Jews--Christians--Muslims...same God?

[happyme]

…snip… We, as men, do not set the standards for God. God does not have to worry about being a nice guy. He is God you silly silly person. May He have mercy as you have committed blasphemy big time. You don’t like the the way of things under God? I tell you what, go create your own world.

Little Star

I love your common sense.

God the creator is not in need of His creation, we are in need of Him.

And the more I follow reading this thread, I understand why ?

( Go create your own world ) Priceless …ha ha

 

[happyme]

We are taught that Genesis makes Abraham the Father of many nations.

Muslims and Arabs trace their lineage through Ishamel. Is this an accurate statement?

Is it true the Quran states Abraham eschewed all religious labels but insisted on One important thing, His faith in the one trueGod.

We are taught Islam Judaism and Christianity are know as Arahamic Religions because they all trace their covenant made with Abraham.

THe Lord said to Abram Go forth from the land of your kinsfolk and from your fathers house to a land that I will show you.

I will make of you a great nation and I will bless you.
I will make your name great so that you will be a blessing.
I will BLESS those who BLESS you and curse those who curse you.

All the communities of the earth shall find BLESSING in you.

I truly believe that we both praise and honor the One True God. Although I cannot agree many of your teachings that came from Muhammad or that he is a prophet from God, I do believe that God has linked everyone together in someway that praises and honors his name.

And I believe it is in his living Church today that we shall all someday pray together to our one Kind. The one God Father Almighty.

I may be foolish but I believe Jews, Muslims and Christians will all come together someday and honor the One God all together. I pray for that day.

I feel you have a good understanding, in all you say above.

Now you say you can’t accept many of the teachings of Muhammad, my answer to that, is that is OK, you have free will, you may believe as you wish. The Jews say similar things regarding Jesus, and of course the Muslims say the same regarding Baha’u’llah of the Baha’i faith interesting is it not that we all agree to refuse to accept the next revealed religion of God.
But yes I join with you and pray for the day when we can all come together in love and the praise of God.

 

[daler]

I did your homework.

"Why do Christians and Muslims, traditionally, proselytize? Because they believe that in order to achieve salvation—that is, to make it to heaven—you have to believe in the same things they believe in.

Judaism doesn’t operate in the same way. According to the Talmud, righteous gentiles have a place in the World to Come (Sanhedrin 105a). "

In other words Non-Jews get just as much respect as Jews.

Thenl, “historically there’s been a significant connection between proselytizing and politics. New groups come to power and coerce the local people to join their religion. Among many other advantages, converting conquered lands to your religion makes them easier to govern. This accounts for much of the spread of Christianity and Islam.”

There you have it in a nutshell. The more people you can convert the more power your group has. Emperor Constantine saw this as a way to gain power over the people in his empire.

The website also describes Jewish attempts to proselytize during Roman times. The attempts were initially successful but then became false conversions when along came St. Paul and offered “eternal life”. This left a bad taste among the Rabbis which later caused them to discourage proselytizing.

 

[daler]

I did your homework.

"Why do Christians and Muslims, traditionally, proselytize? Because they believe that in order to achieve salvation—that is, to make it to heaven—you have to believe in the same things they believe in.

Originally, the Jewish people were told to spread the teachings of Moses, according to a doctor of theology I heard speak. That Christ told His followers to go out and spread the gospel is clear from the Bible. The Muslims, too, were told to teach others, by reason, not the sword.
In each case, humans being what they are, force was often used, as much in Christianity as Islam. This is not in keeping with the divine teachings.

 

[MollyMac]

Yes

So, what is the debate then? The three do not worship the same God. Two of them outright deny the Saviour. They are denying the one Mediator Jesus Christ, so I assume their prayers are in vain. They deny the death and resurrection of the Saviour… One of which denies His death on the cross all together and says another took His place (Muslim). I am not understanding where the debate is here. There are a plethora of passages in the Bible that say you cannot have eternal life without believing in Christ, if you could, Christ died for absolutely no reason and no one would be in hell. Christ talked more about hell and life apart from God than any other subject during His ministry on earth. You can’t have the Father with out the Son, “But everyone who denies me here on earth, I will also deny before my Father in heaven.” Jesus Himself said that in Matthew 10:33. “Who is the liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, he who denies the Father and the Son. No one who denies the Son has the Father. Whoever confesses the Son has the Father also.” (1 John 2: 22-23) Also, if Christ was not God the Son, then He is a liar and the gift of the Holy Spirit was never really given by Him. If Christ is a liar, then all the above verses are lies, but if Christ is perfect and sinless then all the above verses- along with the rest of what He said- are true and should be considered by those who do not believe and those who do believe.

(Side note: None of this is to say that God does not have it in His plan for this person (Muslim or Jew) to come to the full knowledge of Christ’s redemptive work during their lifetime. That is what we pray for as Christians.)

 

[MollyMac]

So, it is alright to kill Job’s children, because then they could go to heaven, and Job would learn a lesson. Sacrificing the children was a cruel act, and yet God allowed that to happen. Does that sound like something the Christian God would do?

It sounds like the same God that killed most of humanity in Noah’s time because he was unsatisfied with his creation. God does not sound like a nice guy.

God also sacrificed His Only Begotten Son, Jesus Christ on a cross for the sins of others. Our sins. Sins His perfect and righteous Son did not commit. It was a complete and perfect sacrifice and God ordained it from the beginning. Does not sound like God is a cruel God. Sounds like He is a loving God that saves. It makes me feel about as big as an ant, however. My sins killed Christ my Saviour.

You need to read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation and soak in the story of Redemption. Don’t take violent, so to speak, snippets out of the Bible and assume God just went around destroying people for silly reasons. There is purpose in everything He allows. He sacrificed His Son for the sins of others. Find out why.

 

[rinnie]

So, it is alright to kill Job’s children, because then they could go to heaven, and Job would learn a lesson. Sacrificing the children was a cruel act, and yet God allowed that to happen. Does that sound like something the Christian God would do?

It sounds like the same God that killed most of humanity in Noah’s time because he was unsatisfied with his creation. God does not sound like a nice guy.

You will never know the mind of God or why he does things or why he does not.

You have a human mind and not divine.

There are times God does step in for reasons only known to him.

Jobs kids were bad. IF you read the book of Job his children were pretty deep in sin. Just My way of showing you something a different way.

Life in this world is temporary, Life in the next is eternal.

Did you ever think that sometime people are weak in this world. I personally think about this for people who are young today and on drugs and are not strong enough to fight off the devil and somehow die in the process. No matter how hard they try cannot beat the addiction, Although deep inside are good hearted people. Seems the devil knows the weak at time, and I believe we all know people who are stuck in addiction, but have hearts of Gold.

This is just my thinking. Sometime I believe God knows that there are people who cannot fight off the devil at times, although they do have the free will from God to do it, They somehow want to be strong but cannot. Or maybe the addiction beats their faith.

Trying Jobs kids into this, and lost souls in this world, I think sometimes before God will let them do something to destroy their eternal soul forever, and let the devil have them, he does take them, into eternal life with him, Before they reach the point of no return.

Because to a Catholic and true believer in God, no matter how weak we are, he knows our heart. And knows we would give up forever in this life to have eternal life in him.

Job was indeed a good man, and God knew his love for his children, Job continued to pray for his Children, In the eyes of a Roman Catholic he indeed prayed them out of purgatory.

But when you have a faith as Job, its not God taking your kids out, its God taking your kids home to eternal life, while on the last day you will see them again.

While God gives us free will, he also plays a roll in our live all the time, to some that looks as a tradgedy, to others look as great mercy.

I do not expect you, or many others to understand what I am saying. Like Job its just takes much much Grace from God and faith.

But the bottom line is this, in todays world let me put it this way. To a parent who loves a Child that much, and knows the child cannot truly make it in this world for one reason or another, would rather see a Child die in the grace of God and have eternal life in him, then to continue to live in this world and lose eternal life with God and have Satan take over.

 

[rinnie]

I feel you have a good understanding, in all you say above.

Now you say you can’t accept many of the teachings of Muhammad, my answer to that, is that is OK, you have free will, you may believe as you wish. The Jews say similar things regarding Jesus, and of course the Muslims say the same regarding Baha’u’llah of the Baha’i faith interesting is it not that we all agree to refuse to accept the next revealed religion of God.
But yes I join with you and pray for the day when we can all come together in love and the praise of God.

Thank-you While you are very strong on your teachings and beliefs you can see that you have met your match we could say.

While I believe we can both agree we do not have the mind of God and understand why we both have such strong beliefs, its as they say, it is what it is.

To us in the RC faith we do not believe that we refuse to accept the next revealed religion of God,

We believe in the Holy Spirit and that it is leading our hearts and our Church today. And I believe as I have stated it is that same Holy Spirit that will lead all of us together someday.

See I believe the difference between us is this, I know there is nothing I can do or say to convince you to accept the Trinity as God in the 3 persons, any easier then you can try to convince me its false.

The one thing I was taught by Jesus is this, until it is given to anyone by the power of the Holy Spirit its not going to happen, Only God can do this.

The only thing I can do is share my faith, my teachings, etc. But it is the One True God who we both pray to that HAS to do the rest.

God can work through me, by maybe sharing his truth, and it may be a truth someday that he honors me with sharing with someone that can set off the light bulb as they say, and welcome the Holy Spirit to move and change them. But I have no power.

But as the Church teaches us, although we worship differently real different! The question is do we worship as in praying and giving hommage to the One True God, I believe so.

May God bless you and continue to guide us both until the day we can hopefully meet him face to face.

 

[Little_Star_1]

I don’t know how it could be blasphemy when the story is in the Bible.
" And, behold, there came a great wind from the wilderness, and smote the four corners of the house, and it fell upon the young men, and they are dead; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee."
I am not aware of the recognition in Christianity that God has a cruel streak. That is my chief point. If God can encourage the slaughter of the golden calf worshippers and can sponsor Joshua slaughtering the Canaanites, why can’t modern Christians accept that God can be a tyrant when He wants to?
Does one blaspheme God when his actions are described in the Bible?

I have tried to explain that the manner in which you are, if you are, reading the Bible is incorrect. It is not a novel, a biography, an academic book. Reading it should not be an academic endeavor or a way to pass time. It is to be a spiritual experience. If it is approached as such, then understanding behind the actions you speak of will come.

It is ironic that you first brought this up asking about Job. The lesson to learn from Job, whether you like it or not, is that God gives and God takes away. We can label God whatever we want in anger and spite. It will do us no good as we are like a gnat to His power and greatness. He created us, not the other way around. The Bible gives the illustration of a clay pot telling the clay maker he doesn’t like the way he has been fashioned. The answer is too bad.

I am sure you have heard it said that God’s ways are not our ways. We cannot imagine within our human minds the purposes for which God acts, whether we deem them good or bad. Man is not going to grow or draw nearer to God without hardship. That is the way we are. That is the choice that was made in the Garden of Eden. Man has asked to understand all. As God is the designer of man, God knows what it will take, each and everyone of us, to come to Him to understand His power.

So, when folks get wiped out, you will notice that something in the Bible will follow it that says something like “and you will know that I am God”. We don’t have to like His methods. We don’t have to understand the why behind His actions. It is of no use to protest, for He is God. So, yes it is blasphemy to speak as you did. By doing so, you indicated that you think you have a right to judge God. You placed yourself on a level equal to Him.

Our good cannot measure to His good. Our power does not come close to the true Power which is only in Him. The only way to come close to what is capable in a human to understand of God is to go to Him, pray to Him, ask Him to reveal Himself to you. Then, if He does, you might get a glimpse of His Majesty and Grace.

We have to get over the notion that God is concerned about our happiness. He is not a genie. His concern is for our souls and He acts to bring our souls back home to Him. If it means we have to get hit upside the head a thousand times over to see Him and fully appreciate and understand Him to the full human capacity of understanding, so it will be.
If you disapprove of His methods, that is just too bad. He is not trying to please you. He is elevating you. Once you are there, you will plainly see it was worth whatever it took to get you there. There is a play, the title of it is “Your Arms Are Too Short to Box with God”. You can try, but you wont like where it takes you.

No Christianity does not label God, nor any of the three religions, as having “cruel streak”. Most Christians understand that we cannot direct the actions of God and judging them will do us no good–because He is God. The Old Testament shows man’s journey from a pretty low minded creature to one that was deserving of having the Holy Spirit placed within us–a spark of the divine. It unites us with God. It does not make us God. It allows us to feel His presence around us at all times to aid us in moving closer to Him as we go through various challenges in life. Christians see the mercy and grace of God through the Holy Spirit. One has to take a journey within oneself to find this spark and to act in life to keep it lit. Each person is to be and can be transformed so that the idea of ever criticizing God wont come into your mind. But, even if you do, God certainly understands that we get frustrated. But, even our frustration will be seen as a blessing once we come in full understanding.

Oh, and by the way, the Bible tells what occurred. It does not judge God. You are doing that. Most people that are faithful to whatever their religion may be understand that God is God and we are merely His creation. They do not view the Bible as making critical statements about God in relaying what happened. They learn to value and respect the power of God from what they read.

 

[Little_Star_1]

If you aren’t okay with What Is, then you are stuck with that. Remember He said when asked who He was “I Am That Which I Am”. I have read that a more accurate translation of the original text would be “I Am Whatever I Want to Be”. Meditate on that for a while if you like. If not, well, you have your path to walk whether you realize it, like it, or not.

 

[happyme]

Thank-you While you are very strong on your teachings and beliefs you can see that you have met your match we could say.

While I believe we can both agree we do not have the mind of God and understand why we both have such strong beliefs, its as they say, it is what it is.

To us in the RC faith we do not believe that we refuse to accept the next revealed religion of God,

We believe in the Holy Spirit and that it is leading our hearts and our Church today. And I believe as I have stated it is that same Holy Spirit that will lead all of us together someday.

See I believe the difference between us is this, I know there is nothing I can do or say to convince you to accept the Trinity as God in the 3 persons, any easier then you can try to convince me its false.

The one thing I was taught by Jesus is this, until it is given to anyone by the power of the Holy Spirit its not going to happen, Only God can do this.

The only thing I can do is share my faith, my teachings, etc. But it is the One True God who we both pray to that HAS to do the rest.

God can work through me, by maybe sharing his truth, and it may be a truth someday that he honors me with sharing with someone that can set off the light bulb as they say, and welcome the Holy Spirit to move and change them. But I have no power.

But as the Church teaches us, although we worship differently real different! The question is do we worship as in praying and giving hommage to the One True God, I believe so.

May God bless you and continue to guide us both until the day we can hopefully meet him face to face.

Dear friend, no I do not think I have met my match as you say I am not in a match, I like you only pass on the knowledge of my religion.

You say:- To us in the RC faith we do not believe that we refuse to accept the next revealed religion of God,
My response:- Most obvious, but reinforces what I said concerning each religion, as the Jews refuse to accept that a new religion has come, is no different to your stand.

You say:- The one thing I was taught by Jesus is this, until it is given to anyone by the power of the Holy Spirit its not going to happen, Only God can do this.

My response:- Exactly as I also believe.

You say:- The only thing I can do is share my faith, my teachings, etc. But it is the One True God who we both pray to that HAS to do the rest.

My response:- I agree fully

You say:- But as the Church teaches us, although we worship differently real different! The question is do we worship as in praying and giving hommage to the One True God, I believe so.

May God bless you and continue to guide us both until the day we can hopefully meet him face to face.

My response:- Again I agree, but for me I understand we will never meet God, face to face, that can only happen when we meet a Manifestation of God, such as Jesus or Baha’u’llah, then yes we can say we have met God face to face. I applaud your loving kindness and also pray that we may be together one day, in the place of God’s acceptance of a life well done.

 

[nmgauss]

You will never know the mind of God or why he does things or why he does not.

You have a human mind and not divine.

There are times God does step in for reasons only known to him.

Jobs kids were bad. IF you read the book of Job his children were pretty deep in sin. Just My way of showing you something a different way.

This website discourages long sermons, but that is how you replied. To reiterate the same ideas over and over is counterproductive. You’ll be more effective with short cogent answers.

Nobody knows everything about God, and what many believe is ineffable.

As for Job’s kids, “Job said, It may be that my sons have sinned, and cursed God in their hearts. Thus did Job continually.”

The fact that Job surmised that his sons had sinned, but did not state that succinctly, is no justification for killing them. Also, why kill the servants? They did not sin.

Some latter day Jewish scholars have labeled Job a work of fiction. It is a good moral story. That’s all.

 

[nmgauss]

I have tried to explain that the manner in which you are, if you are, reading the Bible is incorrect. It is not a novel, a biography, an academic book. Reading it should not be an academic endeavor or a way to pass time. It is to be a spiritual experience. If it is approached as such, then understanding behind the actions you speak of will come.

I ask a few simple questions, and I get a long drawn-out sermon. This is not the place to preach. This website discourages excessive verbiage. You’ll be more effective with short answers.

Fundamentalists believe that every word in the Bible is to be believed exactly as it was written. You don’t appear to be in that camp. On the other hand, historians love to read the Bible as historical information. Are you discouraging this type of reading?

Or maybe you subscribe to the didactic approach, whereby through exegesis, a message is to be derived.

 

[daler]

Dear friend, no I do not think I have met my match as you say I am not in a match, I like you only pass on the knowledge of my religion.

There is no “match” between the Prophets of God. They do not compete with One another. They are Themselves each a Pen in the Hand of God, writing His script, from age to age, for the guidance of His one humanity.
God does not compete with God. His Prophets are not in competition. There is no match between Them, and therefore, there should be no match between believers. That diverts attention away from God and towards individual egos.

 

[Little_Star_1]

I ask a few simple questions, and I get a long drawn-out sermon. This is not the place to preach. This website discourages excessive verbiage. You’ll be more effective with short answers.

Fundamentalists believe that every word in the Bible is to be believed exactly as it was written. You don’t appear to be in that camp. On the other hand, historians love to read the Bible as historical information. Are you discouraging this type of reading?

Or maybe you subscribe to the didactic approach, whereby through exegesis, a message is to be derived.

It was not my intention to preach.

 

[Little_Star_1]

happyme;10867152:

Dear friend, no I do not think I have met my match as you say I am not in a match, I like you only pass on the knowledge of my religion.

There is no “match” between the Prophets of God. They do not compete with One another. They are Themselves each a Pen in the Hand of God, writing His script, from age to age, for the guidance of His one humanity.
God does not compete with God. His Prophets are not in competition. There is no match between Them, and therefore, there should be no match between believers. That diverts attention away from God and towards individual egos.

I believe you are quite right. It does divert attention away from God. It also diverts the individual’s attention away from where the real work is to be done and that is within him/herself.

 

[Little_Star_1]

It was not my intention to preach.

In your earlier post, you dressed up blasphemy as “simple questions”. It was to that I responded. If you don’t seek understanding, and you don’t appear to honestly want a genuine dialogue, why are you on here? This is a rhetorical question.

 

[nmgauss]

It was not my intention to preach.

You still have not addressed my questions. I am curious as to your orientation toward the Bible. That would explain a lot on the nature of your responses.

 

[Little_Star_1]

You still have not addressed my questions. I am curious as to your orientation toward the Bible. That would explain a lot on the nature of your responses.

At this point, and take this however you want, I have come to the conclusion that you do not seek to know my beliefs, or the slightest thing regarding Christianity. From one post to another, you make statements that are entirely disrespectful. So, whatever you may say you want to know, I don’t buy it.

Nor do I have the least interest in addressing whatever you may say you are curious about. I see nothing to be gained from it for either one of us. It would be a silly enterprise. Sometimes one just has to accept that some folks are lost in their own sauce and keep it in faith that they will work it out.

 

[Little_Star_1]

You still have not addressed my questions. I am curious as to your orientation toward the Bible. That would explain a lot on the nature of your responses.

You assume that I have an ego similar to your own. I do not.