Jesus4Sharia

[Adonia]

Ye shall know them by their fruits … Matthew 7:16

I very much doubt that Christians would be able to tell what are the things about Sharia law which contradicts the things that are taught in their own Bible.

For instance, if Christians say that the Church forbids usury, then why should they oppose establishing a Sharia-based economic system which actually forbids usury?

Instead, many Christians would prefer to continue using a usury-based economic system which has brought the whole world to the brink of financial meltdown.

And the same goes for the other things about Sharia law.

If Christians are completely honest about it, they will quickly realize that there is virtually nothing about Sharia law which contradicts the things that are taught in their own scriptures.

Why then do Christians oppose it?

The answer is not difficult to figure out → Pride and prejudice.

As a Christian and an American citizen, I would not want to live under any religious theocracy - Muslim, Christian, or otherwise. I’ll take my capitalistic constitutional republic anytime. This is the system that has shown time and time again to give it’s citizens more wealth and liberty than any others on this earth.

 

[staffsgt7]

Killing apostates, adulterers and homosexuals must open up some jobs

What Hamba isn’t mentioning is countries like Saudi Arabia where most of the young people get degrees in some sort of Islamic Study field, there isn’t much that it trains them for except to be Jihadists. Wonder why so many Jihadists come from Saudi Arabia? Or how about clerics they export to our Western Shores and other countries drenched in the radical wahabbi Islam? Islam doesn’t create jobs, it creates mind numbing robots that can recite the Koran usually in a language not of their own.

They know tribes, donkeys who pull the plow, etc. They have an abyssmal record of any scientific feats as we see in the number of Nobel prizes they receive. So much for all that ‘koranic’ science they like to toot their horns about.

Their societies are run by Jihadists who like the violence way too often but have grown up and realize they don’t want to blow themselves up anymore but are more than willing to have their schools filled with children learning the ways of Jihad. And we shouldn’t be surprised with this because Jihad is a requirement of all Muslims with the violent kind taught as the most holy. Yep, from their Sharia laws I get that!

Too many of their countries don’t allow girls to go to school and so they sit at home breeding. Their countries are on the bottom of the human rights disaster list, and economically viable lists. In the rich Islamic countries, all it will take is for the oil to run out and they will return to the ‘way of the dirt’ again. The Saudis are notorious for their lack of pursuing an education in anything useful such as would prepare them for a job when they graduate.

 

[staffsgt7]

I need to mention some other things that Hamba seems to forget. The Western countries are the most generous to others who are poor. Unlike Islamic countries who don’t even help other poor Islamic countries (as we see in Afghanistan, and Iraq when Saddam was in control, and in some countries of Africa), they are FORBIDDEN to give charity to non-Muslims. that is per sharia laws.

Some of the most abused people on this earth are their own Muslim women. In some areas they are not even allowed to go to school and usually they are the same areas where they are forbidden to go to male doctors.

I could show pages of abused Muslim women from getting the unnecessary clitoral circumscions, to the after affects of having acid thrown at them or being burned in honor killings where the there is no justice - or medical care - that will be given to them, but I won’t. I suppose that is where their burkhas hide a lot. Abuse of Muslim women is greater than they thought, article here. There are no safe houses, or justice, for women in Muslim lands or even in areas in our countries if they are trapped in a community of mostly Muslims.

http://ts3.mm.bing.net/images/thumbnail.aspx?q=1382906267070&id=423bd0dc53dc2deeeaa745e950fe98a6&url=http%3A%2F%2Fbotlbrush.com%2Fblog%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2008%2F12%2Fabuse1.jpg http://www.bbc.co.uk/legacies/immig_emig/england/stoke_staffs/img/body_slave.jpg

Sudanese slaves await redemption in Madhol, Sudan, in December 1997. An Arab trader sold 132 former slaves, women and children, for $13,200 (in Sudanese money) to a member of Christian Solidarity International. (AP Photo)
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

Child pediphilia/brides
http://ts2.mm.bing.net/images/thumbnail.aspx?q=1320700487457&id=643461ef387b87aa943082c4ef42cb80&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.faithfreedom.org%2FGallery%2Fchild_bride.jpg

Let us not forget Hamas, Hezbollah, and so many others taking children as soldiers, or hiding behind them after they attack and if they children die they are used as propaganda and paraded around for awhile.
http://ts4.mm.bing.net/images/thumbnail.aspx?q=1464169739895&id=fb6d1c16d0880112f43d322c8b589433&url=http%3A%2F%2Fecx.images-amazon.com%2Fimages%2FI%2F51PE9VT6GNL.SL160_OU01_SS100.jpg

This one has always gotten to me, Iran used to give children a green key and they were told it was the key to their heaven. They were then sent out to mine sweep areas (Iraq/Iran war).

Sudan, about a million enslaved.
Mauritania-600,000 or 8% of population
Niger- 800,000 or 8% of population
Chad, Nigeria- children being sold to Arab Muslims

And all of this is ok in Sharia laws. I can go on and on with this sort of human rights abuses in Islam. Suggesting that Sharia laws are good, or moral, or right is pure bull pie.

 

[KathleenGee]

Hadi, Hamba…

What happens to the Muslim man who has ‘it all’ already on Planet Earth with the multiple virgins…

I mean, they already have many wives here on earth…they wouldn’t take anyone unless they were virgins…so there are many Muslim men with 4 virgin wives today, now…so when they die, what happens? Do they get 68 more virgins or what…I mean, what is the difference in a numbers game???

 

[hamba2han]

As a Christian and an American citizen, I would not want to live under any religious theocracy - Muslim, Christian, or otherwise. I’ll take my capitalistic constitutional republic anytime. This is the system that has shown time and time again to give it’s citizens more wealth and liberty than any others on this earth.

You have a fear of losing your “freedom” due to a preconceived notion about the “evil” of allowing religious intrusion into worldly matters such as the accumulation of wealth.

Actually, this is understandable and Christians are not alone in having this attitude, many Muslims too fear losing their wealth if Sharia rules were to be implemented in the economy.

It all boils down to a lack of faith in using divine laws to tackle and solve human problems, does it not?

I do not blame non-Muslims too much for not wanting Sharia laws, I would instead blame the entire Muslim world for allowing themselves to be brainwashed by the powers that be, out of the weakness of their own individual faith, into believing that Sharia law is no longer suitable and applicable to be used in today’s world.

I should know this because I too was one of these “moderate and progressive Muslims” not too many years ago.

All praise to Allah for He has indeed guided me to see the error of my ways.

 

[Sam_777]

many Muslims too fear losing their wealth if Sharia rules were to be implemented in the economy.

It all boils down to a lack of faith in using divine laws to tackle and solve human problems

http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon14.gif well said hamba…

I do not blame non-Muslims too much for not wanting Sharia laws, I would instead blame the entire Muslim world for allowing themselves to be brainwashed by the powers that be, out of the weakness of their own individual faith, into believing that Sharia law is no longer suitable and applicable to be used in today’s world.

I indeed find that Sharia law is more suitable for today’s time than the secular law, at least it protects the children till they become mature enough to realize the right from wrong, but that doesn’t put Islam to be the direct way of salvation…

All praise to Allah for He has indeed guided me to see the error of my ways.

And may God show you His true path…

 

[KathleenGee]

Did you read our posts???

 

[Kaninchen]

All praise to Allah for He has indeed guided me to see the error of my ways.

So, you’ve decided to give up all the evils of living amongst the decadent lifestyle of the West for some village in Pakistan (or wherever) or are you like all those Western communists who used to tell us all about the wonders of a Peoples’ Republic but, while they were more than willing to ‘talk the talk’, were never willing to ‘walk the walk’ of going and actually living in one - might have been that the complications of giving up their houses, cars, colour televisions, supermarket shopping and so on were a little too difficult.

 

[Kaninchen]

I’ve known a few!

 

[KathleenGee]

Muslims have lived very different lives from us…you don’t read our posts…

It is best to keep Sharia for Muslims…you don’t read our church teachings as I directed you to…

I don’t want to live in a tent and listen to my husband’s new wife next to me separated by a cloth.

I don’t want to chant with my bottom up in the air…as I find that impure and vulgar.

Nobody possess anything in the Catholic Church. All the works you see were donated by thinkers, philosophers, artists, musicians…for the glory of Christ’s church. Nobody wants to possess churches as personal property. But the beauty and art and library and our history, our teachings…cannot be equaled anywhere.

I think the Muslims should learn what the Catholic faith is, who Christ really is, and then they would experience great joy like many former Muslims do when they become Christian and enjoy true peace and good relationships with other people, and see the need to always seek education.

 

[Kaninchen]

Well, I have nothing against Sharia Courts for Muslims on the same basis as Beth Din Courts - it’s really an ‘agreed arbitration system’ under the general laws of the UK - it’s not an opt-out from the laws of the UK.

All this ‘Sharia for everybody’ stuff is just bluster - unfortunately for Muslims in the UK it feeds into ultra-rightist paranoia, which is, probably, what the situational logic of Islamic radicals intends anyway - ie to conjure up ‘revolutionary masses’ as a reaction to fascist attacks on ordinary Muslims-in-the-street. Islamic radicals and the BNP are made for one another - ‘extremists in mutual wargasm’.

It’s interesting, by the way, that they’re having to ‘import’ their paranoia from Western paranoia industries, nowadays (Alex Jones and Prison Planet, for heaven’s sake). What is wrong with Islam that it can’t manufacture enough of its own?

 

[hamba2han]

OK folks, now that we have learned a bit about how Sharia law can be a practical and viable alternative system to solve the economic crisis we are facing today, I think it is appropriate that we examine another possible alternative system that is being proposed i.e. a man-made one called the Venus Project.

For those who may be unfamiliar with this Venus Project which is a secular man-made alternative to the New World Order, I suggest that you take a look at their website.

I can tell you why I believe this Venus Project is totally unworkable right from the start but I would like to first get the views of others here on what they think of it.

 

[GraceDK]

Because Islam is an island… its made 600 years later by a false prophet who understood neither the concepts of atonement nor of covenant which are totally BASIC to understanding Judeo-Christian relationship with God.

You are right that Sharia and Old Testament law are not far apart at face value. However, Christianity is clear: The Old Testament law was imperfect law and not the final will of God. Christ is the GOOD and HOLY will of God. The Image of God in the world.
You call personified barbarity “the final seal”… The Lord have mercy on you.

Islam degraded the whole salvation plan of God when it made Muhammad and his new law into the end and fulfiillment of it all.

Oh the blindness and ignorance of the stubborn Muslim. Of course… the devil likes to ape God… also, the devil is against *Israel, *the chosen people and against the woman.

• From these two, the Scripture is clear, was the Messiah to come. So of course Islam would involve contempt for both …

I encourage you to study the Bible from one end to the other, to get the full picture.( Forget the unhistorical and irrational nonsense that the Bible has been corrupted), and understand that Muhammad and his revelation was a backwardness of everything, spurning the Salvific Cross-death of Christ, the atonement, which was necessary for YOUR salvation.

Peace, blessing and light of understanding to you and your house.

I’d like to hear any Muslim or non-muslim response to my post, which might have been overlooked on page 4.
Peace be with you all and blessed Advent.

Grace.

The Lord is coming. Halleluja

 

[hamba2han]

I’d like to hear any Muslim or non-muslim response to my post, which might have been overlooked on page 4.
Peace be with you all and blessed Advent.

Grace.

The Lord is coming. Halleluja

Your whole argument starts with the premise that Muhammad (pbuh) is a false prophet… which of course I totally disagree with.

Since Jesus (pbuh) says in the Bible that new prophets should be judged by the “fruits” that they bring, then why isn’t Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) being judged by the “fruits” that he brought, which are really no different than the “fruits” that are found in the Old Testament?

The only way to have a meaningful discussion about these “fruits” is to examine them objectively… and saying that the Old Testament laws were imperfect without providing any Biblical evidence whatsoever that they were imperfect, is really not a good way at all of having an objective examination of these laws.

 

[KathleenGee]

The Muslims here did not address all the issues we have with Islam, and the real photos of those suffering in Africa and elsewhere brought no particular comment.

They complain of usury and the materialism. but aren’t these complaints a form of jealousy because Sharia did not bring prosperity but oil? And who showed you the oil was worth anything???

The degradation of the human person, the shutting down of the person’s mind that seeks truth, the human spirit that desires to express beauty cannot do so in Sharia,

to work hard but deny someone to reap the fruits of one’s labor…this is what you are implying…

of a god who has no forgiveness and cannot redeem a broken or criminal person,

A totalitarian political force that wears the mask of religion…

That reduces man to a vicious, angry, incontinent, envious and jealous, deceitful and subsequently unstable human being with no less,

a false sense of superiority over the rest of mankind because your women dress from head to toe with oppressive blackcloth looking like they come out of some modern horror show, and you call that modesty.

Muslims come to America where they admit they are treated well and reap the benefits of living in a ‘free’ society, but use Third Jihad on us, sue and impose their ways and religion on us…and who supports and defends them? The secular atheists who seek to remove Judeo Christianity values from our land.

These points being made are terrible.

What is so terribly frightening about Islam is that all these crimes to humanity are not terrible to you.

These Muslim crimes against humanity – justified by Sharia – are far far worse than the sin of usury!!..

Some call those who justify these crimes as ‘Mohammed’s Monsters’.

 

[KathleenGee]

You cannot impose your type of religion and behavior and culture on the rest of the world without causing alot of reaction.

I did not know much about the Islam world until 9/11. I started reading then. I started to connect the dots from wars and skirmishes to each other…one site claimed 90% of the wars in the world during a certain time had been started by Islam. I tried to find that source and will do so again.

I saw the treatment of women and criminals, using brainwashing to teach the Koran and the indifference to everyone else.

Really, after seeing militant Islam worse than communism…Pope Benedict attempted to address the violence of Islam and was almost set up by a fatwa. And the secular media stepped in and played certain parts out of context over and over…and the rage began…

And I wished I had never known about Islam. That is what its history and treatment of others made me feel like, and its taking over the seat of Israel and the origins of Christianity…and when it comes in, it entrenches and never leaves…

I wish I never knew of Islam…take it and keep it back in your world.

 

[planten]

It is not necessary to have Sharia laws in England and Germany.Of course many Muslims are living in thos ecountries and they would like to live under the laws of their Sharia. But what happens if they would like to extend those laws to all the population of those countries?? That would be bad.

It is not binding upon Muslims to follow their Sharia in foreign countries.

Even special laws for the Muslims could be impossible. They have freedom to pray and preach. That is good enough. The Muslims should be thankful. And they should use that freedom of religion in a good way. Not in a bad way of internal fighting and capturing the leadership (Imaamat) in the mosques. The best they can do is to live honestly in foreign countries. Make progress, add to the comfort of the people of the country.

Perhaps they feel some sin by giving taking interest in bank money. That is none of their business. They are not committing any sin. If there is no interest free institution in the country then they have no choice, therefore no sin.

They better not marry more than one wife. There is no need. They want Muslim marriage laws. Nobody is stopping them to follow their own laws. They can get married in a Muslim way, in the mosque. They can make use of divorce too when needed according to the laws of the country.

The problem is that no country in the world is at present applying the Sharia laws. If some one is given lashes for adultry, that is not the most essential islamic law. The Muslims should protect their own people away from bad things by their own teachings and good control. They should not look to the laws and by-laws and police support to keep control over their own people.

I am sorry I have not been able to present the case in a good way. So I will need some guide lines why the Muslims need to have their own laws in western countries.Let me see some useful important point then the matter can be discussed in a better way. Presently, The Muslims are to put up a good example of good peaceful living. They can do that easily. There is no need to broadcast at full volume, the call to prayers from the minarates. That is not Islam at all.

More important is that all Muslims should organise and unite on one principle i.e. to be law abiding, to shun all evil and to resist the evil doers, i.e. to unite against all forms of terrorism. They should come out openly against terrorists. That will be good for them, not to harbor any terrorist or criminal amongst them. The Muslims are very late in speaking out against the bad activities of the terrorists. There is no clear united call against bad elements.

 

[Kaninchen]

Presently, The Muslims are to put up a good example of good peaceful living. They can do that easily.

Which is what most of them are doing, isn’t it? Hard working people trying to make a living for themselves and their families.

 

[planten]

Which is what most of them are doing, isn’t it? Hard working people trying to make a living for themselves and their families.

Yes True. The criminals and disturbed minds are few. The Muslims can easily learn some lessons from the Jews too, how they are living or regulating their affairs and practicing their faiths.

 

[Jay53]

Still waiting for answers to these questions:

Perhaps you can give us an example of a Muslim country that has implemented a Sharia-based economy that illustrates how the country is thriving and there are no poor people oppressed by the government running this economy.

Perhaps you can also give us some of the specific laws (and how they would be implemented) that you would see enacted in this Sharia based economy that would benefit the people.

Is it possible to have a Sharia based economy without implementing the rest of Sharia, including, but not limited to: a) killing apostates to Islam b) killing adulterers c) cutting off the limbs of criminals d) punishing people who speak against Muhammad and/or Islam e) punishing people for drinking alcohol f) punishing women for going out in public “uncovered” (i.e. without hijab, niquab, burqa etc) g) punishing women for going out without a male relative etc etc. etc.