Jesus was an only son.. Mary did not have more children!!

[PRmerger]

prmerger: Apparently, you do not have a scripture verse, outlining primary and secondary essentials for salvation either At least not for belief in Mary’s perpetual virginity, being a requirement for salvation Sounds good though

Ah, but 1beleevr, that is YOUR criterion for belief–it has to be in Scripture–not the CC’s. Thus, when you claim something to be an 'essential" belief, when there is no Scriptural verse that confirms this, you are adding to Scripture.

As a Catholic, however, I have the benefit of Scripture, Tradition and the Magisterium to protect and interpret the Divine Word. I, indeed, have assurance of what’s essential and what’s "secondary.

 

[1beleevr]

prmerger: Very convenient answer, however it does not verify the proposition that other catholic posters have put fort; that one must believe in Mary’s perpetual virginity to complete their salvation But, it seems to work for your religion!

 

[1beleevr]

goodfella: Doesn’t the Blood of Christ wash away sins,you know,“Nothing But the Blood?” And what exactly is “original sin?” Is this verse in Ezekiel where you get the basis for sprinkling, rather than immersion?

 

[PRmerger]

prmerger: Very convenient answer, however it does not verify the proposition that other catholic posters have put fort; that one must believe in Mary’s perpetual virginity to complete their salvation But, it seems to work for your religion!

What do you mean by it “works” for my religion?

 

[avflf]

Ah, but 1beleevr, that is YOUR criterion for belief–it has to be in Scripture–not the CC’s. Thus, when you claim something to be an 'essential" belief, when there is no Scriptural verse that confirms this, you are adding to Scripture.

As a Catholic, however, I have the benefit of Scripture, Tradition and the Magisterium to protect and interpret the Divine Word. I, indeed, have assurance of what’s essential and what’s "secondary.

You seem to come highly qualified so could you please answer the poor chap and lay his fears to rest? Is the belief in Mary’s perpetual virginity necessary for salvation? YES or NO? Thanks.

 

[tweetymom]

You seem to come highly qualified so could you please answer the poor chap and lay his fears to rest? Is the belief in Mary’s perpetual virginity necessary for salvation? YES or NO? Thanks.

I’m probably not qualified but the answer is NO!

 

[avflf]

I’m probably not qualified but the answer is NO!

Thanks for your (name removed by moderator)ut. I’ll see if PRmerger is of the same opinion, but if he says “YES” we’ll have to open it up to a vote.

 

[Prieldedi]

prieldedi: What exactly would I be in danger of, anyway! If I am saved, doesn’t the blood of Christ cover me? Must I also believe in Mary’s perpetual virginity, in order to cross the River into paradise?

You MUST believe in the ONES who told you about Mary’s Perpetual Virginity, because they have received KNOWLEDGE of the Truth, and they are giving it to you.

If you refuse to believe them and reject KNOWLEDGE of the Truth, then you are “rebellious”, and rebellion to the eyes of God is a sin:

Hebrews 10:26-27, “If we sin willfully after receiving knowledge of the truth, there is no longer sacrifice for sin, but only the fearful prospect of judgment and of fire which devours the rebellious.”

We are not saved automatically. We can be lost in the last minute, just as many sinners will be saved in the last minute. You know Matthew 7:21-22, Not everyone who says to me: Lord! Lord! will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my heavenly Father. Many will say to me on that day, “Lord, Lord, did we not speak in your name? Did we not cast out devils and perform many miracles in your name?”

Jesus isn’t talking about “pagans”, “atheists” or “non Christians” here. He is talking about MANY of his followers, MANY Christians (Lord, Lord, did we not speak in your name?), who even made miracles! (priests, pastors?)

Even though they believed in Him, they did not do the will of His heavenly Father. John 17:21 comes to mind: “May they all be one as you Father are in me and I am in you.” Are we doing His will?

God bless you

 

[avflf]

You MUST believe in the ONES who told you about Mary’s Perpetual Virginity, because they have received KNOWLEDGE of the Truth, and they are giving it to you.

If you refuse to believe them and reject KNOWLEDGE of the Truth, then you are “rebellious”, and rebellion to the eyes of God is a sin:

Hebrews 10:26-27, “If we sin willfully after receiving knowledge of the truth, there is no longer sacrifice for sin, but only the fearful prospect of judgment and of fire which devours the rebellious.”

We are not saved automatically. We can be lost in the last minute, just as many sinners will be saved in the last minute. You know Matthew 7:21-22, Not everyone who says to me: Lord! Lord! will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my heavenly Father. Many will say to me on that day, “Lord, Lord, did we not speak in your name? Did we not cast out devils and perform many miracles in your name?”

Jesus isn’t talking about “pagans”, “atheists” or “non Christians” here. He is talking about MANY of his followers, MANY Christians (Lord, Lord, did we not speak in your name?), who even made miracles! (priests, pastors?)

Even though they believed in Him, they did not do the will of His heavenly Father. John 17:21 comes to mind: “May they all be one as you Father are in me and I am in you.” Are we doing His will?

God bless you

I take it you’re in the “YES” camp, right?

 

[tweetymom]

I take it you’re in the “YES” camp, right?

Seems like it avflf lol

 

[Prieldedi]

I take it you’re in the “YES” camp, right?

I can’t say with certainty how God will deal with those who don’t believe in Mary’s Perpetual Virginity. What I say is, don’t take chances.

If Jesus is the Truth and you love Jesus, then you must love the Truth.

If it’s true that Mary is Ever Virgin (as She is) and you reject it, then you reject Truth, and in doing so you reject Jesus.

In the end, those who reject Her are in fact rejecting Him.

God bless you

 

[avflf]

I can’t say with certainty how God will deal with those who don’t believe in Mary’s Perpetual Virginity. What I say is, don’t take chances.

If Jesus is the Truth and you love Jesus, then you must love the Truth.

If it’s true that Mary is Ever Virgin (as She is) and you reject it, then you reject Truth, and in doing so you reject Jesus.

In the end, those who reject Her are in fact rejecting Him.

God bless you

Thanks for your reply. At present I have an emphatic “NO” from tweetymom and a tentative “YES” from you. May I encourage all Catholics in this thread to give their informed opinion on this matter? Thank you all.

 

[SonofMonica]

Thanks for your reply. At present I have an emphatic “NO” from tweetymom and a tentative “YES” from you. May I encourage all Catholics in this thread to give their informed opinion on this matter? Thank you all.

Prieldedi’s answer is the correct one. The Catholic Church does not condemn anyone to hell. We do not offer assurances of salvation for those who “believe the right thing”; rather we offer the Truth of the gospel message of Christ, and that includes Mary’s Perpetual Virginity. God alone is the Judge of the souls of men. We are but witnesses to his saving power and grace and the Truth of all Apostolic teaching (“Tradition” which is embodied in oral teaching and scripture), and all we can do is share that Truth with you. There is no minimum for salvation; there is only the whole Truth.

 

[1beleevr]

prmerger: Is it not the catholic(and perhaps the EO) that are putting forth the idea that to be fully saved, one must believe that Mary remained a virgin after Jesus was born? So that is what I mean by it works for your religion! It is obvious that many others(mostly us pesky non catholics) who either do not believe at all in her perpeual virginity, are on the fence, or don’t believe she was perpetually a virgin!

 

[1beleevr]

prieldedi:Let me se if I can succintly break down your post#866First I see two(2) key words that catch my eye:willfull and rebellious. Willful disobedience, is of course, knowing it is wrong, and doing it anyway; while rebellion may be interpreted any number of ways. Some times we rebel, because we don’t agree with something, or we feel oppressed. Personally, when it comes to Christians, if I hear that someone has “lost” their salvation(jury’s still out on that one), or is WILLFULLY committing sin, it makes me wonder about their salvationI know myself that Jesus has removed many of the desires I used to have, for doing things that are against God’s will. I’m not perfect by any means; as are all Christians, but God is constantly shaping me(Philippians 1:6). Until I encountered catholics, I had only heard of Mary’s virginity prior to Jesus’s birth. And as for that verse,Matthew 7:21-22, could it be possible that He is talking about “faux” Christians, you know the kind, going through the motions, hoping to get to Heaven, but become transparent under the light of the Truth. We know the Truth; and someday, we will fully know Him and He will set us free:thumbsup:You are correct, we do not know what is in men’s hearts, just as we cannot understand the depth of God’s understanding. Not sure about last minute loss of salvation, for one who, because he/she is human, will be tempted to sin, but knows he is forgiven. The person who does fall away, and willfully sins, may never have been truly saved in the first place:thumbsup:

 

[1beleevr]

elvisman: I am going to take you at your word, that you have a scripture to back up,"you’re not saved until you’re in Heaven!Period! Perhaps safe in Heaven is a better choice of words! Even though we are saved by the Blood, and baptism, we are not safe from the wiles of the DevilAnd anyone with a lick of logic and sense, knows that salvation is a lifelong process. My wife and I were discussing OSAS, and she said that she believed that if she had died while she was away from the Lord, she wouldn’t have gone to Heaven. I said, "I don’t know for sure if you would’ve or notThen I said, "Why do you think that God protected you, during those dark times?"Hey, my Bible does not have 2Peter2:26-27; it only goes to 21 And in Matthew 7:21-22, Jesus may have POSSIBLY meant “faux” Christians; those who can "talk the talk, but can’t walk the walk!"Who MAY be window dressing, going through the motions, hoping to “sneak” into Heaven I don’t believe that you can definitively translate 1Cor9:27, to mean that if you do something, like sin that you may lose your salvation! It could mean that if you are not vigilant in keeping yourself “fit”, in the Lord’s ways(priest, pastor, apostle) you may lose the privilege of doing the Lord’s work(in other words; practice what you preach).Romans 8:24(should include verse 25), it is, I believe talking about being patient, persevering and faithful that God wil deliver on His promise of eternal life! Not totally sure how to interpret Romans 11:22, but it may have something to do with willful disobedience and falling into darkness, after having been in the light. Bottom line is, I cannot in good conscience, tell anyone that they can, or have lost their salvation:thumbsup: This is God’s dominion, and He knows what is in a man’s heart Real quick, off topic; a non believer approaches you, deduces that you are a Christian, because you are reading your Bible. He/she says,“Tell me about Jesus!” What would you, elvisman do?

 

[PRmerger]

.Not sure about last minute loss of salvation, for one who, because he/she is human, will be tempted to sin, but knows he is forgiven. The person who does fall away, and willfully sins, may never have been truly saved in the first place

This comments reminds me of something I read from Catholic Apologist John Martignoni:

*Every believer in once saved always saved that I have ever met, also believes that there are those out there who think they are saved, but really are not – the faux believers, as I call them. So, ask anyone who believes in OSAS these questions (this is from an actual conversation):

Question: Are ther e people who think they’re saved, but they really aren’t?

Answer: Yes, there are.

Question: Are you saved?

Answer: Yes, I am.

Question: How do you know you’re not one of those people who think they’re saved, but they really aren’t?

Answer: I know in my heart that I am saved.

Question: Wouldn’t someone who thinks they’re saved, but really aren’t saved, say the same thing?

Answer: I suppose so.

Question: Then how do you know you’re really saved?

Answer: I just know.

Question: How do you know?

Answer: I just do.

The whole point of this line of questioning is that, if it is possible to think you’re saved, but not really be saved, **then no one can have eternal security **– no one can know for sure that they are saved – because anyone who thinks they’re saved could actually be one of those who think they are but really aren’t. As you ask these questions, I guarantee you will not be able to keep from smiling as the folks you’re talking to can do nothing but go ‘round and ‘round in a circle of illogic. * (bold mine)

 

[PRmerger]

Prieldedi’s answer is the correct one. The Catholic Church does not condemn anyone to hell. We do not offer assurances of salvation for those who “believe the right thing”; rather we offer the Truth of the gospel message of Christ, and that includes Mary’s Perpetual Virginity. God alone is the Judge of the souls of men. We are but witnesses to his saving power and grace and the Truth of all Apostolic teaching (“Tradition” which is embodied in oral teaching and scripture), and all we can do is share that Truth with you. There is no minimum for salvation; there is only the whole Truth.

Yeah, avflf. What he said me, pointing my thumb at SonofMonica

And, I have a question for you, avflf. Do you feel the freedom to disagree with any of Christ’s doctrines? For that is what you are doing when you deny the teaching of Mary’s PV.

What the CC teaches is that Christ Himself is telling you “believe in A” and you’re saying, “Well, Lord, I believe in B, C and D but as for A…not so much.” Yikes!!

 

[1beleevr]

prmerger: So, it’s posible that Matthew 7:21-22 ia talking about those kind of people! do you believe that God gives us “signs” that we are saved? Does the Holy Spirit move in your heart, do you hear the “voice of God?” I have many friends, who say they are Christians, who claim they have never heard God’s voice, or had Him “put someone on their heart!” According to elvisman, we are not really saved, until we are inHeaven; when really, it could be that when we are in Heaven; we are finally safe! Hey, could you turn that around on the apologist?

 

[Prieldedi]

prieldedi:Let me se if I can succintly break down your post#866First I see two(2) key words that catch my eye:willfull and rebellious. Willful disobedience, is of course, knowing it is wrong, and doing it anyway; while rebellion may be interpreted any number of ways. Some times we rebel, because we don’t agree with something, or we feel oppressed. Personally, when it comes to Christians, if I hear that someone has “lost” their salvation(jury’s still out on that one), or is WILLFULLY committing sin, it makes me wonder about their salvationI know myself that Jesus has removed many of the desires I used to have, for doing things that are against God’s will. I’m not perfect by any means; as are all Christians, but God is constantly shaping me(Philippians 1:6). Until I encountered catholics, I had only heard of Mary’s virginity prior to Jesus’s birth. And as for that verse,Matthew 7:21-22, could it be possible that He is talking about “faux” Christians, you know the kind, going through the motions, hoping to get to Heaven, but become transparent under the light of the Truth. We know the Truth; and someday, we will fully know Him and He will set us free:thumbsup:You are correct, we do not know what is in men’s hearts, just as we cannot understand the depth of God’s understanding. Not sure about last minute loss of salvation, for one who, because he/she is human, will be tempted to sin, but knows he is forgiven. The person who does fall away, and willfully sins, may never have been truly saved in the first place:thumbsup:

On your last comments: one is not necessarily saved in the first place, it can happen also in the “last”. The parable of the laborers in the vineyard (Matthew 20:1-16) refers to those that are saved, either by having lived a saintly live, or by repenting “at the last working hour”. After all, Jesus Himself also said that “I did not come to call the righteous but sinners” (Matthew 9:13), and “I have come to call to repentance; I call sinners, not the righteous” (Luke 5,32). If a sinner repents in his last hour he will be saved, just as one of the criminals hanging with Him did: Luke 23:42-43, «And he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.” Jesus replied, “Truly, you will be with me today in paradise.”»

In God’s matters rebellion is not an option, besides, God does not oppress anyone. The whole Chapter of Numbers 16 describes how God deals with those who are rebellious. It tells us about Korah’s rebellion against Moses. (I’m not saying you are Korah, but some Christians re-lived that story back in the 1500’s and we know the consequences.)

Philippians 2:12, «Therefore, my dearest friends, as you always obeyed me while I was with you, even more now that I am far from you, continue working out your salvation “with fear and trembling”.»

Matthew 19:17, “… If you want to enter eternal life, keep the commandments.”

This is at the end of the unmerciful servant parable: Matthew 18:35, «Jesus added, “So will my heavenly Father do with you to be punished] unless each of you sincerely forgive your brother or sister.”»

There is no guarantee for salvation.

God bless you