Rev 21:1 to 22:5.

Examples:

Type: Adam
Antitype: Jesus

Type: Eve
Antitype: Mary

Type: Mana
Antitype: Eucharist

Type: The Ark of Covenant
Antitype: Mary

Type: Isaac’s wood
Antitype: Jesus’ Cross (both carried uphill the wood of the sacrifice on their back)

In the case we are discussing here:

Type: the gate
Antitype: Mary

God bless you
 
There is a good possibility I would have and I admit to that. This is simply because I did not get saved while my husband was around… I actually dragged him to mass (and he felt very uncomfortable and today I understand why).
I became a true Christian and started to follow Jesus Christ while my husband was downrange.

No, I felt guilty because of my own shortcomings. I tried to be perfect and I wasn’t. It got so bad that I wrote down every single detail that I did wrong, just to make sure I wouldn’t forget it. I already confessed everything that I remembered, but this did not help me get rid of my guilt… God will not be bribed and I did know that I couldn’t do anything. I tried and I tried and my guilt seemed to mount up further and further.
My father was very concerned and he wanted to even force me to spend 50% of my free time outside of the church so I started playing darts. Unfortunately one of the friends there went to church with me and that way I couldn’t even do that. (Apart from the fact that one weekly meeting and one game were far from 50%.)
It was not me against me or a struggle in my head. This was the devil against me, the accuser who did have every reason to accuse me as my sins were mounting up.
I would have done anything to get out of this situation. I prayed every prayer I knew in every quiet minute. I spend hours on end on the floor of the chapel at the nunnery I was at. Countless hours of kneeling in front of a monstrance even damaged my knees. Had there been a possibility to lower myself further than laying flat on the ground I would have done it. I was not looking for a miracle… I was looking for mercy.
I still can’t see where the Church failed you.
You tried to be perfect, but no one is perfect. You’ve known that always.
There is a saying, “Even saints sin seven times a day…”
I’ll leave it that… I’m glad you are at peace now.

God bless you
 
prieldedi: I guess we have to accept by faith(what a concept) that the catholic interpretaion of Mary’s being the Ark of the Covenant, and her perpetual virginity, are in fact true;) So far, I have found Bibles to say, “Greetings, oh favored woman; the Lord is with you.” Peace be with you, the Lord is with you and has greatly blessed you." And Ezekiel 44:2 can be interpreted any number of ways, from talking about Mary, to saying that no one else will enter through the East Gate, as the God of Israel entered the Temple through that Gate. I can take comfort in knowing that, even though you speak authoritatively, you are by no means the authority! This debate over Mary’s virginity, and her standing in the realm of everything, will go on for ages, two sides, or more believing what they believe! I guess you could say, that “the Lord has greatly blessed you,” could mean “full of grace”. Starbucks venti Caramel frappucino:$5, Blueberry muffin:$1.50, not having to go to confession:Priceless!👍
 
Must I repeat this, yet again!?
Psalms 69:8
I am a stranger to my brothers, an alien to my own mother’s sons
Geez… this is stating that Chirst had brothers, and his mother Mary had children!
 
Must I repeat this, yet again!?

Geez… this is stating that Chirst had brothers, and his mother Mary had children!
Calm down, Jennifer. 🙂 No, it isn’t stating any such thing.

“I have become an outcast to my brothers,
a stranger to my mother’s sons,
Because zeal for Your House consumes me.”
*Psalm 69:9-10 *

And then we have:

“Protest against your mother, protest!
For she is not my wife and I am not her Husband."
Hosea 2:4

These, and numerous other passages in the Old Testament, illustrate a very long-standing Scriptural tradition of speaking of Israel (or the synagogue) as a “mother” and of fellow Jews as one’s “brothers.” As in Hosea, Israel is frequently depicted as an unfaithful wife and mother - a mother who commits spiritual fornication with other gods (i.e., Baal: Hosea 2:15, 2:18-19, etc.), and who violates the relationship with her true husband, God the Father. Yet, God will reform His “unfaithful wife” (Hosea 2:9-16), and make her His own forever (Hosea 2:21-22)

So let’s look at Matt 12:46-50:

“While He was still speaking to the crowds, His mother and His brothers appeared outside, wishing to speak with Him. Someone told Him, ‘Your mother and your brothers are standing outside, asking to speak with you.’ But He said in reply to the one who told Him, ‘Who is my mother? Who are my brothers?’ And, stretching out His hand toward His disciples, He said, ‘Here are my mother and my brothers. For whoever does the will of my heavenly Father is my brother, and sister, and mother.”

What is Jesus saying? Well, for starters, Jesus is not referring to His mother and His brothers at all. Rather, He is teaching something about the Church (i.e., the true Israel), as opposed to the false, corrupt, apostate Israel of the Pharisees. To do this, He is using rabbinical language to play off of Psalm 69:9-10 and the Book of Hosea, which speak of Israel as “my mother” and of fellow Jews as “my brothers”

So, Jesus is speaking about Israel and the synagogue as His mother. In doing so, He is saying that the community of disciples gathered around Him in the home of Simon Peter is His true mother, as opposed to the corrupt, apostate Israel represented by the Pharisees and their synagogue (Revelation 2:9). Neither is their corrupt, apostate Israel His mother, nor does their status as fellow-Jews make them His brothers (Psalm 69:9-10). Rather, His true mother is the true Israel: the Church (1 Peter 2:9-10, Rev. 12:1-6), the true Household of God (Psalm 69:9-10), 1 Tim, 3:15, Ephesians 2:19-22); and His true brothers [and sisters] are those who do the will of the Father - those who followed Him out of the synagogue; those who belong to the Church (i.e., Christians) – and Mary is this par excellence, and presented by the sacred writers – particularly St. John, as THE Type of the Church.

So, perhaps there is a good reason why using Psalm 69 as a means to cast doubts on the Catholic teaching about Mary is not a common argument in Protestant circles - it is self-defeating once one reads the entire Psalm.
 
yada: Three or four years ago, I heard a catholic apologist on the radio, say that Jesus was the product of an “Immaculate Conception, as He was not conceived in the “normal way!” Someone called in, and said, “How do you suppose Mary’s mother felt, knowing she too, was about to have an immaculate conception?” Other than oral tradition, there is only speculation and opinions about Mary’s birth! Having been born of a woman, she like all others was vulnerable to sin. Couldn’t God, through His awesome, Divine, power, sanctify that womb, to where sin would not touch the Christ child? Ark of the Covenant, Mary??? Were Mary’s parents"normal” parents, complete with sin natures? Is there scripture, or related history, which talks about Mary’s birth? You believe in the perpetual virginity of Mary, while I and others wonder,…maybe not:cool:
Sorry, I can’t speak for an un-named person on a radio show I did not hear … All I can say is that Jesus was not the product of an “Immaculate Conception” … Immaculate Conception is a tchnical term that is used and defined in a very specific way by te Church and it does not refer to the conception of Jesus …

Thus:

1] the apologist you heard was not a ‘catholic’ but a non - catholic atempting to explain what they thought the Church taught …

2] the apologist was ‘cathilic’ but not well catechised …

3] you mis-understood what the apologist stated …

4] the apologist ‘mis-spoke’ by mentioning Jesus when they intended to say Mary …

🤷 You can search official catholic sources and not once find a reference to Jesus’ being ‘imaculately conceived’ …

And OT typology [Adam / Jesus … as through one man sin ntered the world through the one man Jesus - the new Adam - sin is conquored] … is very common: within both the Catholic Churc and our seperated brethren … Circumcision / Baptism, Eve and Mary … these are not new concepts … read the Early Church Fathers …

It is stated commonly with in CHristian circles that what is concealed in the OT is revealed in the New … and Yes, Christians read the Hebrew Scriptures in light of the Life and Gopsel [Good News] of Christ Jesus
 
Calm down, Jennifer. 🙂 No, it isn’t stating any such thing.

“I have become an outcast to my brothers,
a stranger to my mother’s sons,
Because zeal for Your House consumes me.”
*Psalm 69:9-10 *

And then we have:

“Protest against your mother, protest!
For she is not my wife and I am not her Husband."
Hosea 2:4

These, and numerous other passages in the Old Testament, illustrate a very long-standing Scriptural tradition of speaking of Israel (or the synagogue) as a “mother” and of fellow Jews as one’s “brothers.” As in Hosea, Israel is frequently depicted as an unfaithful wife and mother - a mother who commits spiritual fornication with other gods (i.e., Baal: Hosea 2:15, 2:18-19, etc.), and who violates the relationship with her true husband, God the Father. Yet, God will reform His “unfaithful wife” (Hosea 2:9-16), and make her His own forever (Hosea 2:21-22)

So let’s look at Matt 12:46-50:

“While He was still speaking to the crowds, His mother and His brothers appeared outside, wishing to speak with Him. Someone told Him, ‘Your mother and your brothers are standing outside, asking to speak with you.’ But He said in reply to the one who told Him, ‘Who is my mother? Who are my brothers?’ And, stretching out His hand toward His disciples, He said, ‘Here are my mother and my brothers. For whoever does the will of my heavenly Father is my brother, and sister, and mother.”

What is Jesus saying? Well, for starters, Jesus is not referring to His mother and His brothers at all. Rather, He is teaching something about the Church (i.e., the true Israel), as opposed to the false, corrupt, apostate Israel of the Pharisees. To do this, He is using rabbinical language to play off of Psalm 69:9-10 and the Book of Hosea, which speak of Israel as “my mother” and of fellow Jews as “my brothers”

So, Jesus is speaking about Israel and the synagogue as His mother. In doing so, He is saying that the community of disciples gathered around Him in the home of Simon Peter is His true mother, as opposed to the corrupt, apostate Israel represented by the Pharisees and their synagogue (Revelation 2:9). Neither is their corrupt, apostate Israel His mother, nor does their status as fellow-Jews make them His brothers (Psalm 69:9-10). Rather, His true mother is the true Israel: the Church (1 Peter 2:9-10, Rev. 12:1-6), the true Household of God (Psalm 69:9-10), 1 Tim, 3:15, Ephesians 2:19-22); and His true brothers [and sisters] are those who do the will of the Father - those who followed Him out of the synagogue; those who belong to the Church (i.e., Christians) – and Mary is this par excellence, and presented by the sacred writers – particularly St. John, as THE Type of the Church.

So, perhaps there is a good reason why using Psalm 69 as a means to cast doubts on the Catholic teaching about Mary is not a common argument in Protestant circles - it is self-defeating once one reads the entire Psalm.
So… are you saying that it is not a messianic prothecy?
 
So… are you saying that it is not a messianic prothecy?
No, I’m not say that at all. The verses are fulfilled in Israel’s rejection of it’s Son, Jesus. He IS rejected by His “brothers” - His People.
 
prieldedi: I guess we have to accept by faith(what a concept) that the catholic interpretaion of Mary’s being the Ark of the Covenant, and her perpetual virginity, are in fact true;) So far, I have found Bibles to say, “Greetings, oh favored woman; the Lord is with you.” Peace be with you, the Lord is with you and has greatly blessed you." And Ezekiel 44:2 can be interpreted any number of ways, from talking about Mary, to saying that no one else will enter through the East Gate, as the God of Israel entered the Temple through that Gate. I can take comfort in knowing that, even though you speak authoritatively, you are by no means the authority! This debate over Mary’s virginity, and her standing in the realm of everything, will go on for ages, two sides, or more believing what they believe! I guess you could say, that “the Lord has greatly blessed you,” could mean “full of grace”. Starbucks venti Caramel frappucino:$5, Blueberry muffin:$1.50, not having to go to confession:Priceless!👍
Those that reject Mary (for whatever reason) have tried to discredit Her, going to the extreme to change the words of the Bible to say what they want it to say (this doesn’t include you). Luther added the word “alone” to Romans 3:28 in his German translation of the Bible, in order to have it support his man made “justified by faith alone” doctrine. He set the example. The record shows that it hasn’t been the Catholic Church the one that has tampered with Scripture. In his translation of the Bible into German, Luther even removed 4 New Testament books: Hebrews, James, Jude, and Revelation and placed them in an appendix at the end of the Bible, saying they were less than canonical. After his death his followers put them back in their right place. In fact, Luther wanted them out of the Bible completely, as he did with seven OT books, called the Deuterocanonicals: 1 and 2 Maccabees, Baruch, Judith, Sirach, Tobit, Wisdom, as he did also with parts of Daniel and Esther.

You say: “even though you speak authoritatively, you are by no means the authority!”
I’m not. I have never “entertained” the thought that I am the authority.
This is not my “personal interpretation” either. It’s the teaching of the Church.
This teaching didn’t start 100-200-300 years ago as some evangelical teachings have.

I’m yet to see a Catholic Bible in which “brothers of the Lord” has been changed to “cousins of the Lord.” That tells a lot about our Church and her commitment to stick to the original Scriptures, knowing at the same time that people will use those same passages against her own teachings.

Regarding “not having to go to confession”:

Leviticus 4:20, “When the priest has performed the sacrifice for the people’s sin, they will be forgiven.”

Leviticus 4:26, “This is how the priest is to offer the sacrifice for the sin of this leader to free him from his sin, and he will be forgiven.”

Leviticus 4:31, “This is how the priest is to offer the sacrifice for the man’s sin, and he will be forgiven.”

Leviticus 4:35, “This is how the priest is to offer the sacrifice for the man’s sin, and he will be forgiven.”

Leviticus 5:5-6, “He who is guilty in any of these cases, shall confess the sin committed, and bring to Yahweh as a sacrifice for the sin committed a female of the flock (sheep or goat); and the priest shall offer the sacrifice for the man’s sin to free him from his sin.”
See also Leviticus 5:10,13,16,18, 12:8, 14:18-20,31, 15:15,30.

Leviticus 7:7, “As with the sacrifice for sin, so with the sacrifice of repayment; the regulation is the same for both. The offering which he has used in the sacrifice for sin belongs to the priest.”

Leviticus 16:32, “The priest who is anointed and ordained to succeed his father will make atonement.”

Leviticus 19:20-22, “If a man lies with a woman who is a slave promised to another man, and she has not been ransomed or given her freedom, there shall be punishment. They shall not be put to death because she was not free, but he shall bring a ram as a guilt offering to Yahweh for himself, to the door of the Tent of Meeting. The priest is to make atonement for him before Yahweh with the ram of the guilt offering, and the sin he has committed will be forgiven.”

Numbers 6:11, “The priest shall offer one as a sin offering and the other as a burnt offering; so he shall make atonement for his sin because of the dead person.”

Numbers 15:25, “The priest must perform the ceremony of atonement over the entire community of Israel, and pardon will be given…”

Numbers 15:28, “The priest shall perform the ceremony of atonement before Yahweh over the person who has gone astray by this sin of inadvertence; when the ceremony of atonement has been performed over him, he will be forgiven.”

After reading these previous passages, can you honestly say that going to confession is not Biblical?
Reject Biblical teachings: Priceless???

John 20:21-23, «Again Jesus said to them, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, so I send you.” After saying this he breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit; for those whose sins you forgive, they are forgiven; for those whose sins you retain, they are retained”.»

2 Corinthians 2:10, “And to whom YOU have pardoned any thing, I also. For, what I have pardoned, if I have pardoned any thing, for your sakes have I done it IN THE PERSON OF CHRIST.”

James 5:14-16, “Is any man sick among you? Let him bring in the priests of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord. And the prayer of faith shall save the sick man: and the Lord shall raise him up: and if he be in sins, they shall be forgiven him. Confess therefore your sins one to another: and pray one for another, that you may be saved. For the continual prayer of a just man availeth much.”

God bless you
 
That’s the beauty of free will; you can believe that God, in His infinite wisdom, can do anything! Was there someone there, in Biblical times, who knows for a fact, that this marriage was not consummated? The wordPOSSIBILITY exists all through life:cool:
One cannot prove a negative. The ancient teaching of the Church is that she remained a Virgin; more than that, she had a special mission to perform. We also know that Joseph had a special mission to perform, which was not merely to serve as husband of Mary, not merely to act as head of his family. In the Gospels he is depicted as the guardian of Our Lord. We do not know his relationship with Mary, before or afterwards except as her and the Lord’s guardian. But speaking of possibility. Supposing that it were you were were engaged to a girl, and she was found to be with child,not by you, but you were convinced that this child was the Lord Messiah. What would be your attitude toward this girl?
 
robbys: This is a novel approach to the question of,“Did Mary have other children?” Hmmm, let’s see; well if I knew for certain that this child was the Lord Jesus, I would be totally in awe, and overwhelmed, by it all:D And all of the scenarios that people have presented to “prove” that Mary was a perpetual virgin, are quite interesting, yet inconclusive. I myself do not have a concrete answer of proof, and have never aserted that she did or did not have other children; merely floating the possibility, that as a married couple, they MAY have had sexual relations. As far as we know, Joseph was with Mary for at least 12 years. That’s a long time to be with someone without consummating a marriage(Matthew 1:25):cool:
 
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