Jews Catholics Conversion Covenant

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gap51 said:
chosen people;3641558:
Dear Catholic friends:

Human beings are not God and God does not take the form of human beings
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. /quote]

According to the Catholc Bible (NAB) Genesis 18:1. "The Lord (singular) appeared to Abraham … 18:2. Looking up he saw three **men **(plural … The Most Holy Trinity ?) & in “the form of human beings”)… and bowing to the ground (worship ?).

This is a translation from the Hebrew Bible but references may be different. How do you explain this in the context of your assertions? Just interested to hear your point of view.

God bless.

What is written in Hebrew is simply shlosha anashim - three people or three men- the hebrew text does not support your NAB english translation.

In addition I believe it is impossible to translate a Jewish work like the Tanach seperately from Judaism. Let’s pretend that you belong to a religious group that believes that God came into existence with the creation of the world. Could you not point to the the first word of the Tanach “bereishit” commonly translated as “in the beginning” to support your belief? However the unpronouncable name of God is made up of the hebrew verbs was is and will be. In this way the fact that God always was always is and always will be is seen. So someone translating with an understanding of Judaism would understand that the beginning refers not to the beginning of God but to the beginning of the creation of the earth. Likewise the Tanach can no more support God taking a human form than it can support that God came into existence with the creation of the earth.
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Previous post:
Human beings are not God and God does not take the form of human beings.
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Sorry to disappoint you, but this is from the Catechism of the Church:
464 The unique and altogether singular event of the Incarnation of the Son of God does not mean that Jesus Christ is part God and part man, nor does it imply that he is the result of a confused mixture of the divine and the human. He became truly man while remaining truly God. Jesus Christ is true God and true man.
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The technical name for the doctrine is called the Hypostatic union.

Continuing:
According to the Catholc Bible (NAB) Genesis 18:1. "The Lord (singular) appeared to Abraham … 18:2. Looking up he saw three men (plural … The Most Holy Trinity ?) & in “the form of human beings”)… and bowing to the ground (worship ?).
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From the New American Bible:
1 The LORD appeared to Abraham by the terebinth of Mamre, as he sat in the entrance of his tent, while the day was growing hot.
2 Looking up, he saw three men standing nearby. When he saw them, he ran from the entrance of the tent to greet them; and bowing to the ground,
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The footnotes indicate:
Abraham addresses the leader of the group, whom he does not yet recognize as Yahweh; in the next two verses he speaks to all three men. The other two are later (Genesis 19:1) identified as messengers.
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jdnrite01 said:
I:

Do you think other bloggers’ opinions concerning “righteousness” is more authoritative than the Pope’s opinion? See my quote from Pope Blessed Pius IX.
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Actually I’m most familiar with his quote on the “howling dogs”
 
jdnrite01 said:
Previous post:

Sorry to disappoint you, but this is from the Catechism of the Church:

The technical name for the doctrine is called the Hypostatic union.

Continuing:

From the New American Bible:

The footnotes indicate:
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Firstly you do not “disappoint me” as your beliefs are yours to hold and my purpose is to show the Jewish perspective not in any way disabuse you of your religious beliefs.

I am sorry but the comments in the NAB while they may arise from your faith do not arise from the hebrew text itself.
 
chosen_people said:
gap51;3641928:
What is written in Hebrew is simply shlosha anashim - three people or three men- the hebrew text does not support your NAB english translation.

In addition I believe it is impossible to translate a Jewish work like the Tanach seperately from Judaism. Let’s pretend that you belong to a religious group that believes that God came into existence with the creation of the world. Could you not point to the the first word of the Tanach “bereishit” commonly translated as “in the beginning” to support your belief? However the unpronouncable name of God is made up of the hebrew verbs was is and will be. In this way the fact that God always was always is and always will be is seen. So someone translating with an understanding of Judaism would understand that the beginning refers not to the beginning of God but to the beginning of the creation of the earth. Likewise the Tanach can no more support God taking a human form than it can support that God came into existence with the creation of the earth.
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What annswer I am really looking for is if our Father Abraham (Oh yes! hes’s our Father in Faith also) bowed down to **men **was he adoring them? Again, & I emphasise this here, I am ignorant of the Hebrew Bible version. All your explanation about the “beginning” we Catholics understand. God is beyond time. He is “I AM”.

God bless.
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gap51 said:
chosen people;3641986:
What annswer I am really looking for is if our Father Abraham (Oh yes! hes’s our Father in Faith also) bowed down to **men **
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was he adoring them? Again, & I emphasise this here, I am ignorant of the Hebrew Bible version. All your explanation about the “beginning” we Catholics understand. God is beyond time. He is “I AM”.

God bless.

Here before you is a biblical passage teaching you about kindness to strangers. Abraham is an old man with his elderly wife Sarah. He is with her alone in his tent when three strange men approach. Surely he is frightened and falls to the ground before them showing that he means no harm and hoping they mean no harm to him. Then he invites these three strangers into his home and feeds them and gives them drink. How natural it would have been to try and drive them away as quickly as possible but he didn’t and is rewarded for his actions with a message from God. It shows you who Abraham is as a person and it shows you how we should act towards one another. That’s what Jews see when they read that passage, you apparently see the trinity.
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Firstly you do not “disappoint me” as your beliefs are yours to hold and my purpose is to show the Jewish perspective not in any way disabuse you of your religious beliefs.
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I wasn’t referring to you. I was speaking to gap51.
 
chosen_people said:
Now of course your free to believe what ever you desire.
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This is the heart of the problem, people believing whatever “they” desire instead of believing Gods Truth as revealed in His written word.

BTW do you believe in Rabbinical Judaism or Biblical Judaism?

.
 
emeraldisle said:
This is the heart of the problem, people believing whatever “they” desire instead of believing Gods Truth as revealed in His written word.

BTW do you believe in Rabbinical Judaism or Biblical Judaism?

.
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Could you please explain what you mean by “Biblical Judaism” as opposed to “Rabbinical Judaism” before I attempt to answer your question
 
chosen_people said:
…God does not take the form of human beings…
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I like how you say “does not” rather than “cannot”. G-d has taken the form of a burning bush and a pillar of fire and smoke, so I see no reason why he couldn’t take the form of a human if he wished.

Given that at the heart of the differences in our beliefs is the question “did G-d take on human form in the person of Jesus of Nazareth”, it begs the question to say that he didn’t on the grounds that he doesn’t do it.

As for the discussion about whether being “righteous” means being “Catholic”, given that I sincerely believe that it is G-d’s will for me to be a Catholic then for me to refuse to do would involve some degree of unrighteousness.

By the way, you appear to be in very little need of practice at writing in English.
 
Dear Chosen People,

Any explanations about Genesis 32:26-31

God bless
 
Not me. Most likely, the three strangers are Archangels Michael, Raphael and Gabriel, and this is consistent with Jewish thought. See Parshas Vayera Genesis 18:1 - 22:24
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I didn’t say that right. (Actually, I’m using Vista, and it somethimes highlights text by itself, and if you hit a key while highlighted, the text disappears.The highlighted text which follows simply vanished into the Ether!) It should say "Not me. Most likely, Yahweh appeared to him. Your understanding that it was three simple strangers doesn’t appear to be contemporary Jewish thought. According to some, the three strangers are Archangels Michael, Raphael and Gabriel, and this is consistent with Jewish thought. See Parshas Vayera Genesis 18:1 - 22:24.
 
Regarding your statement about Pius IX:
Actually I’m most familiar with his quote on the “howling dogs”
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It probably isn’t the greatest image. Some of the Rabbinic authorities in the Talmud also said dumb things. According to JewishEncyclopedia.com:
Simon ben Yoḥai is preeminently the anti-Gentile teacher. In a collection of three sayings of his, beginning with the keyword (Yer. Ḳid. 66c; Massek. Soferim xv. 10; Mek., Beshal-laḥ, 27a; Tan., Wayera, ed. Buber, 20), is found the expression, often quoted by anti-Semites, “Ṭob shebe-goyyim harog” (=“The best among the Gentiles deserves to be killed”).
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neophyte said:
I like how you say “does not” rather than “cannot”. G-d has taken the form of a burning bush and a pillar of fire and smoke, so I see no reason why he couldn’t take the form of a human if he wished.

Given that at the heart of the differences in our beliefs is the question “did G-d take on human form in the person of Jesus of Nazareth”, it begs the question to say that he didn’t on the grounds that he doesn’t do it.

As for the discussion about whether being “righteous” means being “Catholic”, given that I sincerely believe that it is G-d’s will for me to be a Catholic then for me to refuse to do would involve some degree of unrighteousness.

By the way, you appear to be in very little need of practice at writing in English.
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I believe it is significant that God is always represented in a surreal non human form in the Tanach and I do not believe that this is by accident. In nature there are no burning bushes on fire not being consumed. There is therefore no worry that a Jew would take a bush and give it some sort of religious significance. Nothing real natural and tangible ever represents God in the Tanach. Jews were surrounded by people who worshiped natural and man made objects. They were surrounded by political leaders claiming divinity and by legends of gods taking human form and coming to earth. The Jews rejected these concepts. The story of Yehoshua bar Yosef is identical to similar stories in ancient Egypt in ancient Persia in ancient Greece and in ancient Rome. Now you could claim that these recurring stories were a preperation for mankind and before Yehoshua bar Yosef they merely had the wrong person. The Jews on the other hand did not and do not believe this is the case. Just as they rejected Mithra or Augustus or Shabtai Ben Zvi as devine they rejected Yehoshua bar Yosef. The concept of God taking human form and coming to earth is what they battled against for over a thousand years before Yehoshua bar Yosef. With all due respect, a God taking human form is totally contrary to the Jewish concept of God.
 
Gap51:
QUOTE]I think your response was to do with Chosen Peoples’ quote which I included in my post. I have no problems with your response
Sorry. I thought YOU said that. My bad.
 
Could you please explain what you mean by “Biblical Judaism” as opposed to “Rabbinical Judaism” before I attempt to answer your question
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I think emeraldisle is referring to Karaite Judaism.
 
jdnrite01 said:
I didn’t say that right. (Actually, I’m using Vista, and it somethimes highlights text by itself, and if you hit a key while highlighted, the text disappears.The highlighted text which follows simply vanished into the Ether!) It should say "Not me. Most likely, Yahweh appeared to him. Your understanding that it was three simple strangers doesn’t appear to be contemporary Jewish thought. According to some, the three strangers are Archangels Michael, Raphael and Gabriel, and this is consistent with Jewish thought. See Parshas Vayera Genesis 18:1 - 22:24.
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Indeed as messengers carrying a message from God they are often seen as angels though not of course as God. It is important to remember that Abraham couldn’t have known this when he invited them into to his home.
 
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