Jews--Christians--Muslims...same God?

[nmgauss]

Continuing with Karen Armstrong’s text:
“We can go further. It is highly likely that Abraham’s God was El, the High God of Canaan. The deity introduces himself to Abraham as El Shaddai (El of the Mountain), which was one of El’s traditional titles. Elsewhere he is called El Elyon (The Most High God) or El of Bethel. The name of the Canaanite High God is preserved in such Hebrew names as Isra-El or Ishma-El. They experienced him in ways that would not have been unfamiliar to the pagans of the Middle East. We shall see that centuries later Israelites found the mana or “holiness” a terrifying experience. On Mount Sinai, for example, he would appear to Moses in the midst of an awe-inspiring volcanic eruption, and the Israelites had to keep their distance. In comparison, Abraham’s god El is a very mild deity. He appears to Abraham as a friend and sometimes even assumes human form. This type of divine apparition, known as an epiphany, was quite common in the pagan world of antiquity. Even though in general the gods were not expected to intervene directly in the lives of moral men and women, certain privileged individuals in mythical times had encountered their gods face to face.”

The underscored passage above reveals that the god of Abraham was not the god of Moses even though the name YHWH was applied to both in the Bible. Abraham’s god actually visits him in his tent along with two angels. Abraham then offers food to them. The god of Moses was fearsome and demanded distance. Scholars have traced this difference to two different authors, J, and E. J used the term “YHWH” whereas E used the term “Elohim”.

 

[daler]

Once again we have a diatribe. Can this be summarized?

Sorry for the diatribe. The intention was to demonstrate the similarity, or continuity, in God’s “methods” of dealing with the bad guys, whether in the Old Testament times, or when Muhammad was around, or even now.

 

[nmgauss]

Sorry for the diatribe. The intention was to demonstrate the similarity, or continuity, in God’s “methods” of dealing with the bad guys, whether in the Old Testament times, or when Muhammad was around, or even now.

So, are you saying that if Yahweh destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah because these were sinful cities, promoted the slaughter of the worshippers of the golden calf after the Exodus, sponsored Joshua in the slaughtering of the Canaanites because the Israelites deserved their land and they did not worship Yahweh, that you are justified in slaughtering people who want to worship differently from the way you currently worship?

Was Elijah justified in slaughtering the prophets of Baal when Baal failed his test?

Are people bad when they do not worship Jesus or God or Allah and deserve to be killed? If they are not seeking salvation, are they necessarily bad and need to be eliminated? If people preach that there is no God, are they blasphemers and deserve to be eliminated? If a Muslim preaches to Christians that Jesus was not the Son of God, is he bad?

 

[daler]

So, are you saying that if Yahweh destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah because these were sinful cities, promoted the slaughter of the worshippers of the golden calf after the Exodus, sponsored Joshua in the slaughtering of the Canaanites because the Israelites deserved their land and they did not worship Yahweh, that you are justified in slaughtering people who want to worship differently from the way you currently worship?

Was Elijah justified in slaughtering the prophets of Baal when Baal failed his test?

Are people bad when they do not worship Jesus or God or Allah and deserve to be killed? If they are not seeking salvation, are they necessarily bad and need to be eliminated? If people preach that there is no God, are they blasphemers and deserve to be eliminated? If a Muslim preaches to Christians that Jesus was not the Son of God, is he bad?

nmgauss, You’ve got a big one here, I’ll grant ya that. Guess I’d start by saying that “I’m not saying that…” Really not meaning to slip out the back door here, but what we’re looking to do is find consistency from one revelation to the next through all of these Prophets and the historical record that we have that’s been handed down to us. I don’t think I want to get into justifying all that you are pointing out, for sometimes I have the same reactions. That being said, I wish to say the following:
I think that God is essentially taming the wolf out of us to turn us into something better, like a useful, friendly labrador, or maybe a shepherd, instead of a rabid pit bull. How He accomplishes that, and what is or isn’t true going way back through all of that stuff, I can only try and speculate. For example, During Muhammad’s time, the people had reverted to idol worship, just as they had when Moses came down the mountain.
For the sake of trying to understand how important it apparently is for people to turn towards and worship God, let us assume, for starters, that it is “very” important, and that when we pervert this “worship Instinct”, it not only affects us, and diminishes our soul to a degraded level that we “die spiritually”. This, in the context that our soul is eternal, that we live on past the death of our bodies, and that it really is important, right?
So if we pervert our own soul, if thats the right word for it, and so fail in our purpose that it has an extreme consequence which may not be apparent to us, but is to the Prophets through Whom God expresses His will, then we have an argument for what this is all about. Now if we don’t accept, or refuse to consider, that its that important, then there’s no sense in talking about it. But if it is that important, then maybe, just maybe, we ought to listen to these guys, ie, Moses, Jesus, Muhammad, etc.
Maybe think of it in another way, like there is poison in the water, radiation, and God is herding us away from that poisonous well for the sake of ourselves and our children, etc. So transfer the idea to a poisonous spirit being imbibed, that behavior passed on, essentially killing ourselves. Not apparent physically, because people still eat, drink, and be merry. But the whole thing of God and His Prophets is more than the physical, right?
Anyway, thats where my head goes. As to Elijah and the priests of Ba’al, I don’t think its a literal fire he called down from the sky, I think he gave them hell! The way my old man gave me hell back on the farm, where there was a life or death situation. If you screw up on the farm and get chewed up in machinery, or kicked in the head by a horse because you’re a stupid kid, you’re dead meat!

 

[daler]

The underscored passage above reveals that the god of Abraham was not the god of Moses even though the name YHWH was applied to both in the Bible. Abraham’s god actually visits him in his tent along with two angels. Abraham then offers food to them. The god of Moses was fearsome and demanded distance. Scholars have traced this difference to two different authors, J, and E. J used the term “YHWH” whereas E used the term “Elohim”.

I’ve gotta totally reject the idea that there is more than one God being worshipped by any of the Prophets of God. That is, that regardless of what kind of words are being scribbled on somebody’s parchment, “It is so simple that a child can understand it.” applies. People tend to want to twist, contort, and complicate matters.
There is a manner of storytelling going on throughout all of human history, right? People pass these stories along orally, then finally they get written down, centuries, or maybe thousands of years later, and somebody spells it this way or that, and somebody else starts counterfeiting, and before you know it, people are arguing about it on the Internet!!!
Hello!! Anybody out there? There is one physical sun in our solar system. Call it whatever you want. We can point to it, right?
There is one God Who created the world, if one accepts the concept of monotheism, which Abraham taught, Moses taught, Jesus and Muhammad taught, and that the Bab and Baha’u’llah taught. We speak different dialects and languages, right? You say “sol”, I say “sun”. You say God, I say Great Spirit. What’s the problem here? Ain’t nobody got anything better to do? No wonder God gets mad at us from time to time, cause we keep wastin’ our time bickerin’ over stuff while we ought to be plowin’ the fields, plantin’ some corn, or helpin’ with the harvest, or something.
Peace, Shalom, etc, et al…

 

[nmgauss]

Actually monotheism did not become the official teaching until after Elijah was able to prove that Baal was ineffective. Both Abraham and Moses recognized the existence of several gods. But one was more important than the others, and that was Yahweh.

But I like your comment, “Ain’t nobody got anything better to do? No wonder God gets mad at us from time to time, cause we keep wastin’ our time bickerin’ over stuff while we ought to be plowin’ the fields, plantin’ some corn, or helpin’ with the harvest, or something.”

Religions among people who derived their living from the land, were much more practical than the religions of city people. If they had a good harvest, they thanked the god responsible for this and devoted considerable attention to influencing this god to repeat his performance in the following year. Praying to the rain god for water also received their attention. If their prayers were repeatedly ignored, they looked for other gods. A religious belief was abandoned if it was of no use to survival here on Earth.

Material life on Earth was more important than spiritual life in heaven for ancient farmers and pastoralists. City people were more likely to concentrate on their souls and life after death, hence the appeal of Christianity.

 

[daler]

Actually monotheism did not become the official teaching until after Elijah was able to prove that Baal was ineffective. Both Abraham and Moses recognized the existence of several gods. But one was more important than the others, and that was Yahweh.

But I like your comment, “Ain’t nobody got anything better to do? No wonder God gets mad at us from time to time, cause we keep wastin’ our time bickerin’ over stuff while we ought to be plowin’ the fields, plantin’ some corn, or helpin’ with the harvest, or something.”

Religions among people who derived their living from the land, were much more practical than the religions of city people. If they had a good harvest, they thanked the god responsible for this and devoted considerable attention to influencing this god to repeat his performance in the following year. Praying to the rain god for water also received their attention. If their prayers were repeatedly ignored, they looked for other gods. A religious belief was abandoned if it was of no use to survival here on Earth.

Material life on Earth was more important than spiritual life in heaven for ancient farmers and pastoralists. City people were more likely to concentrate on their souls and life after death, hence the appeal of Christianity.

Beautiful insight and commentary here. I’ve had to wonder about the sacrifices offered at the time of Abraham, which seemed to be the norm. Then He was told to offer either Isaac or Ishmael, depending on whether the Jewish or Muslim account is favored, which to me is some kind of progression of the symbology of who we are in relation to God and what it is that He wants us to recognize, in stages.
As tough as it is to comprehend how God could tell Abraham, “Go and sacrifice your son.”, we do it all the time, in our wars. We sacrifice our kids at the altar of our pride, refusing to even acknowledge that it is the same God being prayed to, calling the “other guys” heathens, savages, and infidels all the time, never acknowledging our own rotten natures in the process.
Exactly who are we praying to when we refuse to sit down with people of different colors, nationalities, and religions? Is it the God of Abraham? Jesus? Muhammad?
“There shall be One Fold, and One Shepherd”
and everybody is invited…

 

[MollyMac]

I’ve gotta totally reject the idea that there is more than one God being worshipped by any of the Prophets of God. That is, that regardless of what kind of words are being scribbled on somebody’s parchment, “It is so simple that a child can understand it.” applies. People tend to want to twist, contort, and complicate matters.
There is a manner of storytelling going on throughout all of human history, right? People pass these stories along orally, then finally they get written down, centuries, or maybe thousands of years later, and somebody spells it this way or that, and somebody else starts counterfeiting, and before you know it, people are arguing about it on the Internet!!!
Hello!! Anybody out there? There is one physical sun in our solar system. Call it whatever you want. We can point to it, right?
There is one God Who created the world, if one accepts the concept of monotheism, which Abraham taught, Moses taught, Jesus and Muhammad taught, and that the Bab and Baha’u’llah taught. We speak different dialects and languages, right? You say “sol”, I say “sun”. You say God, I say Great Spirit. What’s the problem here? Ain’t nobody got anything better to do? No wonder God gets mad at us from time to time, cause we keep wastin’ our time bickerin’ over stuff while we ought to be plowin’ the fields, plantin’ some corn, or helpin’ with the harvest, or something.
Peace, Shalom, etc, et al…

The problem is whether or not one addresses Jesus Christ as their Lord and Saviour. Jesus Christ is the name above all names and what sets apart Christianity from all the other religions in the world. (I know at this point most have heard this claim, but it is a Truth)

 

[MollyMac]

The underscored passage above reveals that the god of Abraham was not the god of Moses even though the name YHWH was applied to both in the Bible. Abraham’s god actually visits him in his tent along with two angels. Abraham then offers food to them. The god of Moses was fearsome and demanded distance. Scholars have traced this difference to two different authors, J, and E. J used the term “YHWH” whereas E used the term “Elohim”.

The God of Abraham was not “fearsome”? He destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah and then turned Lot’s wife into a pillar of salt…

I suppose the term “scholar” can be tacked onto anyone. The “God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob” is talked about plenty in the Bible (Old and New Testament). God introduced Himself TO MOSES as the God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob in Genesis 3:6…the same chapter where God says, “I AM WHO I AM.”…where God repeats in verse 15 AND 16 that He is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

 

[MollyMac]

nmgauss, You’ve got a big one here, I’ll grant ya that. Guess I’d start by saying that “I’m not saying that…” Really not meaning to slip out the back door here, but what we’re looking to do is find consistency from one revelation to the next through all of these Prophets and the historical record that we have that’s been handed down to us. I don’t think I want to get into justifying all that you are pointing out, for sometimes I have the same reactions. That being said, I wish to say the following:
I think that God is essentially taming the wolf out of us to turn us into something better, like a useful, friendly labrador, or maybe a shepherd, instead of a rabid pit bull. How He accomplishes that, and what is or isn’t true going way back through all of that stuff, I can only try and speculate. For example, During Muhammad’s time, the people had reverted to idol worship, just as they had when Moses came down the mountain.
For the sake of trying to understand how important it apparently is for people to turn towards and worship God, let us assume, for starters, that it is “very” important, and that when we pervert this “worship Instinct”, it not only affects us, and diminishes our soul to a degraded level that we “die spiritually”. This, in the context that our soul is eternal, that we live on past the death of our bodies, and that it really is important, right?
So if we pervert our own soul, if thats the right word for it, and so fail in our purpose that it has an extreme consequence which may not be apparent to us, but is to the Prophets through Whom God expresses His will, then we have an argument for what this is all about. Now if we don’t accept, or refuse to consider, that its that important, then there’s no sense in talking about it. But if it is that important, then maybe, just maybe, we ought to listen to these guys, ie, Moses, Jesus, Muhammad, etc.
Maybe think of it in another way, like there is poison in the water, radiation, and God is herding us away from that poisonous well for the sake of ourselves and our children, etc. So transfer the idea to a poisonous spirit being imbibed, that behavior passed on, essentially killing ourselves. Not apparent physically, because people still eat, drink, and be merry. But the whole thing of God and His Prophets is more than the physical, right?
*** Anyway, thats where my head goes. As to Elijah and the priests of Ba’al, I don’t think its a literal fire he called down from the sky, I think he gave them hell! The way my old man gave me hell back on the farm, where there was a life or death situation. If you screw up on the farm and get chewed up in machinery, or kicked in the head by a horse because you’re a stupid kid, you’re dead meat!/***QUOTE]

 

[MollyMac]

So, are you saying that if Yahweh destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah because these were sinful cities, promoted the slaughter of the worshippers of the golden calf after the Exodus, sponsored Joshua in the slaughtering of the Canaanites because the Israelites deserved their land and they did not worship Yahweh, that you are justified in slaughtering people who want to worship differently from the way you currently worship?

Was Elijah justified in slaughtering the prophets of Baal when Baal failed his test?

Are people bad when they do not worship Jesus or God or Allah and deserve to be killed? If they are not seeking salvation, are they necessarily bad and need to be eliminated? If people preach that there is no God, are they blasphemers and deserve to be eliminated? If a Muslim preaches to Christians that Jesus was not the Son of God, is he bad?

nmgauss, I realize this post was not directed towards me, but I hope you do not mind me answering your questions according to what I believe. You bring up good questions.

Are people bad? In general, YES. Every single person on the planet is sinful because we are not yet perfected and in our glorified state. No one can be perfect as Christ was perfect while He walked the earth.

The person who says “There is no God” is a fool according to Psalm 14:1. It is God’s place to judge them, it is a Christians place to love them and give them the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Yes, a Muslim who preaches to Christians that Jesus was not the Son of God is “bad/sinful” (He is contradicting the words of Christ). Just like the Christian who chooses to go about his life without preaching the Gospel-that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God and to have eternal life a person needs to believe He is the Saviour-is “bad/sinful”. We are all full of sin (Muslim, Christian, Hindu, etc.) just some of us are forgiven in the Holy Bible’s terms.

“…but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in His name.” John 20:31

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

MollyMac;10880567]…Are people bad? In general, YES. Every single person on the planet is sinful because we are not yet perfected and in our glorified state. No one can be perfect as Christ was perfect while He walked the earth.

When God created all those things that did not exist into existence; God called them “Good”. Jesus say’s to the believer, “be perfect as your heavenly Father is perfect”. The Catholic saints and martyrs gave witness and proof that we are made perfect only in Christ. Man by himself falls and returns to dust.

Before the fall our first parents had the freewill to sin or not to sin. After the fall all humanity could do was sin, “thus the law”. Christ came to redeem our humanity so that through Christ we again are given the freedom to sin or not to sin, to chose death or chose life.

The person who says “There is no God” is a fool according to Psalm 14:1. It is God’s place to judge them, it is a Christians place to love them and give them the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Our master Jesus Christ paved the path for all believers to follow His example; And He was crucified for His love, which Christians are to follow.

Yes, a Muslim who preaches to Christians that Jesus was not the Son of God is “bad/sinful” (He is contradicting the words of Christ). Just like the Christian who chooses to go about his life without preaching the Gospel-that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God and to have eternal life a person needs to believe He is the Saviour-is “bad/sinful”. We are all full of sin (Muslim, Christian, Hindu, etc.) just some of us are forgiven in the Holy Bible’s terms.

We Christians allow Muslims the freedom to believe and practice their religious practices in our societies. Muslim communities and Muslim controlled country’s will not allow any Muslim to convert or to receive Christian teachings, let alone to possess a Christian bible in a Muslim home or be punished and be put to death.

 

[daler]

Yes, a Muslim who preaches to Christians that Jesus was not the Son of God is “bad/sinful” (He is contradicting the words of Christ). Just like the Christian who chooses to go about his life without preaching the Gospel-that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God and to have eternal life a person needs to believe He is the Saviour-is “bad/sinful”. We are all full of sin (Muslim, Christian, Hindu, etc.) just some of us are forgiven in the Holy Bible’s terms.

“…but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in His name.” John 20:31

Molly, If I may enter into this conversation a bit, I believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Anointed One and Messiah, and the Son of God, but not “begotten” in a physical or biological sense, but rather in a spiritual sense, meaning that He is related eternally to God in a way that we are not. We then are through Him related to God, and without Him we are not.
I think that the terminology in the Quran is saying something to this effect, that “God is not begotten, nor does He beget”, and emphasizes the perspective that God sends us Messengers Who bare His Message, even as Jesus Himself says plainly: “These are not My words, but HIm that sent Me.”
So there is agreement between the two, if we accept the words of Jesus Himself in this verse. If one does not accept the words of Jesus, that He is a Messenger of God, whose words are not His own, then there is disagreement.
We also have to look as such verses as, “My Father is greater than I”. He did not say, “I am greater than Myself.” and “I go to the Father” , not “I go to Myself”.
Also, upon the cross, Jesus said, “Why has thou forsaken Me?”
He did not say, “Why have I forsaken Myself.”
So there is always a distinction in how He states His relationship with God, and I know that people then start talking about God in three Persons, etc, but that is where in the Quran it very clearly condemns the idea of three Gods and always, always places the emphasis on God alone, with His Messengers being Messengers, not incarnations of God.
That is my understanding. Logically, and theologically, it makes a lot of sense.

 

[MollyMac]

Yes, a Muslim who preaches to Christians that Jesus was not the Son of God is “bad/sinful” (He is contradicting the words of Christ). Just like the Christian who chooses to go about his life without preaching the Gospel-that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God and to have eternal life a person needs to believe He is the Saviour-is “bad/sinful”. We are all full of sin (Muslim, Christian, Hindu, etc.) just some of us are forgiven in the Holy Bible’s terms.

“…but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in His name.” John 20:31

Molly, If I may enter into this conversation a bit, I believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Anointed One and Messiah, and the Son of God, but not “begotten” in a physical or biological sense, but rather in a spiritual sense, meaning that He is related eternally to God in a way that we are not. We then are through Him related to God, and without Him we are not.
I think that the terminology in the Quran is saying something to this effect, that “God is not begotten, nor does He beget”, and emphasizes the perspective that God sends us Messengers Who bare His Message, even as Jesus Himself says plainly: “These are not My words, but HIm that sent Me.”
So there is agreement between the two, if we accept the words of Jesus Himself in this verse. If one does not accept the words of Jesus, that He is a Messenger of God, whose words are not His own, then there is disagreement.
We also have to look as such verses as, “My Father is greater than I”. He did not say, “I am greater than Myself.” and “I go to the Father” , not “I go to Myself”.
Also, upon the cross, Jesus said, “Why has thou forsaken Me?”
He did not say, “Why have I forsaken Myself.”
So there is always a distinction in how He states His relationship with God, and I know that people then start talking about God in three Persons, etc, but that is where in the Quran it very clearly condemns the idea of three Gods and always, always places the emphasis on God alone, with His Messengers being Messengers, not incarnations of God.
That is my understanding. Logically, and theologically, it makes a lot of sense.

**Hi daler. This is a common misconception about the Trinity that Muslims often repeat over and over, as well as Jehovah’s Witnesses and a Hindu I had a conversation with. I, as a Christian, and any other Christian on this forum will say that we do not worship three separate gods. We worship One God. Jesus Christ says in John 14, “If you have seem Me, you have seen the Father.” and “I and the Father are one” in John 10. Some will understand this differently, I realize that.

In John 14, Christ is explaining to His disciples what is going to take place in the near future. He was in the midst of comforting them and promised the Holy Spirit would be given to them.

Christ who, though He was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied Himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. And being found in human form, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. Therefore God has highly exalted Him and bestowed on Him the name that is above every name, so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

I did not come up with that, St. Paul did, through the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.**

 

[MollyMac]

When God created all those things that did not exist into existence; God called them “Good”. Jesus say’s to the believer, “be perfect as your heavenly Father is perfect”. The Catholic saints and martyrs gave witness and proof that we are made perfect only in Christ. Man by himself falls and returns to dust.

Before the fall our first parents had the freewill to sin or not to sin. After the fall all humanity could do was sin, “thus the law”. Christ came to redeem our humanity so that through Christ we again are given the freedom to sin or not to sin, to chose death or chose life.

Our master Jesus Christ paved the path for all believers to follow His example; And He was crucified for His love, which Christians are to follow.

We Christians allow Muslims the freedom to believe and practice their religious practices in our societies. Muslim communities and Muslim controlled country’s will not allow any Muslim to convert or to receive Christian teachings, let alone to possess a Christian bible in a Muslim home or be punished and be put to death.

I agree with you that Christians are to love the Lord their God with all their heart soul and mind and their neighbors as themselves. Yet, we all fall short. We all fail. I also agree that Muslims should be given the freedom to believe what they choose no matter where they are living. I do realize as well that there is tremendous persecution for those who follow “the Way” in Muslim countries. We pray for them and our hearts break for them. Those working inside those countries trying to spread the Gospel of Jesus Christ are in terrible danger. We pray for them too.

 

[rinnie]

Just a little something for you to think about.

My God My God why have you forsaken me. See the first thing we are taught as Roman Catholics is don’t try to translate scripture. We do not have the mind of God. But we are also taught Jesus did not leave us orphans and left us the Church to teach and preach the true word of God.

Now here is a real EYE opener. It sure was for me. I asked my Dad when I was younger Dad why did Jesus do that. He smiled and said.

You must know scripture to translate it. He was speaking to the Jews Psalm 22 was written 1000 years before the death of Christ. The Jews knew scripture.

Now go back for yourself and read psalm 22 your eyes also will be opened in shock.

He is showing the Jews you indeed just crucified your own King. When you read it you will see they did exactly as God predicted.

IF you read psalm 21 it shows you shows us the King will triumph over his enemies. Which of course Jesus did, What looked to some as death, is known to the believers a deliver from death of the soul.

Jesus came to die, not for his sins he had none, he was perfect. He is God. He died to show us the great love he has for us. He came to this world in the name of the Son to die for us. To take away death by dying for our sins. But read the psalm and you will see he was indeed speaking to the Jews the chosen People who knew that O.T. scripture.

THis is much to take in I know. Please keep studying. I will continue to pray for the Holy Spirit to enter into your heart and show you much truth. God Bless.

 

[nmgauss]

Logically, and theologically, it makes a lot of sense.

Exactly where in the Bible did St. Paul say this?

 

[nmgauss]

There is certainly a lot of preaching going on in this thread. Excessive redundant verbiage just clutters up the text. Also, IMHO, preaching doesn’t accomplish anything except serve as an opportunity to vent one’s feelings such as one might expect from a performer on a stage. You are not contributing anything to me that is helpful in the dialogue by insisting that your way is the only way. This is a non-Catholic website and preaching to non-Catholics about how they are wrong leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

 

[Little_Star_1]

I’ve gotta totally reject the idea that there is more than one God being worshipped by any of the Prophets of God. That is, that regardless of what kind of words are being scribbled on somebody’s parchment, “It is so simple that a child can understand it.” applies. People tend to want to twist, contort, and complicate matters.
There is a manner of storytelling going on throughout all of human history, right? People pass these stories along orally, then finally they get written down, centuries, or maybe thousands of years later, and somebody spells it this way or that, and somebody else starts counterfeiting, and before you know it, people are arguing about it on the Internet!!!
Hello!! Anybody out there? There is one physical sun in our solar system. Call it whatever you want. We can point to it, right?
There is one God Who created the world, if one accepts the concept of monotheism, which Abraham taught, Moses taught, Jesus and Muhammad taught, and that the Bab and Baha’u’llah taught. We speak different dialects and languages, right? You say “sol”, I say “sun”. You say God, I say Great Spirit. What’s the problem here? Ain’t nobody got anything better to do? No wonder God gets mad at us from time to time, cause we keep wastin’ our time bickerin’ over stuff while we ought to be plowin’ the fields, plantin’ some corn, or helpin’ with the harvest, or something.
Peace, Shalom, etc, et al…

daler,

I think it could be a matter of looking the reason why God appeared to Abraham as opposed to why he appeared to Moses. With Abraham, He was starting a nation and, through that nation, He would reveal Himself. He was a loving Father. With Moses, a guy that stuttered and didn’t really believe he could lead anyone anywhere, God showed His warrior self so that Moses knew that God had all the power and might needed and Moses only had to do what was necessary in the physical plain to get the Pharoh talking and the Jewish people together. He showed Moses that He had His back and had all that was needed to get the job done. If you were to go to Karen Armstrong’s book, you will see that she, much later in the book, comes to this same conclusion. As a result of God showing all of the various aspects of Himself, the Jewish religion has twelve names for him.

She also writes much later in the book,that, whatever the history of the formation of the religions, for God to be truly understood by the individual, one has to go inside to the logos and reach out to the Father on a personal level, and then walk His Way.

 

[Little_Star_1]

Just a little something for you to think about.

My God My God why have you forsaken me. See the first thing we are taught as Roman Catholics is don’t try to translate scripture. We do not have the mind of God. But we are also taught Jesus did not leave us orphans and left us the Church to teach and preach the true word of God.

Now here is a real EYE opener. It sure was for me. I asked my Dad when I was younger Dad why did Jesus do that. He smiled and said.

You must know scripture to translate it. He was speaking to the Jews Psalm 22 was written 1000 years before the death of Christ. The Jews knew scripture.

Now go back for yourself and read psalm 22 your eyes also will be opened in shock.

He is showing the Jews you indeed just crucified your own King. When you read it you will see they did exactly as God predicted.

IF you read psalm 21 it shows you shows us the King will triumph over his enemies. Which of course Jesus did, What looked to some as death, is known to the believers a deliver from death of the soul.

Jesus came to die, not for his sins he had none, he was perfect. He is God. He died to show us the great love he has for us. He came to this world in the name of the Son to die for us. To take away death by dying for our sins. But read the psalm and you will see he was indeed speaking to the Jews the chosen People who knew that O.T. scripture.

THis is much to take in I know. Please keep studying. I will continue to pray for the Holy Spirit to enter into your heart and show you much truth. God Bless.

This is a really cool thing to know. I didn’t know this one. Thank you!