Jewish Book: How to Read the Bible

[qui_est_ce]

I don’t understand your logic.

Ok.

When and from where did Christians come?

 

[irishpatrick]

And the evidence for this narrative is where?

I was beaten to my reply. Start with the catacombs and look at early pre-NT documents.

 

[Kaninchen]

Have you ever been to the Catacombs in Rome?

Why?

 

[Kaninchen]

I was beaten to my reply. Start with the catacombs and look at early pre-NT documents.

The ones that were not thought worthy of incorporation into the NT?

 

[qui_est_ce]

Why?

For the same reason you subscribed to CAF.

 

[Kaninchen]

When and from where did Christians come?

The origins were, obviously I’d say, from a Jewish sect.

I think you’re mistaking my responses as being along the lines of ‘there was no Jesus’ or ‘there were no Jews that followed him’.

That’s not what I’m saying, it’s the ‘thousands and thousands’ that I’m questioning. The point is that we don’t know, it’s all conjecture.

 

[Kaninchen]

For the same reason you subscribed to CAF.

Why do you think I subscribed?

 

[Cat_Herder]

And the ‘evidence’ for that is in the NT.

And in other Christian writings, but also those of Roman and Jewish historians.

But the blood of the martyrs which drowned Rome is far and away the best evidence. That is followed closely by the prophets and the Eucharistic miracles.

 

[qui_est_ce]

While they treated everybody else like kings?

Why not read up a bit on Jewish history during the Roman occupation.

This is a red herring. I never denied what happened to the Jews during the Roman Occupation.

 

[Kaninchen]

This is a red herring. I never denied what happened to the Jews during the Roman Occupation.

No, the red herring would be to suggest that early followers of Jesus had it rougher.

 

[qui_est_ce]

Why do you think I subscribed?

Because it’s there!

 

[Kaninchen]

And in other Christian writings, but also those of Roman and Jewish historians.

Which say words to the effect of ‘there are guys who say . . .’

But the blood of the martyrs which drowned Rome is far and away the best evidence.

Hm.

 

[Cat_Herder]

No, the red herring would be to suggest that early followers of Jesus had it rougher.

The People of God suffered together, although it was the Christian blood which took down the pagan Empire.

 

[qui_est_ce]

No, the red herring would be to suggest that early followers of Jesus had it rougher.

They did???

 

[tomarin]

And so the kabuki dance continues …

 

[Kaninchen]

Because it’s there!

You mean in a kind of ultimate test of Christian apologetics sense?

Actually, I was interested in the consequences of what people believe. After a decade and a half of religious message boards, what people believe isn’t so interesting as the consequences.

One of the reasons I’ve very rarely been involved in the kind of wrangling in this thread, by the way.

 

[Kaninchen]

And so the kabuki dance continues …

“Oh, No it doesn’t!”/“Oh, Yes it does!”

 

[Cat_Herder]

Which say words to the effect of ‘there are guys who say . . .’

There are also generations of prophets, scribes and scholars who say that the Lord humiliated Pharaoh and lead Israel out of Egypt. I believe them.

And I believe the Lord to be the same One who leads me out of my personal Egypt.

Hm.

n.b. I did a late edit re the prophets and Eucharistic miracles.

 

[tomarin]

Unless you were a Jew or a Christian… I wouldn’t call crucifixion a “civilized” form of punishment.

This is just a minor quibble, but if you think the Romans were barbarians then you must be using a different definition of barbarian than Webster’s New Collegiate Dictionary, which defines it as “lacking refinement, learning, or artistic or literary culture.” The Romans were the great civilization of their era against which all others were measured; if they were barbarians then nobody was civilized back then.

 

[Cat_Herder]

This is just a minor quibble, but if you think the Romans were barbarians then you must be using a different definition of barbarian than Webster’s New Collegiate Dictionary, which defines it as “lacking refinement, learning, or artistic or literary culture.” The Romans were the great civilization of their era against which all others were measured; if they were barbarians then nobody was civilized back then.

They were greater as a republic and as the Byzantine Empire than they were between Caesar and Constantine. It was after Caesar’s assassination that the emperors started using the army as a political tool. Subjugating the Jews and killing the Christians was part of this.