Jesus was an only son.. Mary did not have more children!!

[Angelo_Michael]

Not at all. Consider that the Lord Himself became Flesh. To devalue flesh (as in the total spiritualization of Protestantism with the Eucharist) is to devalue the Incarnation. The verse you quote comes from the Lord’s Bread of Life discourse wherein He introduces His hearers to the anticipated gift of Himself in the Eucharist. Knowing His own mission to be the sacrificial lamb of the world, he could not possibly have meant that His own flesh was of no avail. In fact, His very flesh, bruised, beaten and pierced, and His very blood poured out, is the only means of our salvation. His flesh is of EVERY avail.

John 6:63 understood in context is in fact an integral component of the whole Bread of Life discourse which helps to illustrate the mindset of the disciples and to clarify the message of Jesus. The passage taken as a whole reveals to us the meaning of the words “bread of life”, which is quite literally the supernatural flesh and blood of Christ, as seen through spiritual eyes. He is truly and fully present in the Holy Eucharist.

John 6:66 illustrates that many of His followers could not take Him at His word, could not grasp with spiritual understanding the depth of the Gift He would give us.

Further, matter - since it is God’s creation - is good. It can be and has been put to evil uses, but in Christ Jesus it reaches its perfection/glorification; our union with Him can have the same result through our perseverance in Faith, Hope and Charity.

In the same way that someone is not condemned by one witness but by two or three witnesses so then I often do not coclude things by solely one of Christ’s statements but by two or three of them, and then, usually only tentatively.

You say that since matter is God’s creation that it is therefore good, but Christ, who is the greatest of all of God’s creation, is not ‘good’, in an absolute sense, even by His own admission. When Christ refers to Himself as the ‘good shepherd’ it is a relative term that contrasts with the hired hand, and the thief. But, in an absolute sense, only God, who is Spirit, is good. You seem to be inevitably contradicting Christ’s statements in my opinion.

Consider that when the Eucharist was related in Luke 22:14-20, “And when the hour was come, he sat down, and the twelve apostles with him. And he said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer: For I say unto you, I will not any more eat thereof, until it be fulfilled in the kingdom of God. And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and said, Take this, and divide it among yourselves: For I say unto you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine, until the kingdom of God shall come. And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me. Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.” it as though the ceremony is not one that, in and of itself, can bring eternal life, but one that is serving to comfort His friends over His eventual separation from them. For Christ related thru parables that after He was taken away then the Apostels would mourn and weep while the world rejoiced. And also He reminded His apostles that they must follow and do everthing as He had commanded them even as He was the vine and they were the branches and the branches do not exist without the vine.
John 15:1-17,
“I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit. Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you. Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you. Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples. As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.* If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father’s commandments, and abide in his love.* These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full. This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you. Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you. Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you. Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you. These things I command you, that ye love one another.”

In my opinion, the Eucharist is a form of comfort-- even as the proper method of prayer and fasting were dictated/demonstrated by Christ-- so also is an acceptable form of mourning.
Also, I have eternal life as stemming from the continued observance of Christ’s commandment(s), (to love one another, etc.), and as something that must be maintained until ‘the end’ to be of any value.
I reach this conclusion in unity with Christ’s statement/rebuke that man does not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God, of which, He is ultimately the intercessor.
Matthew 4:1-4,
“Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.
And when he had fasted forty days and forty nights, he was afterward an hungred.
And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread. But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.”

 

[Janet1983]

FOR ANYONE TO SAY THAT MARY HAD OTHER CHILDREN IS
A DIRECT INSULT TO GOD THE FATHER, WHO SENT HIS ANGEL, GABRIEL, TO PROCLAIM TO HER, AND ONLY TO HER, “HAIL, FULL OF GRACE, THE LORD IS WITH THEE. BLESSED ART THOU AMONG WOMEN”.
FOR ANYONE TO SAY THAT MARY HAD OTHER CHILDREN IS
A DIRECT INSULT TO THE HOLY SPIRIT, WHO SANCTIFIED HER AS HIS SPOUSE, AND TO BE THE VESSEL TO CARRY THE WORD INCARNATE, THE SECOND PERSON OF THE HOLY TRINITY.
FOR ANYONE TO SAY THAT MARY HAD OTHER CHILDREN IS AN INSULT TO JESUS CHRIST, WHO WAS THE ONLY BEGOTTEN OF HIS MOTHER, AS HE HIMSELF WAS THE ONLY BEGOTTEN OF HIS FATHER IN HEAVEN.
FOR ANYONE TO SAY THAT MARY HAD OTHER CHILDREN IS AN INSULT TO THE BLESSED VIRGIN MARY, WHO WOULD HAVE TO HAVE CARRIED THE GUILT OF INGRATITUDE TO GOD FOREVER, IF SHE HAD DISCARDED THE PRECIOUS GIFT OF HER VIRGINITY WHICH GOD HAD SO METICULOUSLY PREPARED FOR HER IN THE CONCEPTION OF HIS WORD INCARNATE.
FOR ANYONE TO SAY THAT MARY HAD OTHER CHILDREN IS AN INSULT TO ST. JOSEPH. Knowing full well that Mary had given birth to the Word Incarnate, and that her Son was the second person of the Holy Trinity, the Son of GOD, he must have been awestruck by the event. He knew that just by her being the one chosen (Luke 1:27-33), and by an act of GOD, in protecting her virginity (Luke 1:34-38), that she was special, and by the special graces given to her, elevated her far above any other woman. After all what could possibly follow the honor and graces given her by the Holy Spirit? The Holy Spirit is her spouse and St. Joseph knew it when he was informed by the Angel in a dream (Matthew 1:20). Would any sane man be so vain as to father mere human children with her? The idea of the spouse of the Holy Spirit becoming a mother to one not by the Holy Spirit, would have been repulsive, and would have had all the ingredients of sacrilege to him.

You forgot something: The Link.

 

[Bill_Pick]

You forgot something: The Link.

I was wating to have breakfast B 4 I,l gave it to you,

 

[Janet1983]

I was wating to have breakfast B 4 I,l gave it to you,

 

[Bill_Pick]

You are right O Jerry Farwell may be in purgatory but he was okay with kicking out the books. Boy I love to get a email to him and see ,he may be in well you know < no he is part of the OSAS group.

 

[Bill_Pick]

You know Jerry was okay with taking out the books so he may be in purgatory,Boy Will he be surprize,I for get he is part of the OSAS only god will know where he is lets pray for him okay

 

[Bill_Pick]

That was a short answer but it is one of your best post,keep it up

 

[Bill_Pick]

That was a short answer but it was one of your best,keep it up

 

[Prieldedi]

In the same way that someone is not condemned by one witness but by two or three witnesses so then I often do not coclude things by solely one of Christ’s statements but by two or three of them, and then, usually only tentatively…

Sorry if this is off topic, but these are other passages that refer to the Holy Eucharist:

Genesis 14:18-19, «Melchizedek gave Abram bread and wine, for he was the priest of the most high God, and blessed him and said, “Blessed be Abram by the most high God, who created heaven and earth.”»

Malachi 1:11, «For from the rising of the sun even to the going down, my name is great among the Gentiles, and IN EVERY PLACE THERE IS A SACRIFICE, and there is offered to my name a clean oblation; for my name is great among the Gentiles.»

Matthew 6:9-13, «Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread. And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.» [Not just our material bread but also our Spiritual Bread]

Matthew 26:26-28, «While they were eating, Jesus took bread, said a blessing and broke it, and gave it to his disciples saying, “Take and eat; this is my body.” Then he took a cup and gave thanks, and passed it to them saying, "Drink this, all of you, for this is my blood, the blood of the Covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.»

Mark 14:22-27, «While they were eating, Jesus took bread, blessed and broke it, and gave it to them. And he said, “Take this, it is my body.” Then he took a cup and after he had given thanks, passed it to them and they all drank from it. And he said, “This is my blood, the blood of the Covenant, which is to be poured out for many. Truly, I say to you, I will not taste the fruit of the vine again until the day I drink the new wine in the kingdom of God.” After singing psalms of praise, they went out to the Hill of Olives. And Jesus said to them, "All of you will be confused and fall away; for the Scripture says: I will strike the shepherd and the sheep will be scattered.»

John 6, All of it, these are some excerpts:

John 6:26-27, «Amen, amen, I say to you, you seek me, not because you have seen signs, but because you have eaten of the loaves and have been filled. Do not labor for the food that perishes, but for that which endures onto LIFE EVERLASTING, which the Son of Man will give you. For upon Him, the Father, God Himself, has set his seal.»

John 6:32-33, «Amen, amen, I say to you. Moses did not give you the bread from heaven, but my Father gives you the TRUE BREAD FROM HEAVEN. For the bread of God is that which comes down from Heaven and gives life to the world.»

John 6:35, «I AM THE BREAD OF LIFE. He who comes to me shall not hunger, and he who believes in me shall never thirst.»

John 6:47-51, «Amen, amen, I say to you, he who believes in me has life everlasting, I AM THE BREAD OF LIFE. Your fathers ate the manna in the desert, and have died. This is the BREAD THAT COMES DOWN FROM HEAVEN, so that if anyone eat of it he will not die. I AM THE LIVING BREAD that has come down from heaven. If anyone eat of this bread, he shall LIVE FOREVER, and the bread that I will give is MY FLESH for the life of the world.»

John 6:53-58, «Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man, and DRINK HIS BLOOD, you shall not have life in you. He who EATS MY FLESH AND DRINKS MY BLOOD HAS LIFE EVERLASTING, and I will raise him up on the last day. For MY FLESH IS FOOD INDEED, AND MY BLOOD IS DRINK INDEED, HE WHO EATS MY FLESH, AND DRINKS MY BLOOD, ABIDES IN ME AND I IN HIM. As the living Father has sent me, and as I live because of the Father, so he who eats me, he also shall live because of me. This is the bread that has come down from heaven, not as your fathers ate the manna and died. He who eats this bread SHALL LIVE FOREVER.»

1 Corinthians 10:16-17, «The cup of blessing that we bless, is it not a communion with the blood of Christ? And the bread that we break, is it not a communion with the body of Christ? The bread is one, and so we, though many, form one body, sharing the one bread.»

1 Corinthians 11:23-29, «This is the tradition of the Lord that I received and that in my turn I have handed on to you; the Lord Jesus, on the night that he was delivered up, took bread and, after giving thanks, broke it, saying, “This is my body which is broken for you; do this in memory of me.” In the same manner, taking the cup after the supper, he said, “This cup is the new Covenant in my blood. Whenever you drink it, do it in memory of me.” So, then, whenever you eat of this bread and drink from this cup, you are proclaiming the death of the Lord until he comes. Therefore, if anyone eats of the bread or drinks from the cup of the Lord unworthily, he sins against the body and blood of the Lord. Let each one, then, examine himself before eating of the bread and drinking from the cup. Otherwise, he eats and drinks his own condemnation in not recognizing the Body.»

Hebrews 7, 8 & 9 (see Genesis 14:18-19)

Jesus INSISTED so much on this subject that one can’t believe that He was just talking “symbolically”. He explained always his parables. In John 6 there was no explanation at all, not to the disciples that left Him, nor to His Apostles because there was nothing to explain. Here we can use John 10:25, when Jesus said «I tell you and you do not believe.» On His last night before His death His Apostles heard Him once again talking about “eating His body” and “drinking His blood”. Then they understood what He meant in John 6. Too bad the other disciples chose to leave instead of staying with Him till the end, like the Apostles.

I invite you to read “The Mass, from Genesis to Revelation” by Richard Salbato here: unitypublishing.com/GREATEST.html

God bless you

 

[Angelo_Michael]

Sorry if this is off topic, but these are other passages that refer to the Holy Eucharist: …]

I invite you to read “The Mass, from Genesis to Revelation” by Richard Salbato here: unitypublishing.com/GREATEST.html

God bless you

John 14:15-26,
"If ye love me, keep my commandments. And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also. At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you. He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. …] If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father’s which sent me. These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you. But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. "
John 15:22-27,
“If I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not had sin: but now they have no cloke for their sin. He that hateth me hateth my Father also. If I had not done among them the works which none other man did, they had not had sin: but now have they both seen and hated both me and my Father. But this cometh to pass, that the word might be fulfilled that is written in their law, They hated me without a cause. But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.”
John 16:6-23,
“But because I have said these things unto you, sorrow hath filled your heart.
Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: Of sin, because they believe not on me; Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more; Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.
I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you. A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see me, because I go to the Father…] Verily, verily, I say unto you, That ye shall weep and lament, but the world shall rejoice: and ye shall be sorrowful, but your sorrow shall be turned into joy. A woman when she is in travail hath sorrow, because her hour is come: but as soon as she is delivered of the child, she remembereth no more the anguish, for joy that a man is born into the world. And ye now therefore have sorrow: but I will see you again, and your heart shall rejoice, and your joy no man taketh from you.”

How can the bread be Christ’s body and the wine His blood if He is resurrected and the apostles can touch Him? How can the Holy Spirit be Mary’s husband if 1) Joseph’s marriage to Mary was endorsed and recognized by Gabriel and 2) the Holy Spirit would not be given until after Christ’s crucifixion? Indeed, with God all things are possible, and if Mary was a widow at the time the Holy Spirit descended then it could make sense, but that is not the argument some are making, is it?

In my opinion the Eucharist is [more of] a reminder of the importance of mourning Christ’s death, even as in Ezekiel ch. 9, God pardoned the people who were saddened by the corruption in Jerusalem.
I wrote more about this here:
iusbvision.wordpress.com/2009/03/13/an-open-letter-to-meghan-mccain/

Hosea 6:5-7,
“Therefore have I hewed them by the prophets; I have slain them by the words of my mouth: and thy judgments are as the light that goeth forth. For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings. But they like men have transgressed the covenant: there have they dealt treacherously against me.”

John 17:1-3,
“These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.”

Christ is perfect before God and is the sole keeper of all of God’s laws. Thru His perfection we are able to attain mercy.

P.S. Thanks for the link.
Also, I do not necessarily endorse the views of the site for the link I have provided.

 

[Angelo_Michael]

How can the bread be Christ’s body and the wine His blood if He is resurrected and the apostles can touch Him? How can the Holy Spirit be Mary’s husband if 1) Joseph’s marriage to Mary was endorsed and recognized by Gabriel and 2) the Holy Spirit would not be given until after Christ’s crucifixion? Indeed, with God all things are possible, and if Mary was a widow at the time the Holy Spirit descended then it could make sense, but that is not the argument some are making, is it?

Before Christ gave Himself to be consumed He was consumed Himself-- by zeal.

Psalm 69:6-9,
“Let not them that wait on thee, O Lord GOD of hosts, be ashamed for my sake: let not those that seek thee be confounded for my sake, O God of Israel. Because for thy sake I have borne reproach; shame hath covered my face.* I am become a stranger unto my brethren, and an alien unto my mother’s children*. For the zeal of thine house hath eaten me up; and the reproaches of them that reproached thee are fallen upon me.”

John 2:13-17,
“And the Jews’ passover was at hand, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem, And found in the temple those that sold oxen and sheep and doves, and the changers of money sitting: And when he had made a scourge of small cords, he drove them all out of the temple, and the sheep, and the oxen; and poured out the changers’ money, and overthrew the tables; And said unto them that sold doves, Take these things hence; make not my Father’s house an house of merchandise. And his disciples remembered that it was written, The zeal of thine house hath eaten me up.”

So when Christ gave His body and blood as bread and wine to His apostles He was giving them the zeal they must need to carry out the works of God-- something, unlike Him, they did not possess already. And that is the hierarchy-- that God consumes Christ, and that we in turn, thru the Eucharist, [symbolically] consume Christ. But zeal does not necessarily come from without, it must come from within. One must believe that they are partaking of Christ’s body and blood and that they will be filled with zeal for the work God gave Christ and Christ gave us. This belief comes from within, or at least, one must receive it. Furthermore, one is under an obligation to surrender to the zeal, even as Christ did when He chose to follow God’s will for His life and align His own will with that of our Father.

*Italicized portion may have reinforced my assumption that Joseph and Mary had children together.

 

[FCEGM]

You say that since matter is God’s creation that it is therefore good, but Christ, who is the greatest of all of God’s creation, is not ‘good’, in an absolute sense, even by His own admission. When Christ refers to Himself as the ‘good shepherd’ it is a relative term that contrasts with the hired hand, and the thief. But, in an absolute sense, only God, who is Spirit, is good. You seem to be inevitably contradicting Christ’s statements in my opinion.

Nope. Note that Our Lord did not say that He wasn’t good; He asked the question “why do you call me good?” as a means to bring the person to true knowledge of Him.

re Matthew 19:17:

Ver. 17. Why askest thou me concerning good?[4] In the ordinary Greek copies, why dost thou call me good? (Witham) — One is good, &c. God alone, by his own nature, is essentially, absolutely, and unchangeably good; at the same time, he is the source of all created goodness, as all goodness is a mere emanation from his. The person here addressing our Saviour, appears not to have believed that Christ was God: wherefore our Saviour, to rectify his misconception, tells him that God alone is good, insinuating thereby, that he should believe him to be God, or cease to address him by the title of good. (Tirinus) — The sense is, that only God is good necessarily, and by his own nature. The Arians bring this place to shew, that Christ is not truly and properly God: but by this way of speaking, Christ does not deny that he is good, even by his nature, and consequently God; but seems to speak in this manner, to make the man know who he was. (Witham)

haydock1859.tripod.com/id37.html

Catholics are not Arians, nor are we Manichees. Yes, God is the essential good, but what He creates is likewise good because of the One Who creates matter for its proper end. Thus a denial of the goodness of matter is always a basic anti-Catholic attitude, even if not meant to be so.

The Eucharist is certainly comfort, but it is a comfort derived from the Reality of the Flesh and Blood we receive in a sacramental manner. Yes, indeed, “It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.” How much more is that true when the Bread IS the very Word of God Incarnate taken into our bodies for eternal life.

 

[Angelo_Michael]

Nope. Note that Our Lord did not say that He wasn’t good; He asked the question “why do you call me good?” as a means to bring the person to true knowledge of Him.

re Matthew 19:17:

haydock1859.tripod.com/id37.html

Catholics are not Arians, nor are we Manichees. Yes, God is the essential good, but what He creates is likewise good because of the One Who creates matter for its proper end. Thus a denial of the goodness of matter is always a basic anti-Catholic attitude, even if not meant to be so.

The Eucharist is certainly comfort, but it is a comfort derived from the Reality of the Flesh and Blood we receive in a sacramental manner. Yes, indeed, “It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.” How much more is that true when the Bread IS the very Word of God Incarnate taken into our bodies for eternal life.

I don’t know much about Catholicism, and from what I understand, neither do Catholics know much about me. For the most part, according to my observation, Catholicism is centered around rebellion against Christ, and Protestantism is in turn, a rebellion against Catholicism. Each one justifying itself in its own ways. And I know, from experience, that these justifications must be necessary even as the truth about me is not known or proclaimed by either Catholics or Protestants, and thus, justification for this failure must already be in process. But my main observation and statement concerning this is: [that] faith is more than rebellion and the justifications for it.

 

[FCEGM]

I don’t know much about Catholicism, and from what I understand, neither do Catholics know much about me.

The first is rather easily handled; the second is not to be worried about as a religion of one has few devotees.

For the most part, according to my observation, Catholicism is centered around rebellion against Christ, and Protestantism is in turn, a rebellion against Catholicism. Each one justifying itself in its own ways. And I know, from experience, that these justifications must be necessary even as the truth about me is not known or proclaimed by either Catholics or Protestants, and thus, justification for this failure must already be in process. But my main observation and statement concerning this is: [that] faith is more than rebellion and the justifications for it

Uh huh.

 

[Angelo_Michael]

The first is rather easily handled; the second is not to be worried about as a religion of one has few devotees.
…]
Uh huh.

“…a religion of one has few devotees.”
Are you talking specifically about me or Christianity in general?
John 16:32, “Behold, the hour cometh, yea, is now come, that ye shall be scattered, every man to his own, and shall leave me alone: and yet I am not alone, because the Father is with me.”
Matthew 7:12-14, “Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets. Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.”
Or are you arguing that the merit of a religion is based on the number of it’s followers?

“Uh huh.”
What do you mean by this?
It’s pretty vague but, considering the circumstances, I am reminded of Isaiah 28.
“Woe to the crown of pride, to the drunkards of Ephraim, whose glorious beauty is a fading flower, which are on the head of the fat valleys of them that are overcome with wine! Behold, the Lord hath a mighty and strong one, which as a tempest of hail and a destroying storm, as a flood of mighty waters overflowing, shall cast down to the earth with the hand. The crown of pride, the drunkards of Ephraim, shall be trodden under feet: And the glorious beauty, which is on the head of the fat valley, shall be a fading flower, and as the hasty fruit before the summer; which when he that looketh upon it seeth, while it is yet in his hand he eateth it up. In that day shall the LORD of hosts be for a crown of glory, and for a diadem of beauty, unto the residue of his people, And for a spirit of judgment to him that sitteth in judgment, and for strength to them that turn the battle to the gate. But they also have erred through wine, and through strong drink are out of the way; the priest and the prophet have erred through strong drink, they are swallowed up of wine, they are out of the way through strong drink; they err in vision, they stumble in judgment. For all tables are full of vomit and filthiness, so that there is no place clean. Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts. For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people. To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear. But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken. Wherefore hear the word of the LORD, ye scornful men, that rule this people which is in Jerusalem. Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves: Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste. Judgment also will I lay to the line, and righteousness to the plummet: and the hail shall sweep away the refuge of lies, and the waters shall overflow the hiding place. And your covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it. From the time that it goeth forth it shall take you: for morning by morning shall it pass over, by day and by night: and it shall be a vexation only to understand the report. For the bed is shorter than that a man can stretch himself on it: and the covering narrower than that he can wrap himself in it. For the LORD shall rise up as in mount Perazim, he shall be wroth as in the valley of Gibeon, that he may do his work, his strange work; and bring to pass his act, his strange act. Now therefore be ye not mockers, lest your bands be made strong: for I have heard from the Lord GOD of hosts a consumption, even determined upon the whole earth. Give ye ear, and hear my voice; hearken, and hear my speech. Doth the plowman plow all day to sow? doth he open and break the clods of his ground? When he hath made plain the face thereof, doth he not cast abroad the fitches, and scatter the cummin, and cast in the principal wheat and the appointed barley and rie in their place? For his God doth instruct him to discretion, and doth teach him. For the fitches are not threshed with a threshing instrument, neither is a cart wheel turned about upon the cummin; but the fitches are beaten out with a staff, and the cummin with a rod. Bread corn is bruised; because he will not ever be threshing it, nor break it with the wheel of his cart, nor bruise it with his horsemen. This also cometh forth from the LORD of hosts, which is wonderful in counsel, and excellent in working.”

and Luke 8:16-18, “No man, when he hath lighted a candle, covereth it with a vessel, or putteth it under a bed; but setteth it on a candlestick, that they which enter in may see the light. For nothing is secret, that shall not be made manifest; neither any thing hid, that shall not be known and come abroad. Take heed therefore how ye hear: for whosoever hath, to him shall be given; and whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken even that which he seemeth to have.”

Maybe you could elaborate or be more clear.

 

[Don_Hepler]

Psalm 12 (Of David),
“Help, LORD; for the godly man ceaseth; for the faithful fail from among the children of men. They speak vanity every one with his neighbour: with flattering lips and with a double heart do they speak. The LORD shall cut off all flattering lips, and the tongue that speaketh proud things: Who have said, With our tongue will we prevail; our lips are our own: who is lord over us? For the oppression of the poor, for the sighing of the needy, now will I arise, saith the LORD; I will set him in safety from him that puffeth at him. The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever. The wicked walk on every side, when the vilest men are exalted.”

Another reason I qoute scripture is for personal inspiration and to partake of the experience and insights of sanctified, authorized, and/or glorified people. It is unlikely that I, or presumably many others, would be able to remember every thing written in scripture at all times, if we were ever always aware of it to begin with. When I find something that seems pertinent I try to post it for others to reflect on as well.

It seems that we have gotten a little off topic and so I will summarize my views on the topic of the post, that Christ was an only Son:
It appears to me that the argument is perhaps best viewed as a lesson is the dangers of inference and assumption. For, as it were, some Catholic translations of the Bible have led me to assume, thru their assertions, that the Hebrew Old Testament said things that it did not. And also, I have witnessed, what could be considered as, a certain perversion of New Testament scripture from those same translations. I am not asserting that the translations are indicative of all Catholic theology and doctrinology. Yet, the present argument pertaining to Mary, Joseph, and Christ, and the position of the Catholic Church has reminded me of the importance of evaluating a matter fully and not drawing unnecessary conclusions. However, I am not an expert, in any way, of this or any other language(s) such as: Greek, Hebrew, Aramaic, Latin, or others.

I hope when the scriptures you wrote were not referring to me as flattering words. I find that most religions quote scriptures and have no understanding of their meaning. I have always been interested in what constitutes scriptures, and who qualified it as such. For they are nothing but stories that have been written to tell history of the lives and a person who taught a way of life. We all raise our hand and say this is good, lets, make this scripture, the shortest words in the New Testament…Jesus wept. Let’s make that scripture. or the word of God, Men find records and compile them, translate them, and then we make them scripture?. The people in what we call authoritative make it so, rather than a chosen record, or ancient record. But now It is Holy scripture. I talk about Eli and teach strange doctrine, and it is scripture, you find it strange, and wonder who I am. You write down all the words that Jesus said, and you could read it in 5 minutes , are you saying that is all he said Five or ten minutes of his life that you have in the works of his existence. The dead sea scrolls were found, but these are not consider scripture. The bible to me was written to the Jews, & Israel, it doesn’t belong to you, nor can you claim it. we can’t claim it, to be ours, it is written for the Lords people Israel. But since you think that the Jews killed and rejected Jesus, that you can claim him for yourself. You say that Christ died for the world and to those who believed on him, and so it is. But then the world was Israel, whom he died for. You claim authority, which you do not have, because only Israel had such blessings. The power came through the blood line. It was passed on through the lineage of Israel. You think that you can go to College and be trained for the ministry, and receive the priesthood, Man gave you this authority, But the true power of God his priesthood comes through Lineage, the Blood line. pass on from father to Son. You build up religions to get gain, you take the scriptures thousands of years old and claim it yours, You make me laugh. And then you quote from it as if you understood what they ment as if you were there, And then you rattle of scripture as if you were shooting a gun ( I got you with that scripture). Israel is Gods chosen people and they will always be. If you want to be apart of this blessing you will have to be adopted in, but it won’t be on your grounds and the way you perceive it should be. You cannot claim what you do not have, nor can you claim Christ, only on the grounds he set up, under his authority, and through adoption since you are not Israel. And don’t flatter me with scripture quoting. The Bible belongs to Israel, the Priesthood of God belongs to Israel, and Christ Church belongs to Israel. And his church is not on this forum, I don’t care how badly you want it to be, and how you pray to your unseeing God, It will not change you blood to Israel’s blood. We are his people we are the Chosen. We have not sinned against our God, as our forefather, And you cannot claim what is not your birthright. God Bless

 

[Angelo_Michael]

I hope when the scriptures you wrote were not referring to me as flattering words. I find that most religions quote scriptures and have no understanding of their meaning. I have always been interested in what constitutes scriptures, and who qualified it as such. For they are nothing but stories that have been written to tell history of the lives and a person who taught a way of life. We all raise our hand and say this is good, lets, make this scripture, the shortest words in the New Testament…Jesus wept. Let’s make that scripture. or the word of God, Men find records and compile them, translate them, and then we make them scripture?. The people in what we call authoritative make it so, rather than a chosen record, or ancient record. But now It is Holy scripture. I talk about Eli and teach strange doctrine, and it is scripture, you find it strange, and wonder who I am. You write down all the words that Jesus said, and you could read it in 5 minutes , are you saying that is all he said Five or ten minutes of his life that you have in the works of his existence. The dead sea scrolls were found, but these are not consider scripture. The bible to me was written to the Jews, & Israel, it doesn’t belong to you, nor can you claim it. we can’t claim it, to be ours, it is written for the Lords people Israel. But since you think that the Jews killed and rejected Jesus, that you can claim him for yourself. You say that Christ died for the world and to those who believed on him, and so it is. But then the world was Israel, whom he died for. You claim authority, which you do not have, because only Israel had such blessings. The power came through the blood line. It was passed on through the lineage of Israel. You think that you can go to College and be trained for the ministry, and receive the priesthood, Man gave you this authority, But the true power of God his priesthood comes through Lineage, the Blood line. pass on from father to Son. You build up religions to get gain, you take the scriptures thousands of years old and claim it yours, You make me laugh. And then you quote from it as if you understood what they ment as if you were there, And then you rattle of scripture as if you were shooting a gun ( I got you with that scripture). Israel is Gods chosen people and they will always be. If you want to be apart of this blessing you will have to be adopted in, but it won’t be on your grounds and the way you perceive it should be. You cannot claim what you do not have, nor can you claim Christ, only on the grounds he set up, under his authority, and through adoption since you are not Israel. And don’t flatter me with scripture quoting. The Bible belongs to Israel, the Priesthood of God belongs to Israel, and Christ Church belongs to Israel. And his church is not on this forum, I don’t care how badly you want it to be, and how you pray to your unseeing God, It will not change you blood to Israel’s blood. We are his people we are the Chosen. We have not sinned against our God, as our forefather, And you cannot claim what is not your birthright. God Bless

Leviticus 19:31-34,
“Regard not them that have familiar spirits, neither seek after wizards, to be defiled by them: I am the LORD your God. Thou shalt rise up before the hoary head, and honour the face of the old man, and fear thy God: I am the LORD. And if a stranger sojourn with thee in your land, ye shall not vex him. But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.”

Matthew 8:10-12,
“When Jesus heard it, he marvelled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel. And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven. But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”

Isaiah 19:23-25,
"In that day shall there be a highway out of Egypt to Assyria, and the Assyrian shall come into Egypt, and the Egyptian into Assyria, and the Egyptians shall serve with the Assyrians. In that day shall Israel be the third with Egypt and with Assyria, even a blessing in the midst of the land: Whom the LORD of hosts shall bless, saying, Blessed be Egypt my people, and Assyria the work of my hands, and Israel mine inheritance.

God does not belong to Israel, Israel belongs to God.

 

[Don_Hepler]

Gen:27:28-29 Therefore God give thee of dew of heaven, and the fatness of the earth, and plenty of corn and wine; Let people serve thee, and nations bow down to thee: be lord over thy brethern, and let thy mother’s sons bow down to thee; cursed be every one that curseth thee, and blessed be he that blesseth thee.
Gen 28. 14 And thy seed shall be as the dust of the earth, and thou shalt spread abroad to the west, and to the east, and to the north, and to the south: and in thee and in thy seed shall all the families of the earth be blessed.
Isa: 49: 6-7 And he said, it is a light thing that thou shouldest be servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a LIGHT to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth Thus saith the Lord, the redeemer of Israel, (not to the Gentiles)and his Holy one, to him whom man despiseth, to him whom the nation abhorreth, to a servant of rulers, Kings shall see and arise, princes also shall worship because of the Holy One of Israel, and he shall choose thee. Verse 14-16 But Zion said, The Lord hath forsaken me, and my Lord hath forgotten me. 15 Can a woman forget her sucking child, that she should not have compassion on the son of her womb? yea, they may forget, yet will I not forget thee.
16…Behold, I have graven thee upon the palms of my hands; thy walls are continually before me.
Isaiah 60 (Israel shall rise again as a mighty nation) Verse 1.Arise, shine; for thy light is come and the glory of the Lord is risen upon thee. 2, For, behold, the darkness shall cover the earth, and gross darkness of the people; but the Lord shall arise upon thee, and his glory shall be seen upon thee. And the GENTILES shall come to THY LIGHT, and kings to the brightness of thy rising.(YOU ARE IN THE GROSSNESS OF DARKNESS< AND ONLY IF YOU HEED TO ISRAEL WILL YOU HAVE LIGHT)
Matthew 10: 5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying GO NOT INTO THE WAY OF THE GENTILES AND INTO ANY CITY OF THE SAMARITANS ENTER YE NOT: 6) But go rather to the Lost sheep of the house of Israel. And as ye go, preach, saying the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
17) But beware of men; for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues; 18) And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony AGAINST them and the GENTILES. 22…And ye shall be hated of all men for my name’s sake; but he that endureth to the end ye shall be saved.
Matthew 15:22 And behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou Son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil. 23) But he answered her not a word…(H-M-M-M) And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away: (H-M-M-M)for she crieth after us.24)fsd But he answered and said, I AM NOT SENT BUT UNTO THE LOST SHEEP OF THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL. You see He Christ belongs to us. He is not yours we are the Light to you, and the only way you can pertake of his blessings is you must be adopted. and if you choose not to, you will be cast out as a unbeliever with the rest of you Gentiles. I know the scriptures pertaining you, and your false religious beliefs, you know not the scriptures because they do not belong to you they are ours, I advise you to repent and follow the true light of Israel whom we bare. their are other scriptures But let this suffice. Your right Our God is Israel’s God and we belong to him.

 

[mathematician]

many say jesus had more brothers because on the cross, “When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto his mother, Woman, behold thy son!” John wasnt marys son! ?? anyone care to elaborate on these beliefs…

The New Testament in several places refers to Jesus’s brothers and sisters. Protestants can take those passages at face value. Catholics have to explain them away because they are hooked upon the notion of Mary’s perpetual virginity.

 

[Angelo_Michael]

…visit reply #277, or follow link in quote…]

John 10:1-16,
“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber. But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep. To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out. And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice. And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers. …] Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep. All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them. **I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture. The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly. I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep. …] I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine. As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep. And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.”

Not everyone is willing to go thru the gate; to accept Christ as the Son of God. (Consider also 2 Kings 7: All, and Matthew 25:31-46)

John 16:12-12:
“I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you. A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see me, because I go to the Father.”

Remember that Isaiah has already related that God has covenants also with other people.
(Consider also Daniel chapter 4, especially verses 17 & 37.)

Genesis 49:22-26,
“Joseph is a fruitful bough, even a fruitful bough by a well; whose branches run over the wall: The archers have sorely grieved him, and shot at him, and hated him: But his bow abode in strength, and the arms of his hands were made strong by the hands of the mighty God of Jacob; **(from thence is the shepherd, the stone of Israel) **Even by the God of thy father, who shall help thee; and by the Almighty, who shall bless thee with blessings of heaven above, blessings of the deep that lieth under, blessings of the breasts, and of the womb: The blessings of thy father have prevailed above the blessings of my progenitors unto the utmost bound of the everlasting hills: they shall be on the head of Joseph, and on the crown of the head of him that was separate from his brethren.”

I used to think Uriah was an Ephraimite, and then, when I realized he was a Hittite, I wondered if some of the other men that David forfeited were Ephraimite and would therefore qualify to be an Abel-like shepherd with David being similar to Cain, in at least one regard.

Jeremiah 31:7-9,
"For thus saith the LORD; Sing with gladness for Jacob, and shout among the chief of the nations: publish ye, praise ye, and say, O LORD, save thy people, the remnant of Israel.
Behold, I will bring them from the north country, and gather them from the coasts of the earth, and with them the blind and the lame, the woman with child and her that travaileth with child together: a great company shall return thither. They shall come with weeping, and with supplications will I lead them: I will cause them to walk by the rivers of waters in a straight way, wherein they shall not stumble: for I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is my firstborn."
and–
Psalm 89:20-35,
“I have found David my servant; with my holy oil have I anointed him: With whom my hand shall be established: mine arm also shall strengthen him. The enemy shall not exact upon him; nor the son of wickedness afflict him. And I will beat down his foes before his face, and plague them that hate him. But my faithfulness and my mercy shall be with him: and in my name shall his horn be exalted. I will set his hand also in the sea, and his right hand in the rivers. He shall cry unto me, Thou art my father, my God, and the rock of my salvation. Also I will make him my firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth. My mercy will I keep for him for evermore, and my covenant shall stand fast with him. His seed also will I make to endure for ever, and his throne as the days of heaven. If his children forsake my law, and walk not in my judgments; If they break my statutes, and keep not my commandments; Then will I visit their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with stripes. Nevertheless my lovingkindness will I not utterly take from him, nor suffer my faithfulness to fail. My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips. Once have I sworn by my holiness that I will not lie unto David.”

There are obviously contradictions between these two excerpts, and one can understand the validity of them both when viewed in relation to Christ’s testimony.

Also consider Matthew 20:1-16, especially verses 15 &16.
"Is it not lawful for me to do what I will with mine own? Is thine eye evil, because I am good? So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen."