Jews and Muslims:who do you say Jesus is?

[jakasaki]

Thanks Pam, but what I dont understand is why do muslims quote all the hadiths when they have a quran which according to them is a direct word of allah, so why this ibn khatir, or other hadith writers? Did allah reveal the books to them too because the quran was not complete?

Just my thoughts.

I don’t know my dear… I just don’t know… Tis a question for the muslim members…

If I remember correctly… BUT… I could be wrong, this was the guy who looked at the koran and tried to find mohamad mentioned in the Bible & could not find him mentioned in there…, therefore, he concluded that the Bible was corrupted.

Islam is way too much & too confusing for me…

Be well Wwolverine…

 

[bosnian_muslim]

The hadiths are stories and sayings from the prophet,they are there to show us an example to follow.The hadiths can be true or false,and its not fard(a must) to follow the hadiths…but they explain a lot.

So to be short,Koran is the only main source that we have,the hadiths ae there just to help us understand and follow the Koran

 

[bosnian_muslim]

If you want to make “a point” against islam that I as muslim would find worth thinking about then use the Koran,because the hadiths are not part of fundamental islam.There are many made-up hadtihs…im sure there are more false then true hadiths

 

[bosnian_muslim]

Well,allow me, O believer in a book that claims the earth is flat and few thousand years old,but the Koran has made some men of science convert to islam after hearing some of the thing mentioned there

plus,who are we to say whats wrong whats not wrong in history…the past is seen in different ways

 

[jakasaki]

Bukhari is one of the main trustworthy hadith writers for islam… and yes… when mohamad & islam is shown in a bad light from Bukhari, muslims claim a “false hadith”,… however… when it’s peaches & cream… oh well… it it the truth…

 

[jakasaki]

Well,allow me, O believer in a book that claims the earth is flat and few thousand years old,but the Koran has made some men of science convert to islam after hearing some of the thing mentioned there

plus,who are we to say whats wrong whats not wrong in history…the past is seen in different ways

Please don’t do the earth is flat bit…stop with Deedat…

**Because I’ll quote you from the Bible where the states the earth is a SPHERE… **

 

[aicirt]

The Bosniak makes a good point here:

1. Islam and Judaism both have a much higher emphasis on ritual and ritual worship than Christians
2. Islam and Judaism both have very similar dietary laws which are quite strict. The Christians have an ‘eat-anything’ attitude. No concept of kashruth (kosher).
3. Muhammad is VERY similar to the OT’s prophets and religious leaders. A righteous king like David.
4. Muslims and Jews both have the concept of a Qiblah - a city which you face while praying.
5. Both religions see the Messiah as a chosen MAN, not God. (But Jews don’t accept Jesus as their Messiah)
6. Many Jews have told me that it’s allowed for them to pray in mosques but NOT in churches, as Christians do not worship the same God as they do.
7. Technically, Muslims are following the 7 Noahide Laws while Christians aren’t because they break the law where it says not to blaspheme God (the idea of trinity is blasphemy to Jews). Hence, technically, Muslims would be considered ‘righteous gentiles’ according to Jews but Christians would not.
8. Islam feels more like a progression of Judaism than Christianity does, to be honest. Matthew’s reasons for Jesus fulfilling the prophecies in Isaiah always seemed a bit ‘forced’ to me.
9. Both religions have similar religious laws, the Halacha and the Shariah.
10. Need to go to a Catholic Mass and also look at a Catholic calendar for the lists of days of required worship, fasting etc.
11. Catholics are not restricted from eating shell fish or pork like Muslims or Jews. We do fast and abstain before Communion, on Fridays, before holidays, during Lent and Advent, and for penance. Fast before a feast.
12. Jesus is the New Testament. New covenant.
13. Don’t face in a particular direction when we’re at home praying. But our churches are usually built facing east. There are many requirements in building a church following traditions etc.
14. Jesus is the Son of God. We accept that.
15. We study the Bible and believe the God of the Old Testament is our God, the God of the Jews.
16. Three Persons in One: God the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
17. Interesting. I don’t see it that way.

10, Can’t comment. We have Canon Law.

Catholics are encouraged to pray the rosary which takes about an hour. We also say grace before meals, some will attend Mass daily although not required, and may read devotionals such as A Catholic Book of Hours and Other Devotions

 

[bosnian_muslim]

Bukhari is one of the main trustworthy hadith writers for islam… and yes… when mohamad & islam is shown in a bad light from Bukhari, muslims claim a “false hadith”,… however… when it’s peaches & cream… oh well… it it the truth…

find me a Bukhari hadith where Muhammed is shown in a bad light?

but what you are talking about is not islam,its muslims it is called human nature

pa:its not deedat ,its science

 

[wwolverine]

The hadiths are stories and sayings from the prophet,they are there to show us an example to follow.The hadiths can be true or false,and its not fard(a must) to follow the hadiths…but they explain a lot.

So to be short,Koran is the only main source that we have,the hadiths ae there just to help us understand and follow the Koran

Dear Bosnian Muslim, What you are trying to say is that the quran was a direct revelation from allah, and allah uses language that is hard to read for most or all muslims, so along comes bukari and makes it easier for the muslim crowd to understand it.

So why would allah use such difficult language which was difficult to understand?

 

[Sam_777]

So to be short,Koran is the only main source that we have,the hadiths ae there just to help us understand and follow the Koran

Technically speaking that is not right!, for the Sunni Muslims the religious sources in Islam are Quran PLUS the 9 books of hadith, Muslim clerics then base their “Fatwa”, “Ijma”, and “Qiyas” on those two main sources.

jakasaki;6742417:

Bukhari is one of the main trustworthy hadith writers for islam… and yes… when mohamad & islam is shown in a bad light from Bukhari, muslims claim a “false hadith”,… however… when it’s peaches & cream… oh well… it it the truth…

find me a Bukhari hadith where Muhammed is shown in a bad light?

bosnian_muslim, here is one I remember:

Sahih Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 52, Number 261:
*"**A group of eight men from the tribe of 'Ukil came to the Prophet and then they found the climate of Medina unsuitable for them. So, they said, “O Allah’s Apostle! Provide us with some milk.” Allah’s Apostle said, “I recommend that you should join the herd of camels.” So they went and drank the urine and the milk of the camels (as a medicine) till they became healthy and fat. Then they killed the shepherd and drove away the camels, and they became unbelievers after they were Muslims. When the Prophet was informed by a shouter for help, he sent some men in their pursuit, and before the sun rose high, they were brought, and he had their hands and feet cut off. Then he ordered for nails which were heated and passed over their eyes, and whey were left in the Harra (i.e. rocky land in Medina). They asked for water, and nobody provided them with water till they died (Abu Qilaba, a sub-narrator said, “They committed murder and theft and fought against Allah and His Apostle, and spread evil in the land.”) *"

 

[bosnian_muslim]

Dear Bosnian Muslim, What you are trying to say is that the quran was a direct revelation from allah, and allah uses language that is hard to read for most or all muslims, so along comes bukari and makes it easier for the muslim crowd to understand it.

So why would allah use such difficult language which was difficult to understand?

Its not difficul to understantt,its not about understanding the Koran but giving an example to follow…we see how Muhammed behaved in different situations and follow him…thats why we have the hadith(which is not fard)

 

[bosnian_muslim]

Technically speaking that is not right!, for the Sunni Muslims the religious sources in Islam are Quran PLUS the 9 books of hadith, Muslim clerics then base their “Fatwa”, “Ijma”, and “Qiyas” on those two main sources.

bosnian_muslim, here is one I remember:

Sahih Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 52, Number 261:
*"**A group of eight men from the tribe of 'Ukil came to the Prophet and then they found the climate of Medina unsuitable for them. So, they said, “O Allah’s Apostle! Provide us with some milk.” Allah’s Apostle said, “I recommend that you should join the herd of camels.” So they went and drank the urine and the milk of the camels (as a medicine) till they became healthy and fat. Then they killed the shepherd and drove away the camels, and they became unbelievers after they were Muslims. When the Prophet was informed by a shouter for help, he sent some men in their pursuit, and before the sun rose high, they were brought, and he had their hands and feet cut off. Then he ordered for nails which were heated and passed over their eyes, and whey were left in the Harra (i.e. rocky land in Medina). They asked for water, and nobody provided them with water till they died (Abu Qilaba, a sub-narrator said, “They committed murder and theft and fought against Allah and His Apostle, and spread evil in the land.”) *"

The hadiths are there but no one will make takfeer on you if you deny them,they are not part of fundamental islam…so many muslims deny them(sunni muslims)

What is bad in that hadith? what should he have done after they did what they did?.An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth

 

[aicirt]

The hadiths are there but no one will make takfeer on you if you deny them,they are not part of fundamental islam…so many muslims deny them(sunni muslims)

What is bad in that hadith? what should he have done after they did what they did?.An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth

Didn’t your post say “that happened a 1000 years ago”? Did you edit?

Christ came before Muhammad and He never condoned violence. You got two sins here: theft and, apparently, changing one’s faith. So what was he actually punishing?

The Prophet served as an example of how to handle things. We certainly can expect others followed his lead. If Muhammad chopped off the hands and feet and blinded people with hot nails, his followers will do the same.

What do we expect (also in first post)? Mercy.

 

[bosnian_muslim]

An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth…thats about it.God in islam is strict and thats how the TRUE GOD is

its not one that will allow his prophet to hang on a cross and cry,thats not true God

 

[scipio337]

An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth…thats about it.God in islam is strict and thats how the TRUE GOD is

its not one that will allow his prophet to hang on a cross and cry,thats not true God.

But Christ abolished that Covenant during the “Sermon on the Mount”.
Matthew 5:38-42:

You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.’

But I say to you, offer no resistance to one who is evil. When someone strikes you on (your) right cheek, turn the other one to him as well.

If anyone wants to go to law with you over your tunic, hand him your cloak as well.

Should anyone press you into service for one mile, go with him for two miles.

Give to the one who asks of you, and do not turn your back on one who wants to borrow.

usccb.org/nab/bible/matthew/matthew5.htm

Aren’t two of the “attributes of Allah” “Al ‘Afuw”, and “Ar-Raheem”? I wouldn’t consider the hadith to be or “forgiving”, or “merciful”.

Our scriptures simply don’t agree, which is why Islam resorts to the bare assertion fallacy that “The Bible is corrupted”, to ignore passages such as those.

 

[aicirt]

An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth…thats about it.God in islam is strict and thats how the TRUE GOD is

its not one that will allow his prophet to hang on a cross and cry,thats not true God

WOW. How would it have been if the theives were told, having killed the shephard, they’d have to stay and take care of the shephard’s family by taking care of his camels? Or was that not possible because they’d have to be killed for renouncing Islam?

 

[aicirt]

Bosnian Muslim…in the post I saw you mentioned “what do you expect after what they did” and “that happened 1000 years ago.”

Would I be wrong in assuming that you believe that this is how the situation should be handled if it occurred today?

 

[Kaninchen]

An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth…thats about it.God in islam is strict and thats how the TRUE GOD is

Good grief, somebody based a religion on a complete misunderstanding!

 

[bosnian_muslim]

Bosnian Muslim…in the post I saw you mentioned “what do you expect after what they did” and “that happened 1000 years ago.”

Would I be wrong in assuming that you believe that this is how the situation should be handled if it occurred today?

Yes you would

but we are dicsussing islam not me

Good grief, somebody based a religion on a complete misunderstanding!

Couls you write a litle bit more about that? what do you want to say?

 

[bosnian_muslim]

I dont think that christians are worshiping the false God,but they made up a lot of false things about the true God.You worship Him but you dont know who He is.He will forgive everything but the fact that you gave Him a “partner”(Jesus) will not be forgiven,its the only thing God wont forgive.t: