T
trumpet152
Guest
Are the Jews still the chosen people? Or has this become the Church? And if the latter is true, is there any significance in being a Jew?
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S
SolaChristo
Guest
When God made His covenant with Abraham was it temporary of everlasting?
R
Romans5_1
Guest
The replacement theory is not new thinking. It has never had one iota of validity. The Jews will always be God’s people and the dispensation of grace afforded to the Church was for the Jew first then the Gentile. We are not the New Israel.
A
Aaron_I
Guest
The significance to being a Jew is that you are closer to the truth than any other non-Christian, but further from the truth than all Christians.
There is no inherent merit to being Jewish.
There is no inherent merit to being Jewish.
N
Neithan
Guest
God’s covenant with Abraham is forever, but it is fulfilled in Christ, and if Jews forsake Him, then they are lost. Pretty simple. There is no ‘special deal’ for them, they don’t get a complimentary ‘reject God’s Son and get out of hell free’ ticket.
The significance of being Jewish today is that you inherit the traditions of the Pharisees, and with that the Old Covenant, but also the addition of the Talmud. It’s not exactly the same religion anymore.
God’s chosen people are living today in Christ’s Mystical Body–the Church. Gentiles have been ‘grafted in’ to the Tree of Life (Romans 11:16-24). This indicates that Christianity naturally grew out of ancient Judaism.
Romans5:1:
newadvent.org/cathen/03744a.htm
The significance of being Jewish today is that you inherit the traditions of the Pharisees, and with that the Old Covenant, but also the addition of the Talmud. It’s not exactly the same religion anymore.
God’s chosen people are living today in Christ’s Mystical Body–the Church. Gentiles have been ‘grafted in’ to the Tree of Life (Romans 11:16-24). This indicates that Christianity naturally grew out of ancient Judaism.
Romans5:1:
Yes, we are actually–inaugurated by the New Covenant (see linked article below).
newadvent.org/cathen/03744a.htm
J
Jaypeeto4
Guest
The Catholic Church IS INDEED the new Israel of God.
However, as St. Paul says, the Jewish people remain
“beloved for the sake of the Patriarchs.”
Jaypeeto4 (aka Jaypeeto3)
However, as St. Paul says, the Jewish people remain
“beloved for the sake of the Patriarchs.”
Jaypeeto4 (aka Jaypeeto3)
J
JamesG
Guest
I still think that God loves his “chosen people” even if they don’t want to see the path of christ.
It is quite clear to me given all the hate and persecution that the Jews have suffered that they are still God people. It is also clear that Satan is still trying to harm his people.
The old covenant with the jews still stands.
The new covenant stands with those who put their faith in Christ.
It is quite clear to me given all the hate and persecution that the Jews have suffered that they are still God people. It is also clear that Satan is still trying to harm his people.
The old covenant with the jews still stands.
The new covenant stands with those who put their faith in Christ.
D
doomhammer
Guest
no, it isn’t.
Matthew “Then he took a cup, gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, “Drink from it, all of you, for this is my blood of the covenant, which will be shed on behalf of many for the forgiveness of sins”.” Mark: “He said to them, “This is my blood of the covenant, which will be shed for many”.” Luke: “This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which will be shed for you.” Paul: “This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me.”
The end of the bond between God and the Jews: Mark 15,38: “The veil of the sanctuary was torn in two from top to bottom”.
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a_cermak
Guest
But God is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow and his promises endure forever. Seems to me the old covenant still stands.
Pax,
Amy
Pax,
Amy
S
SFH
Guest
God made many promises to Abraham: Some of those promises related to his descendents’ acquisition of the Holy Lands and others related to the fact that “in his seed all the nations of the earth will be blessed.” Both were temporal with respect to the Jews. Eventually, the descendants of Abraham inherited the Holy Lands and all the nations of the earth were blessed in Christ.
As St. Paul points out, however, those promises also had a spiritual and eternal significance. God promised to bring Abraham and his promised descendants into God’s “rest.” The promise was not made to Abraham’s children according to the flesh (Ishmael), but to Abraham’s children according to the promise (Isaac). Or as St. Paul puts it, the promise was made to Abraham’s children according to the Faith. For Abraham believed, and it was counted to him by God as righteousness.
Because the Jews do not share the Faith of Abraham (i.e., belief in Christ to come, Who is come, and Who came), the spiritual and eternal elements of these promises do not apply to them. Instead, the spiritual and eternal elements of these promises apply to Catholics, who are Abrahams children according to the Faith.
So Jews are God’s Chosen People to receive his temporal promises and to preserve the Faith until Christ. With the advent of Christ, Catholics are the Chosen People. Or to put it another way, the Faith of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, David, and the Prophets was the Catholic Faith. While the worship Abraham offered God was different from what Moses offered God, which is different from what we offer God, we all believed and continue to believe the same thing. Judaism does not share the Faith of the Patriarchs and Prophets.
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a_cermak
Guest
I don’t think so. It’s the God of Abraham, Isaac and Joseph, not the God of Abraham, Isaac, Joseph, Peter and Paul.
Further, Abraham didn’t believe in Christ or the promise of Christ. Christ is only foreshadowed in prophecies that were written long after Abraham was dead.
I’ve never heard of the Catholics being God’s chosen people. I think the Copts and Orthodox would tussle with you for the claim.
I understood Catholics to be another of God’s people not displacing the Jews but standing beside them equally.
Pax,
Amy
Further, Abraham didn’t believe in Christ or the promise of Christ. Christ is only foreshadowed in prophecies that were written long after Abraham was dead.
I’ve never heard of the Catholics being God’s chosen people. I think the Copts and Orthodox would tussle with you for the claim.
I understood Catholics to be another of God’s people not displacing the Jews but standing beside them equally.
Pax,
Amy
S
SFH
Guest
On the contrary, Scripture has it, “Abraham your father rejoiced that he might see my day: he saw it, and was glad.” John 8:56
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mlchance
Guest
Yes, Abraham did. His convenant was with Christ. “Before Abraham was, I AM,” after all.
– Mark L. Chance.
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bones_IV
Guest
The Jews cannot be spoken of as an accursed or rejected people. So say they are a rejected people is AntiSemitism and is against the teachings of the Church. They are still God’s chosen people, cause God never revokes his promises. Why would God condemn them for something that isn’t their fault? To do so is against the very nature of God. God would never abandon his people. Never.
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bones_IV
Guest
I think what he meant was is that Abraham believed in Christ and didn’t even know it. That is to say, he prayed to Jesus Christ and didn’t even know it.
J
JKirkLVNV
Guest
God’s covenant with the Jews IS eternal and it IS salvific…provided it includes Jesus, as He is the covenant’s Fufillment. If it doesn’t, then it ain’t.
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LatinCat
Guest
The reason why non-Christian Jews are not the chosen people is simple: They rejected the fulfilled covent God offered them in Christ Jesus.
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bigdawg
Guest
The Church (Catholic) is most definitely the “new Israel,”.
From Vatican II: Israel according to the flesh, which wandered as an exile in the desert, was already called the Church of God.(96) So likewise the New Israel which while living in this present age goes in search of a future and abiding city (97) is called the Church of Christ. (Lumen Gentium: On the People of God, II, 9).
Ad Gentes states: “Thus the Apostles were the seeds of the New Israel and the beginning of the sacred hierarchy” (1, 5).
As Isaiah 66:20-21 intimated, the new Israel has its own priests chosen by God for His service, and John Paul II reiterated this truth:…an unceasing echo of the words concerning Israel, whom the Lord “has chosen as his own possession.” For in every consecrated person the Israel of the new and eternal covenant is chosen. The whole messianic people, the entire Church, is chosen in every person whom the Lord selects from the midst of this people. (Redemptionis Donum, III, 8).
Or as St. Athanasius put it:
“So the Jews are trifling, and the time in question, which they refer to the future, is actually come. For when did prophet and vision cease from Israel, save when Christ came, the Holy of Holies? For it is a sign, and an important proof, of the coming of the Word of God, that Jerusalem no longer stands, nor is any prophet raised up nor vision revealed to them, and that very naturally. For when He that was signified was come, what need was there any longer of any to signify Him? When the truth was there, what need any more of the shadow? For this was the reason of their prophesying at all, namely, till the true Righteousness should come, and He that was to ransom the sins of all. And this was why Jerusalem stood till then, namely, that there they might be exercised in the types as a preparation for the reality” (Treatise on the Incarnation, 40).
(above is a summary from…I don’t remember where)
See also:
newadvent.org/cathen/03744a.htm
CCC 877
catholic.com/thisrock/1999/9902chap.asp
It should be clear that the Catholic Church is the New Israel and that Judaism is not salvific for anyone and never will be. The NT is pretty clear that the old covenant is null and void.
The Old Covenant has been totally done away with (at least as represented by the Mosaic code). The entire book of Hebrews drives this point home. The theme is constant… one covenant replaced another (Hebrew 7:18; 8:13; 10:9, 16-18).
If someone wants to still live by the law, they put themselves under condemnation (Gal 3:10-12; 5:3-4).
For further reading try the Council of Florence.
From Vatican II: Israel according to the flesh, which wandered as an exile in the desert, was already called the Church of God.(96) So likewise the New Israel which while living in this present age goes in search of a future and abiding city (97) is called the Church of Christ. (Lumen Gentium: On the People of God, II, 9).
Ad Gentes states: “Thus the Apostles were the seeds of the New Israel and the beginning of the sacred hierarchy” (1, 5).
As Isaiah 66:20-21 intimated, the new Israel has its own priests chosen by God for His service, and John Paul II reiterated this truth:…an unceasing echo of the words concerning Israel, whom the Lord “has chosen as his own possession.” For in every consecrated person the Israel of the new and eternal covenant is chosen. The whole messianic people, the entire Church, is chosen in every person whom the Lord selects from the midst of this people. (Redemptionis Donum, III, 8).
Or as St. Athanasius put it:
“So the Jews are trifling, and the time in question, which they refer to the future, is actually come. For when did prophet and vision cease from Israel, save when Christ came, the Holy of Holies? For it is a sign, and an important proof, of the coming of the Word of God, that Jerusalem no longer stands, nor is any prophet raised up nor vision revealed to them, and that very naturally. For when He that was signified was come, what need was there any longer of any to signify Him? When the truth was there, what need any more of the shadow? For this was the reason of their prophesying at all, namely, till the true Righteousness should come, and He that was to ransom the sins of all. And this was why Jerusalem stood till then, namely, that there they might be exercised in the types as a preparation for the reality” (Treatise on the Incarnation, 40).
(above is a summary from…I don’t remember where)
See also:
newadvent.org/cathen/03744a.htm
CCC 877
catholic.com/thisrock/1999/9902chap.asp
It should be clear that the Catholic Church is the New Israel and that Judaism is not salvific for anyone and never will be. The NT is pretty clear that the old covenant is null and void.
The Old Covenant has been totally done away with (at least as represented by the Mosaic code). The entire book of Hebrews drives this point home. The theme is constant… one covenant replaced another (Hebrew 7:18; 8:13; 10:9, 16-18).
If someone wants to still live by the law, they put themselves under condemnation (Gal 3:10-12; 5:3-4).
For further reading try the Council of Florence.
B
BlestOne
Guest
God’s covenant with Abraham WAS fulfilled with Jesus the Christ. Just because some Jews didn’t recognize it doesn’t make it not fulfilled. Yes the Catholic Church is the New Israel…the culmination of the fulfillment of the covenant with God’s people Israel. Afterall if a tree falls in the forrest it still makes a sound whether anyone is there to hear it or not.
K
katewithak
Guest
In a major address in 1980, Pope John Paul II linked the renewed understanding of Scripture with the** Church’s understanding of its relationship with the Jewish people, stating that the dialogue, as “the meeting between the people of God of the Old Covenant, never revoked by God,** is at the same time a dialogue within our Church, that is to say, a dialogue between the first and second part of its Bible” (Pope John Paul II, Mainz, November 17, 1980).
usccb.org/liturgy/godsmercy.shtml
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