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FCEGM
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You just keep making me more and more mushy, don’t you?
Sorry if I have been quite cold in the past but I will try to be more thoughtful from now on.
It’s that thoughtful heart which will understand Mary. 
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It’s that thoughtful heart which will understand Mary.
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Zundrah
Guest
Amen!
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FCEGM
Guest
Unfortunately, that’s the case when the truth meets error.Zundrah: Well, that’s really cool; that your side can prove that Mary was a perpetual virgin I meanIn some ways, that statement is divisive, sort of like us versus them!
It’s not that “someone long ago believed”, but rather the whole Church believed from the beginning with its knowledge of her and still holds fast to this belief. It wasn’t disbelieved among Christians until Luther helped spawn the unbelievers, although he himself believed in Mary’s Perpetual Virginity.
Some facts for you:
cin.org/users/james/files/talmud.htm
As the truth often does. “Theories and possibilities” abound regarding the Resurrection of the Lord - many believing, many denying. The deniers don’t falsify the truth about the Resurrection anymore than the deniers falsify the truth about the Holy Virgin.
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Zundrah
Guest
Is there a reason why they didn’t have kids or is it because Joseph died early after Christ’s birth?Unfortunately, that’s the case when the truth meets error.
It’s not that “someone long ago believed”, but rather the whole Church believed from the beginning with its knowledge of her and still holds fast to this belief. It wasn’t disbelieved among Christians until Luther helped spawn the unbelievers, although he himself believed in Mary’s Perpetual Virginity.
Some facts for you:
cin.org/users/james/files/talmud.htm
As the truth often does. “Theories and possibilities” abound regarding the Resurrection of the Lord - many believing, many denying. The deniers don’t falsify the truth about the Resurrection anymore than the deniers falsify the truth about the Holy Virgin.
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Prieldedi
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Divisive is showing disrespect for the Mother of Jesus.Zundrah: Well, that’s really cool; that your side can prove that Mary was a perpetual virgin I mean
Why would the Early Christians “invent” Mary’s Perpetual Virginity? For what reason? What would have they gained by “inventing” it?
You say: “So someone long ago believed that Mary remained a virgin”
… correction: Someone long ago KNEW that Mary remained a virgin… Jesus, and we believe Him. These are hard facts.
So you see, with that “someone” as our witness, why not believe?
God bless you
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Zundrah
Guest
Prieldedi,
This is difficult to say but… can you understand what I mean when I tell you that stating to a person that because he doesn’t believe that Mary was a virgin makes him disrespectful just doesn’t make sense? They are in the belief that she had kids, that’s not disrespectful! That’s just ignorance!
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FCEGM
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Jennifer, the articles I gave you - as do many of the posts on this thread - explain it well. Have you followed the links I gave you?
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Zundrah
Guest
Sorry, I have been distracted but I’ll go on them now and pm you or post here when I have checked a few of them.
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Zundrah
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Okay then, I will think deeply about this tonight just as I did with the Eucharist.
P.S. What mystery on the rosary should I select for this subject?
Posted by you FCEGM;
P.S. What mystery on the rosary should I select for this subject?
Posted by you FCEGM;
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1beleevr
Guest
To all of you who have responded to my posts, concerning whether or not Mary and Joseph had sexual relations, and whether or not Mary had additional children: First of all, I have never definitively said that Mary had other children I, like countless others, have raised the POSSIBILTY of said situation, based on the incredible powr and mercy of Our God! While I respect the catholic position, and their desire to keep Mary pristine, I also know that God brought together two humble servants, who carried out the task of a lifetime, and were richly rewarded! And while Mary, in all reality, has nothing to do with my own personal salvation(42 years now; Yippee!!!), she was a integral part of the plan of salvation! Things spiritual are often times confusing and intriguing to our pea brains, but we MUST believe that God is capable of ANYTHING! Did Mary and Joseph have relations? If you interpret Matthew 1:25, a certain way, you could make an argument for the fact that they consummated their union! I am aware that in order to make a case for Mary being the new Eve, or the new Ark of the Covenant, she must remain a virgin! But we must also keep in mind, that Mary was born of a woman, who like all after Adam and Eve, were born into a sinful world, with a sin nature(Romans 5:12). I love Jesus more than my wife, my family, more than life itself, and cannot elevate Mary, or anyone else to a position even remotely close to Christ! So, with complete respect for your sensibilities, when it comes to Mary, and her supposed virginity, allow me to offer the POSSIBILTY that she may not have been for the rest of her life(after Jesus). Our God is unbelievable, and can do anything He chooses! Mary was an awesome servant, whom I believe God chose, blessed and used for our benefit! God bless all of you!
I, like countless others, have raised the POSSIBILTY of said situation, based on the incredible powr and mercy of Our God! While I respect the catholic position, and their desire to keep Mary pristine, I also know that God brought together two humble servants, who carried out the task of a lifetime, and were richly rewarded! And while Mary, in all reality, has nothing to do with my own personal salvation(42 years now; Yippee!!!), she was a integral part of the plan of salvation! Things spiritual are often times confusing and intriguing to our pea brains, but we MUST believe that God is capable of ANYTHING! Did Mary and Joseph have relations? If you interpret Matthew 1:25, a certain way, you could make an argument for the fact that they consummated their union! I am aware that in order to make a case for Mary being the new Eve, or the new Ark of the Covenant, she must remain a virgin! But we must also keep in mind, that Mary was born of a woman, who like all after Adam and Eve, were born into a sinful world, with a sin nature(Romans 5:12). I love Jesus more than my wife, my family, more than life itself, and cannot elevate Mary, or anyone else to a position even remotely close to Christ! So, with complete respect for your sensibilities, when it comes to Mary, and her supposed virginity, allow me to offer the POSSIBILTY that she may not have been for the rest of her life(after Jesus). Our God is unbelievable, and can do anything He chooses! Mary was an awesome servant, whom I believe God chose, blessed and used for our benefit! God bless all of you!
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1beleevr
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prieldedi: The reason I said that “someone long ago believed”, was because, since there is no written evidence, save for oral tradition, then one is to presume that it was the collective belief that Mary did remain a virgin! And we really don’t know how long Joseph lived after Jesus was born, or if he and Mary had sexual relations, or other children, for that matter
We know that Joseph lived at least 12 more years, and then there is the debate over Jesus’s brothers, or not
Did Jesus speak(written or unwritten) about His mother’s virginity? And how have I disrespected the mother of Christ? By not believing in her perpetual virginity? That is weak
Don’t ever underestimate the power of God, and His ability to do whatever He sees fit to do!!!
We know that Joseph lived at least 12 more years, and then there is the debate over Jesus’s brothers, or notDid Jesus speak(written or unwritten) about His mother’s virginity? And how have I disrespected the mother of Christ? By not believing in her perpetual virginity? That is weak Don’t ever underestimate the power of God, and His ability to do whatever He sees fit to do!!!
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FCEGM
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The Annunciation and the Nativity from the Joyous Mysteries, should be helpful, Jennifer.
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FCEGM
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I do very much appreciate your approach to this issue, 1b.. . . I love Jesus more than my wife, my family, more than life itself, and cannot elevate Mary, or anyone else to a position even remotely close to Christ! So, with complete respect for your sensibilities, when it comes to Mary, and her supposed virginity, allow me to offer the POSSIBILTY that she may not have been for the rest of her life(after Jesus). Our God is unbelievable, and can do anything He chooses! Mary was an awesome servant, whom I believe God chose, blessed and used for our benefit! God bless all of you!
Regarding your offering the possibility, you see, the matter is settled by the authority of Christ’s Church; ours, then, is a certitude not open to this possibility anymore than our certitude about Christ being the Savior is open to a possibility of His not being such.To quote St. Augustine: “For my part, I should not believe the gospel except moved by the authority of the Catholic Church.”
God bless you in all ways.
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FCEGM
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Yes, we do. They didn’t.
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Prieldedi
Guest
I didn’t say 1beleevr has been disrespectful to Mary.
1beleevr is the one that raised the “divisiveness” issue.
I don’t consider that by saying “our side” I’m erecting a barrier of “us” vs “them” as 1beleevr believes.
If I had used “we” instead of “our side” 1beleevr would’ve reply in the same manner: In some ways, that statement [WE] is divisive.
It’s not ignorance. The Blessed Virgin Mary is OUR SPIRITUAL Mother, Catholics have known for more than 2000 years, BEYOND ANY REASONABLE DOUBT, that She remained and still is a Virgin, that she did not had any more children. Those who say she did, are committing calumny and slander, and are offending the Holy Trinity and the Holy Family.
This is not difficult to say… can you understand now why we defend Her like we do? Any person would do the same if his/her mother’s integrity is attacked.
“LET NO ONE PRESUME TO HOPE FOR THE MERCY OF GOD, WHO DARES TO SLIGHT OR OFFEND GOD’S MOTHER.”
St. Louis de Montfort
God bless you
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1beleevr
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That’s the beauty of free will; you can believe that God, in His infinite wisdom, can do anything! Was there someone there, in Biblical times, who knows for a fact, that this marriage was not consummated? The wordPOSSIBILITY exists all through life
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1beleevr
Guest
prieldedi: It is unfortunate, and sad that, for whatever reasons, there is divisiveness, even in the realm of believers! That is why there are so many religions worldwide
And maybe even subconsciously, churches DO put up barriers, and say, in essence,"If you want to be a part of our church; you ust do this, this, oh, and this too, at least once weekly! When will it end? When humility becomes the rule, rather than the exception! I can only imagine what shape this world would be in, if Jesus had offered salvation to only ONE group of people Thank goodness He offered it to ALL(John 3:16)
And maybe even subconsciously, churches DO put up barriers, and say, in essence,"If you want to be a part of our church; you ust do this, this, oh, and this too, at least once weekly! When will it end? When humility becomes the rule, rather than the exception! I can only imagine what shape this world would be in, if Jesus had offered salvation to only ONE group of people Thank goodness He offered it to ALL(John 3:16)
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FCEGM
Guest
Not when God has taught that, in fact, something is not a possibility, as He does through His Church re Mary and Joseph. Do you entertain the possibility that Jesus didn’t rise from the dead? Free will is given to us that we may believe what God presents to us for our assent of faith, not so that we may embrace error by believing that which we might prefer.That’s the beauty of free will; you can believe that God, in His infinite wisdom, can do anything! Was there someone there, in Biblical times, who knows for a fact, that this marriage was not consummated? The wordPOSSIBILITY exists all through life
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Don_Hepler
Guest
What are Christ promises that you say at the bottom of your thoughts, Christ is for Israel he has no promises for you.
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Don_Hepler
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My My… He did offer it to one group read the scriptures That people Is Israel, You may try and steel what is not yours but the truth remains. The bible and Christ is not for the Gentiles it is and has always been for Israel, even in the Old Testiment, Moses gathered His people Israel. Christ proclaimed I am not sent BUT to the LOST sheep of the house of Israel. Your churches have no claim on The Anointed ONE or the bible that you hold so dearly to your heart. You can’t claim him. and you can’t steal our scriptures and add your twist to it. He didn’t die for you he died for the children of Abraham, The only way you can embrace him is to be adopted. And give up your belief dogma,prieldedi: It is unfortunate, and sad that, for whatever reasons, there is divisiveness, even in the realm of believers! That is why there are so many religions worldwide
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