Jews and Muslims:who do you say Jesus is?

[Mark77]

I was asked a straight question and answered it.

Meanwhile, you want to ‘prove’ Jesus to me, I’m telling you that it’s a complete waste of both our times, just as it has been when many before you tried the same thing.

**i can’t prove anything to you. Only God can prove the Truth!

What if?

What if you are wrong?

What if Jesus is the Messiah?

Ouch!!!

i don’t want to be there with you at my death saying to Jesus Christ, our Jewish Lord & Savior, “Intellectually, You don’t exist!”**

**it is incredibly frustrating & annoying to try to defend the Perfect Jews, Jesus & Mary, the Perfection of Judaism, to those who sadly, ignorantly & falsely claim to be “Jews”.

i can understand misguided Muslims, or even secular fools, but a Jew???
**
Sancta Maria, Mater Dei, Ora Pro Nobis Peccatoribus!

mark

 

[kingal86]

I find it funny how everyone is surprised that Jews don’t think of Jesus as anything special. Think about, he turned their way of life on its head. Without Jesus I assume that all (or at least most) Christians would be Jews…

Without Jesus and Christianity (and assuming no Islam too), wouldn’t the Europe and the rest of what is now “the West” have a completely different, unimaginable religious, cultural etc. background not based on Abrahamic monotheism (unless there was a different form of divine revelation founding such a faith)?

Therefore–baring proselytising–there would only be a very small number of Jews–who without Christianity probably wouldn’t be seen as special or significant (except perhaps for being the only faith to believe in one god), and the majority of the population of the West would probably see the Tenakh as obscure myths from an obscure Middle Eastern religious sect, and presumably not many people would know about Adam & Eve etc., and the Holy Land would just be like any other part of the world.

So most of those now Christians in this scenario would presumably be whatever the prevailing religion/ideology was.

 

[Wesley7]

Who do you say Jesus is?

We echo St.Peter’s confession in the New Testament ‘Thou art the Christ, Son of the Living God’ . .

 

[kingal86]

**i can’t prove anything to you. Only God can prove the Truth!

What if?

What if you are wrong?
**
What if Jesus is the Messiah?

Ouch!!!

It could just as easily be asked what if Christians are wrong about Muhammad? Or what if all of us (except the Mormons) are wrong about Joseph Smith? I imagine to Jews the question about Jesus sounds similar.

 

[KathleenGee]

Mark A,

Have you ever read Roy Shoeman’s book, ‘Salvation is from the Jews’? It will answer your concern.

I don’t worry about Kanichen.

 

[aball1035]

The reason I posted this was because I had a Jewish friend who said that Jesus was a prophet of God. She said that’s what they taught everybody at temple. And I had always thought they viewed him as just a normal man. I thought Muslims think he’s a prophet, not Jews. So I was/am thoroughly confuzed on why she said that.

 

[bosnian_muslim]

The reason I posted this was because I had a Jewish friend who said that Jesus was a prophet of God. She said that’s what they taught everybody at temple. And I had always thought they viewed him as just a normal man. I thought Muslims think he’s a prophet, not Jews. So I was/am thoroughly confuzed on why she said that.

first time to hear such a thing

 

[momor]

first time to hear such a thing

I wonder why Muslims believe Jesus was a prophet. He would have to be a pretty misguided one if you accept what is written about the message He preached regarding He and the Father in heaven being One.

 

[kingal86]

I wonder why Muslims believe Jesus was a prophet. He would have to be a pretty misguided one if you accept what is written about the message He preached regarding He and the Father in heaven being One.

Muslims don’t accept that verse (since they see the Trinity and doctrine of the Incarnation as violating monotheism), they believe the original Gospel of Jesus, the Torah etc. were altered over the years (I’m not sure if they mean deliberately or just transcribing errors, translation, Chinese whispers etc.) by Christians and Jews.

 

[momor]

Muslims don’t accept that verse (since they see the Trinity and doctrine of the Incarnation as violating monotheism), they believe the original Gospel of Jesus, the Torah etc. were altered over the years (I’m not sure if they mean deliberately or just transcribing errors, translation, Chinese whispers etc.) by Christians and Jews.

Thanks for the explanation. So what IS the takeaway message of Jesus that Muslims believe makes Him a prophet?

 

[jakasaki]

momor;6714854Thanks for the explanation.

So what IS the takeaway message of Jesus that Muslims believe makes Him a prophet?

Behold! Allah said: "O jesus! I will take thee and raise thee to Myself and clear thee (of the falsehoods) of those who blaspheme; I will make those who follow thee superior to those who reject faith, to the Day of Resurrection: Then shall ye all return unto me, and I will judge between you of the matters wherein ye dispute.
( سورة آل عمران , Aal-e-Imran, Chapter #3, Verse #55)

O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Christ jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) an apostle of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His apostles. Say not “Trinity” : desist: it will be better for you: for Allah is one Allah. Glory be to Him: (far exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs.
( سورة النساء , An-Nisa, Chapter #4, Verse #171)

searchtruth.com ← islamic koran & hadith internet link

There are more passages…

 

[kingal86]

What do Muslims believe Jesus’ purpose was as Allah’s prophet, since they don’t believe in the Incarnation or Resurrection?

 

[FaithJoy]

Actually, correct me if I’m wrong. I think Muslims DO believe Jesus ascended into heaven,Mohammad did NOT. BUT, Muhammad is more important to them and STILL in a grave. Hard to understand that , but.

 

[Ali_Khan]

What do Muslims believe Jesus’ purpose was as Allah’s prophet, since they don’t believe in the Incarnation or Resurrection?

To warn the Children of Israel of Allah’s coming judgment, to affirm the same truth that Abraham and Moses spoke (belief in one God), to foretell the coming of Muhammad.

According to Ibn Kathir:

Jesus was sent to ‘reform’ Judaism at that time - which was heavily corrupted. There are accounts of money-lending and commercial activities taking place in the Temple, which Jesus was opposed to and tried to stop. Jesus was also there to stop the priests from exploiting their power, which they were doing at that time.
Jesus was also sent to teach the Children of Israel the ‘true’ meaning and significance of the Sabbath, which the Jews of the time had forgotten and instead practiced it blindly without it’s true spiritual meaning.
Jesus was a ‘sign’ from God - a man who was born without a father, who could do miraculous things, and who stood up for the truth and tried to reform what needed to be reformed.
The Jews rejecting Jesus as their Messiah and Prophet signed their fate as having lost the title of the ‘Chosen People’ and as having the broken their Covenant with Allah.

Most importantly, Muslims believe that Jesus was the ‘Messiah’. Messiah meaning, ‘Anointed One’.
(Interestingly, in the Hadith, Muhammad sees Jesus, along with the Anti-Christ in a dream. Jesus is described as having his head wet and ‘water’ or ‘liquid’ dripping down from his hair.)
According to Muslim belief, Jesus is supposed to return to Earth at some point in the future to destroy the Anti-Christ, then later stop the Gog and Magog, and usher in an age of peace.

Actually, correct me if I’m wrong. I think Muslims DO believe Jesus ascended into heaven,Mohammad did NOT. BUT, Muhammad is more important to them and STILL in a grave. Hard to understand that , but.

We don’t actually believe that Jesus ascended to Heaven literally. The Quran states that Jesus was raised to Allah. No mention of him being literally being placed in Heaven. I think the correct Islamic belief is to believe he is in ‘occultation’. He’s not dead, but he’s not here on Earth among us either. We don’t know where he is, all we know is that he isn’t dead and will come back at some point in the future.

Muhammad DID ascend to Heaven and even entered the Empyrean (but it was more of a tour thing). It is called the Mi’raj (ascension). One of the core parts of Islamic belief.

 

[Gloria1]

I am not a Muslim but I do know a little about Islam. In Islam, Allah has no son which means Jesus is not a “Son of God”. Also, Allah is One person with One nature which means there is no “trinity” so Jesus is not God. According to Islam, Jesus is just a prophet. Jesus is the same as “Prophet Isa” in the Holy Quran.

 

[famdigy]

I always find it interesting how some Christians are passionately anti-Islam even though Muslims believe in Jesus and revere him. If you look at the three faiths of Christianity, Islam, and Judaism with respect to their beliefs in Jesus, Christians and Jews are at opposite ends of the spectrum while Muslims are in the middle. We neither reject Jesus nor overstate his nature.

 

[momor]

I always find it interesting how some Christians are passionately anti-Islam even though Muslims believe in Jesus and revere him. If you look at the three faiths of Christianity, Islam, and Judaism with respect to their beliefs in Jesus, Christians and Jews are at opposite ends of the spectrum while Muslims are in the middle. We neither reject Jesus nor overstate his nature.

I don’t think it can be said you believe in Jesus if you don’t accept He is the Son of God and the fullness of God’s Word ended with Jesus. We accept all of the Jewish faith up until the time of Christ but we can’t accept Mohammed’s teaching at all.

 

[bosnian_muslim]

I don’t think it can be said you believe in Jesus if you don’t accept He is the Son of God and the fullness of God’s Word ended with Jesus. We accept all of the Jewish faith up until the time of Christ but we can’t accept Mohammed’s teaching at all.

yet muslims and jews are much closer then jews and christians

i have met jews who call you polytheists,and islam is not either too far from calling you that.The trinity thing is all but jewish and islamic

 

[Ali_Khan]

We accept all of the Jewish faith up until the time of Christ but we can’t accept Mohammed’s teaching at all.

The Bosniak makes a good point here:

yet muslims and jews are much closer then jews and christians

i have met jews who call you polytheists,and islam is not either too far from calling you that.The trinity thing is all but jewish and islamic

I’d also like to point out:

1. Islam and Judaism both have a much higher emphasis on ritual and ritual worship than Christians
2. Islam and Judaism both have very similar dietary laws which are quite strict. The Christians have an ‘eat-anything’ attitude. No concept of kashruth (kosher).
3. Muhammad is VERY similar to the OT’s prophets and religious leaders. A righteous king like David.
4. Muslims and Jews both have the concept of a Qiblah - a city which you face while praying.
5. Both religions see the Messiah as a chosen MAN, not God. (But Jews don’t accept Jesus as their Messiah)
6. Many Jews have told me that it’s allowed for them to pray in mosques but NOT in churches, as Christians do not worship the same God as they do.
7. Technically, Muslims are following the 7 Noahide Laws while Christians aren’t because they break the law where it says not to blaspheme God (the idea of trinity is blasphemy to Jews). Hence, technically, Muslims would be considered ‘righteous gentiles’ according to Jews but Christians would not.
8. Islam feels more like a progression of Judaism than Christianity does, to be honest. Matthew’s reasons for Jesus fulfilling the prophecies in Isaiah always seemed a bit ‘forced’ to me.
9. Both religions have similar religious laws, the Halacha and the Shariah.

Momor, I find it hard to believe you can accept all of the Jewish faith, even though it contradicts with Christianity to the point of Jews saying that you guys worship a different God than they do, yet you can still deny Muhammad’s teachings completely when what he said was much more in line with Judaism than Christianity itself.

 

[Ali_Khan]

Ali a couple of points from that list above. As regards point number 1 which group of Christians are you talking of? The argument that Christians do not place emphasis on rituals or ritual worship could be easily undercut if you look at certain Christian groups. It’s impossible to generalise in that fashion I feel.

Most of the Christians I have encountered were either Roman Catholic or various shades of Protestant.
I noticed they did not have the institution of a set number of daily prayers that Islam and Judaism have.
Are you perhaps referring to Eastern Orthodox Christianity?
Some Christian groups do have ritual worship, but I’ve never come across anything as ritualistic as Jewish or (especially) Muslim practices.

Again dietary laws DO play a part in many Christian denominations. I could give you the rules for dietary restrictions while fasting from my wife’s Church if you would like for example.

Do you mean dietary laws that only apply during fasting?
I was referring to dietary laws that a Muslim or Jew has to obey for his or her entire life. Correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t Paul in one of his epistles basically state that you can eat anything, even something sacrificed to a foreign god?