Jews, Protestants and the Latin Mass

[hosemonkey]

Amen! If one has a cancer, is it “tolerant” to ignore it because treatment will cause pain? Or is it charitable to remove the cancer that life might be preserved. For those of you who believe that protestants are not heretics, please look up the definition of heresy.

St. Thomas (II-II:11:1) defines heresy: “a species of infidelity in men who, having professed the faith of Christ, corrupt its dogmas”. "The right Christian faith consists in giving one’s voluntary assent to Christ in all that truly belongs to His teaching. There are, therefore, two ways of deviating from Christianity: the one by refusing to believe in Christ Himself, which is the way of infidelity, common to Pagans and Jews; the other by restricting belief to certain points of Christ’s doctrine selected and fashioned at pleasure, which is the way of heretics.

 

[SFH]

Protestants ARE heretics!

Technically, you’re wrong. Protestants are not heretics because a heretic is someone who denies a Catholic dogma he once held. Since most Protestants never held the various Catholic dogmas at issue, they can’t be heretics. In short, Martin Luther can be a heretic because he renounced a Catholic dogma that he once held. Lutherans can’t.

Instead, it’s more propert to refer to Protestants as “separated Christians” or “Christians who do not share the fullness of the Catholic Faith with us.”

I think the big issue with the reintroduction of the Good Friday prayers is that some Catholics use them as an excuse to treat other religions and people with disrespect. You can be respectfull of another person’s religious beliefs without agreeing with them.

It seems to me that anyone who isn’t willing to pray that non-believers will be converted to his religion lacks the conviction of his own beliefs.

 

[francesco920]

OK, so I am sure that this post is going to start a war of words, but here goes. I am SO tired of hearing how mad the Jews and the Protestants are over the reinstitution of the Latin Mass. If you have not read any of this stuff, check this out.

The big deal is that during Holy Week, the Church offers prayers for the Jews and the Protestants. Somebody tell me why we should not do that? The Jews rejected Jesus as the messiah, and they continue to do so. Why in the world would we not want to pray for them? The Protestants broke from what we all believe is the One True Church that was established by Christ. Since that break, millions have been lead astray by the heresy of the Protestant faiths…so again, why would we not want to pray for them?

The bottom line in this writer’s opinion is that the objections to the Latin Mass and the prayers for these groups are founded in the rank political correctness movement of modern times. “Oh, you can’t possibly tell someone that they are wrong when they are wrong…how judgmental!” The bottom line here is that the Catholic Church is the one Church established by Christ who was the messiah. All of those out there that do not yet believe that this is true need our prayers in the worst way. In fact, I am going to pray for them now. I am sure that my actions will make some overzealous PC nut job out there furious.

People, accept it. We are a part of the One, True, Divinely Instituted, Church of the Lord Jesus Christ. This Church was ordained by the One Lord Jesus Christ to serve at the pleasure of the Lord until his return. I think anybody that has yet to realize that, or has fallen away from it, deserves our prayers.

Cheers!

B

Thank you for saying this!

It irritates me when I hear people talking about how horrible it is that we Catholics pray for the conversion of non-Catholics. But then again, what else is to be expected from the “dictatorship of relativism” that controls the West?

Perhaps we should add a prayer for the conversion of all relativists to the Good Friday prayers.

 

[az_4_faith]

I think the big issue with the reintroduction of the Good Friday prayers is that some Catholics use them as an excuse to treat other religions and people with disrespect. You can be respectfull of another person’s religious beliefs without agreeing with them.

What additional prayers are being reintroduced to the Good Friday Liturgy that aren’t already there? Are new prayers be added (reintroduced)?

I’m asking in all sincerity, because the current Missal calls for prayers for the Jewish people and others on Good Friday.

 

[Ravyn_Guiliani]

I just think all of us need to make sure that we don’t come across as superior, or correct, or anything of that nature. That is all.

and WHY would I choose to be one or the other if I did not believe one to be superior and correct and the other not? I chose to become Catholic because I do believe it is superior and correct–as a religion. People who are offended by my conviction need to get over it. It just looks like jealousy. I am not saying you can’t feel the same way about your religion–in fact if you don’t, you should! How can you dedicate your life to something you are not sure if it is the right place for you to be?
Ravyn

 

[StacieAdy]

and WHY would I choose to be one or the other if I did not believe one to be superior and correct and the other not? I chose to become Catholic because I do believe it is superior and correct–as a religion. People who are offended by my conviction need to get over it. It just looks like jealousy. I am not saying you can’t feel the same way about your religion–in fact if you don’t, you should! How can you dedicate your life to something you are not sure if it is the right place for you to be?
Ravyn

You are right, we should feel very strongly about our beliefs, especially when it comes to our Lord. But I do not think it is right to come across as superior. Why would you want to come across to someone in that way? How would that win anyone over to Catholicism, or any other religion? I am a Christian and you are a Christian. My beliefs are not better than yours, nor are your beliefs better than mine.

 

[hosemonkey]

You are right, we should feel very strongly about our beliefs, especially when it comes to our Lord. But I do not think it is right to come across as superior. Why would you want to come across to someone in that way? How would that win anyone over to Catholicism, or any other religion? I am a Christian and you are a Christian. My beliefs are not better than yours, nor are your beliefs better than mine.

Catholics call that the sin of “indifferentism.” One religion is just as good as another. If that were the case, why be anything at all, other than a “good” person?

 

[StacieAdy]

Catholics call that the sin of “indifferentism.” One religion is just as good as another. If that were the case, why be anything at all, other than a “good” person?

I am not referring to being a “good” person. I’m saying that Protestants and Catholics are both Christians. Are they not? I prefer to live my life as a Protestant, you prefer to live your life as a Catholic. In my book, that is all that separates us. If you feel that you are better than I am, then so be it.

 

[hosemonkey]

I am not referring to being a “good” person. I’m saying that Protestants and Catholics are both Christians. Are they not? I prefer to live my life as a Protestant, you prefer to live your life as a Catholic. In my book, that is all that separates us. If you feel that you are better than I am, then so be it.

Not “better” than you, the simple fact is, is that the Catholic Church possesses the fullness of Truth of the Gospel. Protestants possess elements of Truth, but not the truth completely.

 

[StacieAdy]

Not “better” than you, the simple fact is, is that the Catholic Church possesses the fullness of Truth of the Gospel. Protestants possess elements of Truth, but not the truth completely.

Okay then

 

[BelFarfalla]

Obviously Christ wasn’t a heretic. But He was labeled as such. You proved Publisher’s point.

Not at all. It is a fact of history that Protestentism is hetretical as people broke off from the Catholic Church and denounced their Catholic faith. That’s call heresy.

Why should it bother you? Shoot do you know how many times I’ve had protestants call me a devil, a satan worshiper a non-Christian because I’m Catholic? And not one bit of those accussations are founded in truth.

 

[StacieAdy]

Not at all. It is a fact of history that Protestentism is hetretical as people broke off from the Catholic Church and denounced their Catholic faith. That’s call heresy.

Why should it bother you? Shoot do you know how many times I’ve had protestants call me a devil, a satan worshiper a non-Christian because I’m Catholic? And not one bit of those accussations are founded in truth.

I personally feel that the word “heretic” is a slap in the face, when my whole life revolves around Christ. I understand that the Catholic stance is that Protestantism is heresy. I just think that Catholics, as Christians, should not be so free in crying “heresy” to the face of the very person whose conversion they pray for.

I am sorry that you have been called such terrible names by Protestants. I would be reacting just as strongly to a fellow Protestant calling you these things, as I am reacting to being called a heretic.

Although I told ComradeAndrei that I would work on being so defensive about that word, lol

 

[BelFarfalla]

I personally feel that the word “heretic” is a slap in the face, when my whole life revolves around Christ. I understand that the Catholic stance is that Protestantism is heresy. I just think that Catholics, as Christians, should not be so free in crying “heresy” to the face of the very person whose conversion they pray for.

I am sorry that you have been called such terrible names by Protestants. I would be reacting just as strongly to a fellow Protestant calling you these things, as I am reacting to being called a heretic.

Although I told ComradeAndrei that I would work on being so defensive about that word, lol

This forum is the only place I’ve ever hear Catholics call Protestants of today heretics. The only time I’ve ever heard the term used was in reference to historical or theological discussions. And I’ve been a Catholic for 57 years now. This type of talk is not common.

I’ve read it stated that Protestantism is a heresy of Catholicism. But most Protestants today never were Catholics so they as individuals cannot be heretics. There is some mention of this, that current day Protestants are not heretics, in the Catechism of the Catholic Church.
From my experience, most Protestants do not believe that Catholics are Christian. Last week one of our members here posted an article about a Baptist Church who is targeting Malta (I believe it was Malta) to convert the heathens to their brand of Christianity. Most of Malta is Catholic; they have been since the 1st century.

 

[StacieAdy]

This forum is the only place I’ve ever hear Catholics call Protestants of today heretics. The only time I’ve ever heard the term used was in reference to historical or theological discussions. And I’ve been a Catholic for 57 years now. This type of talk is not common.

I’ve read it stated that Protestantism is a heresy of Catholicism. But most Protestants today never were Catholics so they as individuals cannot be heretics. There is some mention of this, that current day Protestants are not heretics, in the Catechism of the Catholic Church.
From my experience, most Protestants do not believe that Catholics are Christian. Last week one of our members here posted an article about a Baptist Church who is targeting Malta (I believe it was Malta) to convert the heathens to their brand of Christianity. Most of Malta is Catholic; they have been since the 1st century.

Thank you for mentioning what you have here about Protestants being called heretics. I came to this forum in the first place, to learn more about Catholicism. It is here that I was first called a heretic, which took me by surprise. You have explained it well here though, and in a way which doesn’t make it “personal,” if you know what I mean.

That any Protestant would ever think that a Catholic is not a Christian is absolutely absurd to me. It bothers me. You are most definitely Christian, and beautifully so.

 

[O.S.Luke]

If folks who understand Latin want to celebrate a Latin mass, I think that’s fine. But if we wanted to use the most original languages that Christ used, why not have a Greek or Aramaic mass instead? Latin hasn’t been a native language anywhere in over 1000 years.

Plus, you have to fill in the articles yourself.

Of course, I’m sure the die hards live by the following: sola lingua bona est lingua mortua. (someone correct my Latin if I boo-booed).

O+

 

[Harpazo]

If folks who understand Latin want to celebrate a Latin mass, I think that’s fine. But if we wanted to use the most original languages that Christ used, why not have a Greek or Aramaic mass instead? Latin hasn’t been a native language anywhere in over 1000 years.

Plus, you have to fill in the articles yourself.

Of course, I’m sure the die hards live by the following: sola lingua bona est lingua mortua. (someone correct my Latin if I boo-booed).

O+

Conveniently, the Church offers the liturgy in those languages.

Pax Christi sit semper tecum
Andrew

 

[BelFarfalla]

If folks who understand Latin want to celebrate a Latin mass, I think that’s fine. But if we wanted to use the most original languages that Christ used, why not have a Greek or Aramaic mass instead? Latin hasn’t been a native language anywhere in over 1000 years.

Plus, you have to fill in the articles yourself.

Of course, I’m sure the die hards live by the following: sola lingua bona est lingua mortua. (someone correct my Latin if I boo-booed).

O+

I often attend masses given in Arabic.

And I love Latin mass. It is what I grew up with. I’ve have to brush up on my Latin though after all these years.