Jesus was an only son.. Mary did not have more children!!

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Monica, That was a very good post one of the best but you can tell some non-catrhloic on this board that Jesus was a Jew and it if was from a Cathloic they will not believe,because of the flase teaching of Sola Scriptura.
 
So you’re telling me, that with all the OT references, allusions and fulfillments, Jesus ignores this vison of God given to Daniel and rather re-interprets it to mean a literal man instead of the representation of the messiah that will judge the living and the dead?!? ok…

No translation necessary. You take every single letter of the Bible literally.

So, Lk 14:26 “If any one comes to me and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be my disciple.” = You hate your parents literally? Your poor parents. 😉

As for your other statement about God who HAS to come out of (where ever God is) and become flesh to create life within Mary (even though He created EVERYTHING else) but yet can’t do it any other way…I won’t even touch that error with a 10 foot pole. :eek:
You miss understand my words, HE doesn’t become flesh (POOF) God has always been body, he is a tangible being, Like his Son Luke 36 "handle me and see for a spirit has not flesh and bones as ye see me have. Christ was Resurrected, Touch me not for I have not ascended to my father** who is** to heaven, Why would there be a Resurrection at all if the spirit is greater than the body. Even Satan wanted to have a body so bad that he went into the bodies of swines.
We will all be resurrected, as Jesus is now. And God has glorified his Son, and have made him like unto himself. Your belief in a none physical God, is a pagan, false, God God is a Glorified spiritual and physical being, And God didn’t create something from nothing. when God said let there be light, light moved into it order. HE commands the elements, they obeyed, simple truth, science in motion. If God were to appear to you, he would be a man not a woman, a Man of Glory, you could embrace him and feel his being just as you can your earthly father’s being.

Your first paragraph is not clear to me what are you referring.
 
Well, not all of us non-catholics are ignorant, or naive! We know that Jesus, and His “bloodline” were Jewish, and that Jesus was circumsised, and presnted to God.And Peter was a Jew, which means in essence that the early church was founded by Jews;)
 
they are not cousins silly. The greek word is adelphos which means literal brothers and sisters. When the greek work adelphos is used in the nt it is used in a family tense. Catholics can argue all they want but the word of god doesn’t change. He had brothers and sisters.
wrong
 
freedomwriter;5511186:
Good work
You need to understand your destroying the very foundation of their belief system, If Mary had other children which she did. Then they would have to explain hundreds of years of deception. Or admit they were wrong, about Mary. actually it doesn’t pertain to my salvation, nor yours. It is all to stir one up in a debate.
 
God had originally given Adam and Eve the preternatural gifts of immortality, freedom from suffering, superior knowledge, and inner harmony with Himself. The sabbath recalls Eden. Is 58:14 “You shall take delight in the Lord.” Ex 20:10 “You shall not do any work.” Ex 35:3 “You shall kindle no fire.” Our first parents in Eden lived that life every day. God had instructed Adam, Gn 2:16 “You may freely eat of every tree of the garden; but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall die.”

But Satan tempted Eve to reject God as her shepherd. Gn 3:5 “You will not die. For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God,ou will be like God, knowing good and evil.” Adam and Eve committed the deadly sin of pride by rejecting God as their shepherd and seeking to decide as God does what is good and what is evil. This was the original sin. As a result, God took back the preternatural gifts and left Adam and Eve with a fallen nature: darkened intellect, weakened will, and a lack of inner harmony with Himself.
Since Adam and Eve were the progenitors of all mankind, we their descendants inherit their fallen nature. We became Eph 2:3 “children of wrath.”
So if I understand you the original sin, started when Eve ate the fruit, and gave it to Adam and this was the sin? Now Satan, said that if they would eat they would be like God, that is a awesome statement, knowing GOOD and Evil. so explain to me then If they knew no sin, and only by eating the fruit would give them a knowledge of GOOD and evil, right and wrong, light and darkness, then how can it be a sin if they would not know sin unless they ate the fruit.And how can they know Pride since they were innocent in the beginning. Pride, doesn’t that come with a knowledge after eating the fruit of good and evil?
 
I have no problem with the idea of Mary’s perpetual virginity. I think that it is a wonderful concept and I must believe that as an RC. I vowed to accept all the Church’s teacing as truth when I joined the Church.

But I guess I don’t understand why it is so vital that it be believed. Had she had children after Jesus, that would not have been sinful, would it? It’s not a deal-breaker to believe it or not believe it, is it?
First it is not a Church teaching and the Church does not teach error, the Church is the Pillar of truth and not the Bible
 
These are some excerpts from the gospel of John:

John 6:27-29,
"Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed. Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
esus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent. "

Here it could be inferred that when Christ indicated that his mother and brothers were those that do the will of God and was contrasting the crowd with his family that He is indicating a lack of belief in Him from his family. But also-- and perhaps more fundamentally-- that He is extending His family to any who will believe in Him. This would indicate that perhaps His mother and other family members did believe as well but that His family is not limited to just them.

6:45-46,
“It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.”

I still don’t understand Don Hepler’s arguments on the nature of God

6:47-49,
“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.
I am that bread of life. Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead.”

Here Christ is referring to Himself in comparison to Moses which would reference also another scripture, Deut. 18:18-19:
“I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.
And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.”

This is perhaps why I have had a difficult time consenting to or understanding the justifications to some of my previous arguments pertaining to the trespassing of-- what to me had become— Christ’s orders, (which would inherently supercede Moses’).

And also because of what Christ said to Peter in Matthew 16:13-23,
“When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am? And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets. He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ.
From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day.
Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee. But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.”

I also would like to include John 6:63-69,

“It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him. And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father. From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him. Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away? Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life. And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.”

I hope this reply might prove helpful in understanding my views and interpretations.
 
What do you mean, “That’s it that’s all you got”? If the Bible is inerrant and should be believed alone, doesn’t this contradict what you’ve been saying?:eek:
No, because the bible isn’t complete, we are missing books, the bible has been translated and brought into confusion. The Jews wrote, this way, because of the outside corruption, Jesus spoke in parables, stories were told, people who were true follower would understand, those who were not didn’t understand. So When Jesus was on the Cross he called out to his Father Eli, Eli, or as the Hebrew word Elohim. This is our GOD (ELI) Man of Holiness a physical being the Father of us all, His beloved Son next to him was called Jehovah
Hebrews 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in times past unto the fathers by the prophets" That is pretty clear to me God spoke to us by his prophets.
2: Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds. SO Eli appoints Jehovah to be heir of all and charges Jehovah to create this world and others ( WE ARE NOT LONE)sorry I had to put that in, not scripture…So now Jehovah is the God of our OT. he is spirit though he is a God, he is spirit form. who you worship. Now the time has come for Jehovah to become Jesus. Gain a body and to fulfill the great plan of justice and mercy, Eli becomes his father, he is physical, Jehovah is spirit without a body, Mary is chosen and the angel explains to her what she is called to do. It is still her choice she chooses to be the Mother of our Savior. Mary conceives and told to call his name Jesus. His name has significance, he is now God with us. This is a beautiful plan, Jesus is resurrected, to become the first fruits of the dead, It was part of the plan. Is God spirit? If you are referring to Jehovah, yes, but Eli is not he is spirit flesh and bones. without blood which is earthly. Three separate in this Godhead God ELI, God,Jehovah (Jesus) God Holy Ghost. Two physical beings and one Spirit, so he can bear testimony and prepare our bodies to see him as he did Mary.
 
No, because the bible isn’t complete, we are missing books, the bible has been translated and brought into confusion. The Jews wrote, this way, because of the outside corruption, Jesus spoke in parables, stories were told, people who were true follower would understand, those who were not didn’t understand. So When Jesus was on the Cross he called out to his Father Eli, Eli, or as the Hebrew word Elohim. This is our GOD (ELI) Man of Holiness a physical being the Father of us all, His beloved Son next to him was called Jehovah
Hebrews 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in times past unto the fathers by the prophets" That is pretty clear to me God spoke to us by his prophets.
2: Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds. SO Eli appoints Jehovah to be heir of all and charges Jehovah to create this world and others ( WE ARE NOT LONE)sorry I had to put that in, not scripture…So now Jehovah is the God of our OT. he is spirit though he is a God, he is spirit form. who you worship. Now the time has come for Jehovah to become Jesus. Gain a body and to fulfill the great plan of justice and mercy, Eli becomes his father, he is physical, Jehovah is spirit without a body, Mary is chosen and the angel explains to her what she is called to do. It is still her choice she chooses to be the Mother of our Savior. Mary conceives and told to call his name Jesus. His name has significance, he is now God with us. This is a beautiful plan, Jesus is resurrected, to become the first fruits of the dead, It was part of the plan. Is God spirit? If you are referring to Jehovah, yes, but Eli is not he is spirit flesh and bones. without blood which is earthly. Three separate in this Godhead God ELI, God,Jehovah (Jesus) God Holy Ghost. Two physical beings and one Spirit, so he can bear testimony and prepare our bodies to see him as he did Mary.
Sounds so Mormon…

Stultus quoque, si tacuerit, sapiens reputabitur.
 
Sounds so Mormon…

Stultus quoque, si tacuerit, sapiens reputabitur.
Truth is truth regardless who has it. I am formula with them, as I am with all your doctrines.
It is still scripture. prove it different. Who is Eli??? look up the name in Hebrew
 

Let us examine this more closely, using your bible…

The word: ‘Brethren’…appears over 530 times in the Bible.

‘Brother’…appears over 350 times.

‘Brothers’…appears only once, in Num 36:11.

‘Sister’…appears over 100 times.

‘Sisters’…appears over 15 times.

BRETHREN: This is a plural word for ‘brother’ as shown in dictionaries.

BROTHER: The Hebrew word ‘ACH’, is ordinarily translated ‘brother’. Since Hebrew, and Aramaic in which the Gospel of Matthew was written, had fewer words than our English, the Jews at that time, used it in a broader sense to expresses kinship. The Hebrew terms for different levels and degrees of relationship did not exist. ‘Brother’ meant the sons of the same father, and all the male members of the same clan or tribe. In Greek, in which the Gospel of Mark was written, the word “brother” is “adelphos” (adelphos), meaning a blood brother, or belonging to the same people, or a countryman, or a fellow believer. Even today, the word is used in a larger meaning, so that friends, allies, fellow believers, and fellow citizens can be included in the same brotherhood. It was no different in the time of Christ. Four dictionaries I have checked list three or four classes of meanings of the word ‘brother’. The first class concerns sons of the same parents. The other two or three classes say, kinsman, fellow man, a close friend, a pal, a member of a religious order, a fellow member of a Christian Church, etc. How many times have you seen T.V. Evangelists address their audiences as ‘Our brothers and sisters’? Marian detractors accept the last three meanings to suit themselves, but when it comes to Mary, the mother of GOD, they always refer to the first meaning. Is this fair to her? How do you explain this?
Cathloic Treasurehest
 
These are some excerpts from the gospel of John:

John 6:27-29,
"Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed. Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
esus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent. "

Here it could be inferred that when Christ indicated that his mother and brothers were those that do the will of God and was contrasting the crowd with his family that He is indicating a lack of belief in Him from his family. But also-- and perhaps more fundamentally-- that He is extending His family to any who will believe in Him. This would indicate that perhaps His mother and other family members did believe as well but that His family is not limited to just them.

6:45-46,
“It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.”

I still don’t understand Don Hepler’s arguments on the nature of God

6:47-49,
“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.
I am that bread of life. Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead.”

Here Christ is referring to Himself in comparison to Moses which would reference also another scripture, Deut. 18:18-19:
“I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.
And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.”

This is perhaps why I have had a difficult time consenting to or understanding the justifications to some of my previous arguments pertaining to the trespassing of-- what to me had become— Christ’s orders, (which would inherently supercede Moses’).

And also because of what Christ said to Peter in Matthew 16:13-23,
“When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am? And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets. He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ.
From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day.
Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee. But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.”

I also would like to include John 6:63-69,

“It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him. And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father. From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him. Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away? Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life. And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.”

I hope this reply might prove helpful in understanding my views and interpretations.
Angelo: Where did I loose you on the nature of God? And this insert, I am responding to this page, is this to me or are you answering someone’s question.?
 
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