Jewish people, the Holocaust, and Christmas

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jeannetherese said:
Actually, the Christmas celebration continues.
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Of course it does.

On the other hand, the premise of the thread (a Jewish person annoyed by Christmas) isn’t something that this Jewish person concerns herself about.

Meanwhile, the fact that this period every year (for weeks before, during and immediately after) is a kind of orgy of socially enforced spending for a high proportion of the population is something that I do find annoying. If I were Christian, I’d find it even more annoying.
 
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It is interesting, to me, to see people who don’t seem to consider themselves personally invested in Christianity, wanting to engage in Christmas gift giving rituals.
The spending can seem a bit much, but then I think about the many distractions which people use to try to fill the "G-d sized hole in their restless hearts and wonder if this might be part of that. Or, perhaps, in a world where individualism is highly prized and family and community are fragile, it might speak to that concern as well. Perhaps creating or reinforcing connection through gift giving.
And, of course, markets have their own interests in encouraging consumption.
That said, I hope that all who become involved in Christmas celebrations, for whatever reason, find the peace that surpasses understanding.
 
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Gift giving is fun. I don’t find it at all surprising that non-Christians do this at Christmas time.
 
Jesus started it! The gifts of gold frankincense and Myrrh offered at his birth were all high dollar items. We’re just mimicking that! :hugs:
 
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Thank you! Talk about being dependent on spell checker! Ha! Failed me big time…
 
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I’m glad you have appreciated the interactions. Some of the posters here have a really vast knowledge of Judaism and recognize that when looked into deeply, it’s more obvious of Catholisisms roots in Judaism. While I’m not longer Jewish, I grew up deeply involved in it and enjoyed going to Mass and seeing the traces of a synagogue service in that Mass.

There have been one or two posters, mostly banned, that have had issues with Jews…often beyond their religion. That’s ok. I didn’t need to defend anything as Catholics took up the cross and did it for me! Even I have some issues with Judaism. But, to be defended honestly and with zeal was a pleasant experience. Hats off to all that have!

Beyond religion, we are all human and often have more in common than not and that’s always a joy to discover. ❤️
 
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Who were you previously? (I doubt you’ll be banned for it at this point but PM me if you’d prefer…or ignore! That’s ok, too!)

I do hope I wasn’t insulting or rude! I enjoy hearing about others experiences in their faith. I used to identify as Jewish agnostic so folks would understand my background but found it confused more than helped. I left Judaism in my mid 20’s…almost 45 years ago. In some ways, you never leave the culture and world view of your youth…some things just hang on like toilet paper on your shoe! 😂😂:hugs:

Oh, and I’ve enjoyed @meltzerboy2 as well. He’s been delightful to interact with!
 
reggieM1 said:
Jewish - you argued in that way -
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Yes, I’m sure I have! My family is Jewish and I grew up in it. I’m sure I have passionately argued about anything that I feel is being unfairly represented, including atheism. We all do. I understand not letting the cat out of the bag. It’s fine by me. May all the best come to you as well!
 
reggieM1 said:
Mr. Jharek? Well, perhaps I will say that I’m sure that in “real life” I’d find it much easier to understand and relate to you. I’m sure there’s some background story that would explain things. If not on this earth, I hope we will meet in the blessed eternity.
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Perhaps I’ve misunderstood your post, but it sounds like you think that @(name removed by moderator) is Jewish. I don’t like to speak for other people, but, as you didn’t tag him in your post, I believe he is an Irish Catholic, possibly lapsed, not Jewish.

@(name removed by moderator), I believe you have said that a branch of your wife’s family are Jewish? I have to admit that it took me a while to work out that Carnelian is a stone, not an Armenian surname! For what it’s worth, I have enjoyed many of our discussions on here. I think there are topics on which we would never agree because you often seem to approach them from a perspective of Irish or Russian nationalism combined with animosity towards Britain.
 
EmilyAlexandra said:
animosity towards Britain
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Jharek can speak for himself, but just in case he is still recovering from the festivities can I say I think his animosity is focussed on Britain’s imperial adventures — which is not surprising for an Irish nationalist, and by no means confined to Irish nationalists. Of course he’s a British citizen, too, and is quite capable of defending British institutions and culture from the scorn of the cousins across the Pond.
 
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There have been Jewish posters here who have been banned, of course, I think particularly of Valke2 and chosen_people (who used to do all the ‘heavy lifting’ on the subject of Isreal) but others came and went.

I’ve often wondered why I’ve lasted so long - perhaps a tendency to use the ‘ignore’ function on anybody likely to be very annoying? 🙃
 
You’re short and sharp. Those of us who are more verbose are in more danger of the axeman. Amidst a tangle of subsidiary clauses comes the screech of the tumbril.
 
PickyPicky said:
You’re short and sharp.
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I used to be more discursive (which might explain how I got suspended a few times 😆).

Over the years, I suppose I have developed different ways of dealing with arguments and people - move in, get the message across, move out.
 
Pattylt said:
Jews don’t have anything to do with Christmas and secular Jews that do celebrate it in varying degrees. One thing to remember is that Judaism is a religion of practice, not belief. I
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Metzerboy has also on another thread pointed out that all Jews are viewed the same as in Judaism, so an orthodox and a nonpracticing agnostic would be the same.

I struggle to understand why it is a religion of practice, not belief. So is it about the here and now yet, however, they still wait for a Messiah?

I have a friend who married and converted to the Jewish faith and now has two children. I do not know if this was a requirement or just something she thought would resolve conflict.

It is interesting that you said in an orthodox community, people knew each other’s business . That is not just a orthodox thing.

There is so much to learn.
 
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That is definitely English or British . as in the USA, we would watch older movies like “It’s a Wonderful Lfe” or movies such as The Grinch or Charlie Brown Christmas. around this time of year.
 
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It reminds just how diverse each nation can be .(We no longer watch Ebenezer Scrooge which my parents would have required watching).

I remember watching the beginning of the Olympics when they were held in the UK and it was so British/UK which was not a bad thing as it showed many aspects that I had forgotten.

I was used to seeing a more generic opening ceremony but apparently the Olympics committee asked each country to define it more to their nation.
 
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gam197 said:
I struggle to understand why it is a religion of practice, not belief. So is it about the here and now yet, however, they still wait for a Messiah?
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Remember that the Christian definition of Messiah is vastly different than the Jewish concept. To Jews, the Messiah isn’t divine in any way. He’s basically a righteous man that unites the people and brings Israel into a faithful and just society…in the here and now. He’ll show how to rule justly. Many Jews don’t even hope for a Messiah or, better to say, they aren’t pinning any big hopes on one…if he comes, he comes. Some believe that there is a possible messiah born in every generation that just never rises up to rule. In none of the cases is the messiah involved in salvation of souls or obtaining heaven. The early Christians had to work very hard to redefine messiah and Jesus to the Jews and this explains much of the failure to convert the Jews. Jesus isn’t who they were looking for, he was about the opposite.
 
Pattylt said:
Remember that the Christian definition of Messiah is vastly different than the Jewish concept. To Jews, the Messiah isn’t divine in any way. He’s basically a righteous man that unites the people and brings Israel into a faithful and just society…in the here and now. He’ll show how to rule justly. Many Jews don’t even hope for a Messiah or, better to say, they aren’t pinning any big hopes on one…if he comes, he comes. Some believe that there is a possible messiah born in every generation that just never rises up to rule. In none of the cases is the messiah involved in salvation of souls or obtaining heaven. The early Christians had to work very hard to redefine messiah and Jesus to the Jews and this explains much of the failure to convert the Jews. Jesus isn’t who they were looking for, he was about the opposite.
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Thank you, that does explain a lot. Does Judaism believe in an end time or is that a Christian concept?

Reading a version on line but not sure how accurate it is.

https://www.aish.com/atr/End_of_Days.html
 
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